ACPO's secret police having a ball

[Derek Smith]

I'm no big fan of ACPO. I see them as self serving and not answerable to the public. There is no watch committee, no local MP, and no real structure. Most of all it is not open.

Here is a take on their efforts:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbio...

Some form of national police force will arrive soon. We have an FBI clone already but this might well be expanded to include all, for instance, crime over a certain value. What we must ensure, if we can, is that it is not controlled by ACPO.

[davepoth]

Failing that, at least make ACPO a government agency open to public scrutiny, rather than the for-profit limited company it currently is.

[eldar]

I'd assumed ACPO was just a union and talking shop for the police macaroni. If it is as stated in the article, it has to go, the police must be accountable.

[davepoth]

And people thought police being in the Masons was dodgy...

[Mojooo]

Ummm. From what I understand the ACPO is just a meeting of the top coppers from the all forces to get together and agree on various thing such as best practice and consistent policy. In the abscence of a national police force it is definitley needed (IMO). I don't see how disbanding ACPO and not replacing it with something very similar can be good.

There are lots of 'Asssociations of' groups of various regional publically funded bodies - its not really unusual.

http://www.adass.org.uk/
http://www.actso.org.uk/

[Puggit]

Let me get this straight - it's the 2nd of Moonbat's blogs in a month that PH agree with?

[Derek Smith]

Mojooo said:

Ummm. From what I understand the ACPO is just a meeting of the top coppers from the all forces to get together and agree on various thing such as best practice and consistent policy. In the abscence of a national police force it is definitley needed (IMO). I don't see how disbanding ACPO and not replacing it with something very similar can be good.

There are lots of 'Asssociations of' groups of various regional publically funded bodies - its not really unusual.

http://www.adass.org.uk/
http://www.actso.org.uk/

ACPO is a limited company that is funded by taxpayes in various ways. It is, in effect, a quango. It does indeed make decisions that affect the country as a whole. If their only function was to have a few freebies and pose for the cameas then no harm done, but they make decisions which change the way this country is policed, yet they have no remit to do so, there is no book of rules, there are no limits.

Best practice is covered by HO Circulars as is consistent policy. On occasion ACPO has challenged HO policy and has briefed the government yet this is an authority that they have assumed.

Replace it by all means but with something that has a clear policy, limits to what it can do and open meetings so that we know what they are doing.

ACPO is populated in the main by those who will go no further. If a CC has an immediate underling that he finds weird and peculiar they can be given the ACPO remit where they can muddle away a few years and not have any influence on anything.

Brustrom anyone?

[Mojooo]

Derek Smith said:

ACPO is a limited company that is funded by taxpayes in various ways. It is, in effect, a quango. It does indeed make decisions that affect the country as a whole. If their only function was to have a few freebies and pose for the cameas then no harm done, but they make decisions which change the way this country is policed, yet they have no remit to do so, there is no book of rules, there are no limits.

Best practice is covered by HO Circulars as is consistent policy. On occasion ACPO has challenged HO policy and has briefed the government yet this is an authority that they have assumed.

Replace it by all means but with something that has a clear policy, limits to what it can do and open meetings so that we know what they are doing.

ACPO is populated in the main by those who will go no further. If a CC has an immediate underling that he finds weird and peculiar they can be given the ACPO remit where they can muddle away a few years and not have any influence on anything.

Brustrom anyone?

I wont claim to know it all about ACPO - infact I know very little apart from the basic concept of what they are set up to do.

I know of a similar style thing where 20 odd specific sections of local authorities have formed together to form a Ltd company - this allows them to act as a big unit and make savings on purchases as well as group together and ensure best practice etc etc

The big flaw, probably like the Police, is that there is not 'official' link between them all because they are all local authority based they yet should really be working together and communicating outside of their council boundaries.

Yes ACPO is unooficial but that doesnt mean they shouldnt band together and challenge HO policy - after all they are the ones doing the Policing and should know best, right?

I agree though that it probably should be replaced by something official, no doubt borne out of a gaping hole.

[Derek Smith]

Mojooo said:

after all they are the ones doing the Policing and should know best, right?

Ah, bless.

[Mojooo]

Derek Smith said:

Ah, bless.

Its the Govts new line!


Although in all seriousness I imagine for a lot of issues they ARE the best people to know (that is to say the inddividual police authorities, not necessarily the actual people in the ACPO, but no doubt they are brief by other people on their staff).

[davepoth]

Mojooo said:

Yes ACPO is unooficial but that doesnt mean they shouldnt band together and challenge HO policy - after all they are the ones doing the Policing and should know best, right?

I agree though that it probably should be replaced by something official, no doubt borne out of a gaping hole.

ACPO, despite being hugely influential in a number of national security, justice, and civil liberties areas, is exempt from public scrutiny under FOI rules because it is a limited company.

ACPO has a subsidiary that profits from providing prosecution expert witnesses for speeding trials.

ACPO isn't the staff association for Chief Police Officers. That's the Chief Police Officer's Staff Association (CPOSA).

ACPO manages the Police National Computer.

Up until the recent problems with Mark Paul, the government had "subcontracted" several domestic extremism roles out to ACPO.

[Derek Smith]

Mojooo said:

Its the Govts new line!


Although in all seriousness I imagine for a lot of issues they ARE the best people to know (that is to say the inddividual police authorities, not necessarily the actual people in the ACPO, but no doubt they are brief by other people on their staff).

ACPO are managers. They are not police officers. Whilst they all started at the bottom at one time or another, most would have achieved inspector rank at around 6 years. They might know something about policing in their day but little of the current problem.

It is like doctors and hospital managers. Managers will only tell you what is good for managing, nothing about how to take out a gall bladder. Whether practising doctors are the best to decide on overall policy is a moot point.

To get to ACPO level you must be, to a certain extent at least, a career police officer. Their main intent is to get promoted, seekers of power.

They should run police forces under the limits set by the HO. If the HO needs assistance then they can seek the advice of individual senior officers of forces.

A political organisation of police officers is dangerous. Police cannot be above politics but they should be to one side. They should certainly not take an active part. A police lobby, which is what ACPO is, gives authority to people who are not voted in but have considerable power individually. As a group they are a power block.

At the moment forces are divided and senior officers have responsibility for their area.