Harrier take-offs

[muppetdave]

I'm just watching last night's Ark Royal, and watching the RAF Harriers leaving the ship. Upon take-off, there's plenty of 'exhaust' coming out, but it looks to be coming out nearly vertically downwards. Is it purely exhaust gas and that's the way it's directed generally, or do they use their thrusters in a moving take-off to get additional lift (they were saying that as the planes were heading back to Cottesmore they were full to brimming with fuel and needed all the help they could get).

[Simpo Two]

muppetdave said:

do they use their thrusters in a moving take-off to get additional lift

Yes, they need a bit of extra grunt to keep them up while they attain enough airspeed to climb in the conventional manner.

[muppetdave]

Thought so, they'd turned the ship in to the wind, said they had 30 knots of wind directly down the flight-deck, but needed everything they could!

[Turbodiesel1690]

We don't have Harriers any more do we?

[Eric Mc]

Turbodiesel1690 said:

We don't have Harriers any more do we?

Nope - all gone.

Harriers generally used rolling take offs with an element of downward vectoring.

[Hooli]

[quote=Eric Mc

Harriers generally used rolling take offs with an element of downward vectoring.
[/quote]

Which on Ark Royal I think meant vectored forwards for acceleration along the deck then aimed down to get a bigger 'jump' off the ski-jump.

[Glosphil]

Hooli said:

Which on Ark Royal I think meant vectored forwards for acceleration along the deck then aimed down to get a bigger 'jump' off the ski-jump.

They took off backwards??? Thrust vectored forwards = motion in reverse direction.

[PaulG40]

They would be using water to give them the extra umpth, hence abit blacker exhaust from the 'hot' nozzle. RCS would be open too if the nozzles were down.

[Hooli]

Glosphil said:

They took off backwards??? Thrust vectored forwards = motion in reverse direction.

Surprise tactics


Or I just should have typed 'vectored for forward flight'.

[Simpo Two]

Hooli said:

Surprise tactics

The 'VIFFing' of Falklands days. Suddenly Johnny Spic is in front not behind... though whether it led to any victories I don't know.

[Hooli]

Simpo Two said:

The 'VIFFing' of Falklands days. Suddenly Johnny Spic is in front not behind... though whether it led to any victories I don't know.

Indeed, I remember hearing about that as a kid watching it all on the telly.

[Simpo Two]

The only Harriers lost were to ground fire. It calls to mind this great bit of dialogue after two pilots met again - one had been shot down over land, the other over the sea:

Pilot 1: 'I understand you've been for a dip?'
Pilot 2: 'I hear you've had a few days off in the country'

[Tango13]

A Sea Harrier was also lost over the side of the Invincible due to a slippery deck and a hard turn in rough weather, the pilot ejected safely and was recovered on board without injuries.

The Captain of the Invincible, JJ Black was later told by another SHAR pilot...

"That'll teach you to drive the ship like a fking speedboat Sir!"

[tank slapper]

Hooli said:

Simpo Two said:

The 'VIFFing' of Falklands days. Suddenly Johnny Spic is in front not behind... though whether it led to any victories I don't know.

Indeed, I remember hearing about that as a kid watching it all on the telly.

I don't think that tactic was ever used in practice, and I'm not sure it ever would except as a last ditch effort.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

tank slapper said:

I don't think that tactic was ever used in practice, and I'm not sure it ever would except as a last ditch effort.

According to my friends in the 'Bona Mate' world it wasn't. VIFFing, although much was made about by the Media, is very much a last ditch manoeuvre because it causes the a/c to very rapidly run out of energy.

The last place you want to be in a 'kife-fight in a telephone box' is out of energy and out of ideas because that's a sure fire way of getting yourself shot down!