MG Metro into a Mini
Discussion
Hi folks, I now have an MG Metro engine and box in the space where the ol' 998 sat.
3 problems.
1) When i try to turn the crank with a socket,I can only get about 70degrees of rotation before it hits what seems like a dead stop. Its not stick valves 'cos the engine goes over TDC (there is a sticky valve but its not that). Current thought is a sticky cam follower, anyone any thoughts?
2) Clutch Slave Cylinder. On the old engine it bolted direct to the housing and worked horizontally on the lever. On the MG Metro there was a steel bracket and the slave cylinder operated in a downward motion at an angle of about 45 degrees. Do I need to change the end plate, lever or what gets swopped.
3) Electronic Dizzy, is it 12v, do I use a 12v coil? Its an old 74 car so was 12v originally I believe.
Just when I thought it was all coming together....
3 problems.
1) When i try to turn the crank with a socket,I can only get about 70degrees of rotation before it hits what seems like a dead stop. Its not stick valves 'cos the engine goes over TDC (there is a sticky valve but its not that). Current thought is a sticky cam follower, anyone any thoughts?
2) Clutch Slave Cylinder. On the old engine it bolted direct to the housing and worked horizontally on the lever. On the MG Metro there was a steel bracket and the slave cylinder operated in a downward motion at an angle of about 45 degrees. Do I need to change the end plate, lever or what gets swopped.
3) Electronic Dizzy, is it 12v, do I use a 12v coil? Its an old 74 car so was 12v originally I believe.
Just when I thought it was all coming together....
I once had a Metro unit lock up solid after I changed the clutch. The cause turned out to be the fact that I got one of the starter motor bolts mixed up with one of the clutch slave cylinder bolts, the starter bolt was about 3 mm longer and jammed the flywheel. You might just check that.
Cooperman said:
I once had a Metro unit lock up solid after I changed the clutch. The cause turned out to be the fact that I got one of the starter motor bolts mixed up with one of the clutch slave cylinder bolts, the starter bolt was about 3 mm longer and jammed the flywheel. You might just check that.
I bought new bolts which were too long and it did the same thing.
Paul V said:
I once had a Metro unit lock up solid after I changed the clutch. The cause turned out to be the fact that I got one of the starter motor bolts mixed up with one of the clutch slave cylinder bolts, the starter bolt was about 3 mm longer and jammed the flywheel. You might just check that.
I bought new bolts which were too long and it did the same thing.
It confused the hell out of me at the time!
You learn new things about Minis all the time and I'll admit I'm still learning after 43 years with the little b*****s.
Engine was reputedly running great before it was removed from the Metro but that looks to have been some time ago. Seller seems to think that its a follower stuck in its passage (ooh er missus)stopping the cam rotating. About the clutch, yes it could have been cable, no cylinder only a steel bracket with a hole in it. Hmmmm, is it a staight forward job to change to hydraulic, is changing the mini to cable a better bet or should I get him to take the engine back and get another considering the limited rotation of crank scenario... As if I didn't have enough little problems without this...
Tony H
Tony H
Tony, I've never had a follower stick and I don't quite see how this could be a problem.
However, take the rocker shaft off and see if all the pushrods are properly located in the followers - you sort of 'wiggle them about a bit' and you can tell. I suppose if one follower had come right out of its bore it would be a problem, but that would prevent the push rod from being installed. With the push rods out, try to turn the engine over again. If it is a follower problem I would suspect that a follower has broken up and is jamming the cam. Of course, with a 1275 block, as opposed to a 998 or a Cooper 'S', you have to take the engine out, turn it upside down and remove the cam for follower access.
If a follower has actually jammed in its bore it must be rusty - very unlikely.
When you turn the engine and it stops rotation, is it a hard metallic clonk when it stops or a slightly 'springy' feel to the spanner? This may help to identify what the obstruction to rotation is.
It does sound a bit like something in one of the bores like a broken valve head or bit of spark plug, but I guess you've considerd this. I reckon I would take the head off and have a look.
It's hard to think what else it could be - broken oil pump drive, broken distributor spindle, timing chain sprockets, but would any of these cause a 'jam'? I heve never had any of those happen. A broken crankshaft - now that's a long shot possibility.
I hope this helps
Peter
However, take the rocker shaft off and see if all the pushrods are properly located in the followers - you sort of 'wiggle them about a bit' and you can tell. I suppose if one follower had come right out of its bore it would be a problem, but that would prevent the push rod from being installed. With the push rods out, try to turn the engine over again. If it is a follower problem I would suspect that a follower has broken up and is jamming the cam. Of course, with a 1275 block, as opposed to a 998 or a Cooper 'S', you have to take the engine out, turn it upside down and remove the cam for follower access.
If a follower has actually jammed in its bore it must be rusty - very unlikely.
When you turn the engine and it stops rotation, is it a hard metallic clonk when it stops or a slightly 'springy' feel to the spanner? This may help to identify what the obstruction to rotation is.
It does sound a bit like something in one of the bores like a broken valve head or bit of spark plug, but I guess you've considerd this. I reckon I would take the head off and have a look.
It's hard to think what else it could be - broken oil pump drive, broken distributor spindle, timing chain sprockets, but would any of these cause a 'jam'? I heve never had any of those happen. A broken crankshaft - now that's a long shot possibility.
I hope this helps
Peter
Peter,
it's a fairly resounding stop but theres no clunk.
Engine seller thought that the follower had maybe just stuck (gummed up). rocker shaft is off, the pushrods are loose, the plugs are out. Two valves were stuck open, one still is. Loosened up the other tapping the spring with a socket and hammer to shock it free.
Seller is suggesting coming over to take head off. (engine, not mine). I don't want to disturb anything too much in case he says its me that's caused it
Looking like trying for a replacement doesn't it?
Tony H
it's a fairly resounding stop but theres no clunk.
Engine seller thought that the follower had maybe just stuck (gummed up). rocker shaft is off, the pushrods are loose, the plugs are out. Two valves were stuck open, one still is. Loosened up the other tapping the spring with a socket and hammer to shock it free.
Seller is suggesting coming over to take head off. (engine, not mine). I don't want to disturb anything too much in case he says its me that's caused it
Looking like trying for a replacement doesn't it?
Tony H
Hi Tony, it sounds a bit of a dodgy engine to me. Why are the valves stuck open? That could be why the engine won't turn over. I don't think a cam follower would stick in its seating and not free off when the engine was turnes, remember, you have a 2:1 mechanical advantage when you turn the cam sprocket compared to the crankshaft.
Where do you live. If it's close I'd be happy to come and have a look - I live near Biggleswade, Beds., just off the A1(M).
Thinking aloud here, so to speak, could it be something really stupid like a clutch diaphragm bolt come loose and hitting the web on the clutch cover?
I think with the problem you have I would not like to run the engine without first stripping it down for a good look inside, some new bearings, an oil pump, clutch plate and cam followers. Not too expensive compared with a major blow-up if all is not well. Around £150 should cover everything plus, maybe, £100 labour if you got the engine and box out yourself. It's about 4 to 6 hours work once the engine is out.
Peter
Where do you live. If it's close I'd be happy to come and have a look - I live near Biggleswade, Beds., just off the A1(M).
Thinking aloud here, so to speak, could it be something really stupid like a clutch diaphragm bolt come loose and hitting the web on the clutch cover?
I think with the problem you have I would not like to run the engine without first stripping it down for a good look inside, some new bearings, an oil pump, clutch plate and cam followers. Not too expensive compared with a major blow-up if all is not well. Around £150 should cover everything plus, maybe, £100 labour if you got the engine and box out yourself. It's about 4 to 6 hours work once the engine is out.
Peter
Thanks Peter but 10 mile north of Newcastle is a bit of a travel for you!!
The valves were stuck basically because they was gummed up or so I thought. Beginning to wonder how long the engine has stood however. It looked clean without leaks, a few cob webs and surface rust on the block. The oil in the sump was pretty good, black but not thick and horrible or white and watery. It was sold to me as a working, straight drop into the bay item not a strip down. Looks like time for it to be returned. It's sitting there in the engine bay without mounts or anything so it's a straight lift back out again.
Regards
Tony H
The valves were stuck basically because they was gummed up or so I thought. Beginning to wonder how long the engine has stood however. It looked clean without leaks, a few cob webs and surface rust on the block. The oil in the sump was pretty good, black but not thick and horrible or white and watery. It was sold to me as a working, straight drop into the bay item not a strip down. Looks like time for it to be returned. It's sitting there in the engine bay without mounts or anything so it's a straight lift back out again.
Regards
Tony H
Re the clutch: the bracket just hasa hole in it, no where for two slave cylinder bolts as far as I see so it could be cable which means a complete flywheel etc change as I see it. How complicated is that?
Techy question, the slave cylinder pushes away from the engine block, how does the cable system work, if it pulls the arm then its working backwards, does the cable go around the engine and "approach" from the inner wing? (Still haven't got to the bottom of the stuck engine yet, seller looking at it Thursday, will report back then. Thanks for all your help guys.
Tony H
Techy question, the slave cylinder pushes away from the engine block, how does the cable system work, if it pulls the arm then its working backwards, does the cable go around the engine and "approach" from the inner wing? (Still haven't got to the bottom of the stuck engine yet, seller looking at it Thursday, will report back then. Thanks for all your help guys.
Tony H
Sound like a cable clutch then, what happens is the cable attaches to the bracket on the flywheel housing, as the cable pulls in its surround pushes out and the arm forward.
You can just use the verto flywheel cover as used on the later mini with the bracket and a long clutch pipe, as said before you might need a new slave cylinder as well. You’ll only need to change the flywheel if you want to you the long arm clutch, of course you could get an ultralight flywheel, that’ll help it rev quicker
You can just use the verto flywheel cover as used on the later mini with the bracket and a long clutch pipe, as said before you might need a new slave cylinder as well. You’ll only need to change the flywheel if you want to you the long arm clutch, of course you could get an ultralight flywheel, that’ll help it rev quicker
Hi Paul,
I'm very close to there - about 15 minutes away, you should have called in for a cuppa. Of course, I'd have got you helping to build the Enduro car - it's all hands to the pumps now to get it on the road. The engine and box will be coming out next week for the complete rebuild to begin. Then the front sub-frame for some seam-welding and tie-bar bracket reinforcing, etc, then change the rack for a recon one, fit solid sub-frame mounts (aluminium ones), and so the work continues. There's a lot to do and I reckon this 1990 car will be virtually completely new by the time it's finished. It won't be worth what it's cost if you included labour, but my son, grandson and I do all the work ourselves, so it's a labour of love, I guess.
I'm very close to there - about 15 minutes away, you should have called in for a cuppa. Of course, I'd have got you helping to build the Enduro car - it's all hands to the pumps now to get it on the road. The engine and box will be coming out next week for the complete rebuild to begin. Then the front sub-frame for some seam-welding and tie-bar bracket reinforcing, etc, then change the rack for a recon one, fit solid sub-frame mounts (aluminium ones), and so the work continues. There's a lot to do and I reckon this 1990 car will be virtually completely new by the time it's finished. It won't be worth what it's cost if you included labour, but my son, grandson and I do all the work ourselves, so it's a labour of love, I guess.
Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff