Advice for a newbie going to BTCC This sun...
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm off to the touring cars this Sunday and just wondered if anyone had any settings/advise for me to start with...
I've got a 500d and the longest lens I've got is the 55-250mm Canon IS jobbie (its the best lens I can afford at the minute and its just arrived so please dont suggest I upgrade quite yet!!!)
I guess first question is do I shoot just in jpef for speed or use raw for more editing options after?
I'm after the sharp car / blured background effect should I be in Tv mode for this? What's the best shutter speed to start with?
Cheers in advance... I don't mind having a play when I'm there just want to make sure I'm starting in the right ballpark!
All other suggestions much appreciated - hopefully will post up some gud'ns Sunday night!
I'm off to the touring cars this Sunday and just wondered if anyone had any settings/advise for me to start with...
I've got a 500d and the longest lens I've got is the 55-250mm Canon IS jobbie (its the best lens I can afford at the minute and its just arrived so please dont suggest I upgrade quite yet!!!)
I guess first question is do I shoot just in jpef for speed or use raw for more editing options after?
I'm after the sharp car / blured background effect should I be in Tv mode for this? What's the best shutter speed to start with?
Cheers in advance... I don't mind having a play when I'm there just want to make sure I'm starting in the right ballpark!
All other suggestions much appreciated - hopefully will post up some gud'ns Sunday night!
AndyT350 said:
Hi All,
I'm off to the touring cars this Sunday and just wondered if anyone had any settings/advise for me to start with...
I've got a 500d and the longest lens I've got is the 55-250mm Canon IS jobbie (its the best lens I can afford at the minute and its just arrived so please dont suggest I upgrade quite yet!!!)
I guess first question is do I shoot just in jpef for speed or use raw for more editing options after?
I'm after the sharp car / blured background effect should I be in Tv mode for this? What's the best shutter speed to start with?
Cheers in advance... I don't mind having a play when I'm there just want to make sure I'm starting in the right ballpark!
All other suggestions much appreciated - hopefully will post up some gud'ns Sunday night!
There are many on here that know better than me but here's my 2p worth: I would go with jpeg and shutter priority with the shutter at around 1/80th for a nice blur on the tracking shots. Try and find a spot with the sun behind you and an uncluttered background - good luck I'm off to the touring cars this Sunday and just wondered if anyone had any settings/advise for me to start with...
I've got a 500d and the longest lens I've got is the 55-250mm Canon IS jobbie (its the best lens I can afford at the minute and its just arrived so please dont suggest I upgrade quite yet!!!)
I guess first question is do I shoot just in jpef for speed or use raw for more editing options after?
I'm after the sharp car / blured background effect should I be in Tv mode for this? What's the best shutter speed to start with?
Cheers in advance... I don't mind having a play when I'm there just want to make sure I'm starting in the right ballpark!
All other suggestions much appreciated - hopefully will post up some gud'ns Sunday night!
If you haven't got much experience of panning shots, I would recommend starting around 1/160th or even 1/200th to start with, and go for shower shutter speeds once you get the hang of it. Starting at 1/80th, you are likely to have a keeper rate of less than 1 in 5 if you want the car to be sharp.
To follow on from DD's excellent advice, it is much easier to get good panning shots with the car coming straight past you from left to right or vice versa than if they're coming towards you. As your panning technique gets better you can drop the shutter speed to get a creamier background.
Also set your autofocus to AI Servo and adjust your ISO till you're shooting with a wide aperature, f4 or 5.6 on your 55-250. Try turning IS off too as that lens only has one mode and panning confuses it.
Its a belting little lens though, I shot Le Mans with it last year, preferring it to the 100-400 I took which was a bit unweildy.
Also set your autofocus to AI Servo and adjust your ISO till you're shooting with a wide aperature, f4 or 5.6 on your 55-250. Try turning IS off too as that lens only has one mode and panning confuses it.
Its a belting little lens though, I shot Le Mans with it last year, preferring it to the 100-400 I took which was a bit unweildy.
I'd suggest you set centre focus point and AI Servo. RAW (every time!) and manual. Start to track the car from quite a way off, half-depressing the shutter to get focus lock (sorry if this is a bit obvious) and get around three shots in drive mode as it passes. Doing too many will fill up your buffer and the camera may stop while it writes the files, making you miss the next car.
You'll need to experiment with shutter speed - it'll depend on how far away you are, but as the others have said, try between 1/80 and 1/200.
Be prepared to end up with a load of junk for your first attempt, but don't worry about it - we've all been there! Looking at the shooting data afterwards will tell you what settings worked best.
You'll need to experiment with shutter speed - it'll depend on how far away you are, but as the others have said, try between 1/80 and 1/200.
Be prepared to end up with a load of junk for your first attempt, but don't worry about it - we've all been there! Looking at the shooting data afterwards will tell you what settings worked best.
As others have said, your starting point should be around 1/200th, Shutter Priority (TV), AI Servo. Choose your focus point to suit the shot i.e bottom centre if you want the car lower in the frame etc. Manual isn't really worth the bother for Motorsport unless the cars are running with lights on.
Don't fall into the trap of shooting hundreds of side-on pans, you'll just bore yourself to death going through them later
1/200th
1/160th
1/80th
Use the warm up laps to practice following the cars without actually shooting anything. That should get you in the swing of things for when the action kicks off.
Don't fall into the trap of shooting hundreds of side-on pans, you'll just bore yourself to death going through them later
1/200th
1/160th
1/80th
Use the warm up laps to practice following the cars without actually shooting anything. That should get you in the swing of things for when the action kicks off.
Lots of good advice here
In addition to the points already made...
The speed of your shutter that gives you the effect you want will also depend on the speed of the cars - if you are at a hairpin then 1/200th will be close to stopping the motion, however halfway down a main straight you will get significant amounts of blur for your 1/200th as you are panning much quicker.
I'd get some sharp shots before you think about slowing the shutter to create more motion in the cars, always good to get some decent sharp images 'in the bag' before trying to get some art
(..going home with no decent shots due to a bullish attitude towards shutter speeds isn't fun - done that once, never again)
Panning while 'dragging' the shutter is mainly about technique though, you need smooth motion when moving the camera. Make sure you aren't all contorted when you want to take the shot - there's more chance you will shake the camera by mistake. Its all about practice
Hope this helps
In addition to the points already made...
The speed of your shutter that gives you the effect you want will also depend on the speed of the cars - if you are at a hairpin then 1/200th will be close to stopping the motion, however halfway down a main straight you will get significant amounts of blur for your 1/200th as you are panning much quicker.
I'd get some sharp shots before you think about slowing the shutter to create more motion in the cars, always good to get some decent sharp images 'in the bag' before trying to get some art
(..going home with no decent shots due to a bullish attitude towards shutter speeds isn't fun - done that once, never again
)Panning while 'dragging' the shutter is mainly about technique though, you need smooth motion when moving the camera. Make sure you aren't all contorted when you want to take the shot - there's more chance you will shake the camera by mistake. Its all about practice
Hope this helps
I would suggest practising panning out on the street first, or get a mate to go with you somewhere and get shots of him driving his car?
As for shutter speed, I always shoot with the camera on manual, adjusting the ISO and f number to suit. It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it it will become second nature.
Enjoy experimenting with shutter speeds myself, here's a few examples to see what kind of effect you prefer (all shot hand held).
Slow shutter speed for side on panning shots.
f10, ISO100, 1/125th sec:
f13, ISO100, 1/50th sec:
f20, ISO100, 1/20th sec:
Medium/fast'ish shutter speed for head on shots
f8, ISO320, 1/500th sec:
f5.6, ISO320, 1/400th sec:
f8, ISO160, 1/250th sec:
f11, ISO100, 1/160th sec:
A lot depends on weather/available light though, it's good fun practising though
As for shutter speed, I always shoot with the camera on manual, adjusting the ISO and f number to suit. It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it it will become second nature.
Enjoy experimenting with shutter speeds myself, here's a few examples to see what kind of effect you prefer (all shot hand held).
Slow shutter speed for side on panning shots.
f10, ISO100, 1/125th sec:
f13, ISO100, 1/50th sec:
f20, ISO100, 1/20th sec:
Medium/fast'ish shutter speed for head on shots
f8, ISO320, 1/500th sec:
f5.6, ISO320, 1/400th sec:
f8, ISO160, 1/250th sec:
f11, ISO100, 1/160th sec:
A lot depends on weather/available light though, it's good fun practising though
Much will depend on what's open and where you can get to. And what the weather is like.
If you want to get some banker shots start off at 1/320th or 1/250th (or even higher) to get some sharp cars (if panning - higher than that if they are coming at you) and once you are in the 'swing' so to speak (and have a few shots you can enjoy come what may!) drop down to to 1/160th. Maybe 1/125th if you start to feel comfortable. By all means try the slower speeds as well but you may not gain much.
At Donington I would recommend the inside of Redgate as a good starting point - usually. The outside type wall has been moved back over the winter which will assist a de-focused background , the inside is (or was a coupld of weeks ago, realtivley debris fence free with a good opportuniity (even through soem debris fencing) of picking up the cars early on the straight and following then into the corner. The corner is a fairly constant radius and so car speed onto and past the apex is fairly consistent - which helps get into the swing of panning without having to also deal with variable velocities plus the focus system is working at a fairly constant distance whic it will like. Car speed is quite sensible there. Not too fast and not too slow.
When you get bored with that try moving down the hill towards the Craner Curves where, again, there should be opportunities without fences in the way. It's a little trickier panning there but the cars should be at a reasonable distance so you can avoid the worst of the slow approach, rush past, slow departure that is a challenge with anything passing close by on a straight. The lens should cope very well with the distances.
If it is accessible the section at the bottom of the hill there is good viewing and often good action but realistically a little far from the action for most lenses.
I suspect that the other infield options that might be accessible will not be great for panning as such but I'm told that the new esses is now reachable as a spectator. Not sure how easy it is to get a decent angle and avoid the fencing but it's probably worth investigating.
On the outside ... I'll assume the outside is open, BTCC being a big meeting, although there is still development work likely to be in progress. Despite the development work moving the tyre barriers back there are still some good spots at Redgate that your lens should be OK with BUT you will need to get as close tot eh fence as possible and panning is not really an option. The exceptions, potentially, are near the DPRA Club enclosure and down the hill from there where at certain points if you get up onto the banking and the cars are on the right part of the track you can (or certainly could) get a reasonable pan shot that only included the top bracing wires of the fencing. I have not tried it since the new fencing has been installed but it could still be an option. The downside would be if the new fencing is higher and, being new and bright, if it's a very sunny day. The outside at The Old Hairpin also has useful banking but you are some way back from the track by the time you clear the fencing and work there over the winter means it may be a tad muddy - or even not usable if it is being re-grassed.
Good viewing after that but not such good photo opportunities. As far as I know the tunnels will still be closed so I doubt you will be able to 'do a circuit'.
In terms of light - The inside at Redgate is pretty viable most of the day but better in the morning and up until about mid-afternoon depending on the weather. Further down the hill on the inside is probably OK at just about any time as you are basically faces north.
The esses, given bright sunshine, are likely at their best later in the day although very early might be good too.
On the outside of that end of the circuit you are, fundamentally, pointing towards the sun most of the day unless you are right up at the top of Redgate. By mid day, if you are taking pan shots from the outside, right to left, as the cars head away from Redgate and down the hill, you will be fine once the cars are level with you or have passed you. Before that, on a bright day, the reflections can sometimes be a little overpowering.
If all else fails, sod the track action - you have a great lens there for doing some celebrity shots in the paddock!
What else.
AI-Servo mode recommended unless you are trying for something arty. Partial metering. I don't think you will have spot metering but if you do and you want some 'interesting' results, try it. ISO - whatever you need for the conditions but pronbably not higher than 800 for any reason unless it's very dull. If you are doing slow speed panning, as discussed above, I doubt you would need to go to ISO800 unless it gets dark.
If you want something really sharp with frozen action start at 1/1000th and head up from there.
If you want to get some banker shots start off at 1/320th or 1/250th (or even higher) to get some sharp cars (if panning - higher than that if they are coming at you) and once you are in the 'swing' so to speak (and have a few shots you can enjoy come what may!) drop down to to 1/160th. Maybe 1/125th if you start to feel comfortable. By all means try the slower speeds as well but you may not gain much.
At Donington I would recommend the inside of Redgate as a good starting point - usually. The outside type wall has been moved back over the winter which will assist a de-focused background , the inside is (or was a coupld of weeks ago, realtivley debris fence free with a good opportuniity (even through soem debris fencing) of picking up the cars early on the straight and following then into the corner. The corner is a fairly constant radius and so car speed onto and past the apex is fairly consistent - which helps get into the swing of panning without having to also deal with variable velocities plus the focus system is working at a fairly constant distance whic it will like. Car speed is quite sensible there. Not too fast and not too slow.
When you get bored with that try moving down the hill towards the Craner Curves where, again, there should be opportunities without fences in the way. It's a little trickier panning there but the cars should be at a reasonable distance so you can avoid the worst of the slow approach, rush past, slow departure that is a challenge with anything passing close by on a straight. The lens should cope very well with the distances.
If it is accessible the section at the bottom of the hill there is good viewing and often good action but realistically a little far from the action for most lenses.
I suspect that the other infield options that might be accessible will not be great for panning as such but I'm told that the new esses is now reachable as a spectator. Not sure how easy it is to get a decent angle and avoid the fencing but it's probably worth investigating.
On the outside ... I'll assume the outside is open, BTCC being a big meeting, although there is still development work likely to be in progress. Despite the development work moving the tyre barriers back there are still some good spots at Redgate that your lens should be OK with BUT you will need to get as close tot eh fence as possible and panning is not really an option. The exceptions, potentially, are near the DPRA Club enclosure and down the hill from there where at certain points if you get up onto the banking and the cars are on the right part of the track you can (or certainly could) get a reasonable pan shot that only included the top bracing wires of the fencing. I have not tried it since the new fencing has been installed but it could still be an option. The downside would be if the new fencing is higher and, being new and bright, if it's a very sunny day. The outside at The Old Hairpin also has useful banking but you are some way back from the track by the time you clear the fencing and work there over the winter means it may be a tad muddy - or even not usable if it is being re-grassed.
Good viewing after that but not such good photo opportunities. As far as I know the tunnels will still be closed so I doubt you will be able to 'do a circuit'.
In terms of light - The inside at Redgate is pretty viable most of the day but better in the morning and up until about mid-afternoon depending on the weather. Further down the hill on the inside is probably OK at just about any time as you are basically faces north.
The esses, given bright sunshine, are likely at their best later in the day although very early might be good too.
On the outside of that end of the circuit you are, fundamentally, pointing towards the sun most of the day unless you are right up at the top of Redgate. By mid day, if you are taking pan shots from the outside, right to left, as the cars head away from Redgate and down the hill, you will be fine once the cars are level with you or have passed you. Before that, on a bright day, the reflections can sometimes be a little overpowering.
If all else fails, sod the track action - you have a great lens there for doing some celebrity shots in the paddock!
What else.
AI-Servo mode recommended unless you are trying for something arty. Partial metering. I don't think you will have spot metering but if you do and you want some 'interesting' results, try it. ISO - whatever you need for the conditions but pronbably not higher than 800 for any reason unless it's very dull. If you are doing slow speed panning, as discussed above, I doubt you would need to go to ISO800 unless it gets dark.
If you want something really sharp with frozen action start at 1/1000th and head up from there.
Unless an awaful lot has changed since November there might not be access to the inside at all.
I was a marshal at the end of season race and the spectators were restricted to the outside of Redgate down to Starkys. We had access through the construction fence to get up to Coppice. We were very alone! There wasnt access to the inside as it contained an unplanned lake in a building site.
I went in September as a snapper and the old hairpin is pretty much your only chance if things havent changed. Otherwise it is best of luck trying to pan through a fence at Redgate. For that you will need at least 300mm on a APC sensor.
You can get a shot of Redgate from the bank at Hollywood but again you need lots of lens. I had a 1.4 converter on a 300mm F2.8 to shoot over the wire.
I hope someone will come along and tell me it is all back to the way it was as to be honest it was all a bit sad at the end of last year.
I was a marshal at the end of season race and the spectators were restricted to the outside of Redgate down to Starkys. We had access through the construction fence to get up to Coppice. We were very alone! There wasnt access to the inside as it contained an unplanned lake in a building site.
I went in September as a snapper and the old hairpin is pretty much your only chance if things havent changed. Otherwise it is best of luck trying to pan through a fence at Redgate. For that you will need at least 300mm on a APC sensor.
You can get a shot of Redgate from the bank at Hollywood but again you need lots of lens. I had a 1.4 converter on a 300mm F2.8 to shoot over the wire.
I hope someone will come along and tell me it is all back to the way it was as to be honest it was all a bit sad at the end of last year.
grumpy bear said:
Unless an awaful lot has changed since November there might not be access to the inside at all.
I was a marshal at the end of season race and the spectators were restricted to the outside of Redgate down to Starkys. We had access through the construction fence to get up to Coppice. We were very alone! There wasnt access to the inside as it contained an unplanned lake in a building site.
I went in September as a snapper and the old hairpin is pretty much your only chance if things havent changed. Otherwise it is best of luck trying to pan through a fence at Redgate. For that you will need at least 300mm on a APC sensor.
You can get a shot of Redgate from the bank at Hollywood but again you need lots of lens. I had a 1.4 converter on a 300mm F2.8 to shoot over the wire.
I hope someone will come along and tell me it is all back to the way it was as to be honest it was all a bit sad at the end of last year.
For recent large meetings, notably the WSB a couple of weeks ago, the main public entrance was at the gate next to the Exhibition Centre and used the tunnel through to the infield but only the Pits/Craner end of the infield it likely to be open for access by the public unless something has changed. I was a marshal at the end of season race and the spectators were restricted to the outside of Redgate down to Starkys. We had access through the construction fence to get up to Coppice. We were very alone! There wasnt access to the inside as it contained an unplanned lake in a building site.
I went in September as a snapper and the old hairpin is pretty much your only chance if things havent changed. Otherwise it is best of luck trying to pan through a fence at Redgate. For that you will need at least 300mm on a APC sensor.
You can get a shot of Redgate from the bank at Hollywood but again you need lots of lens. I had a 1.4 converter on a 300mm F2.8 to shoot over the wire.
I hope someone will come along and tell me it is all back to the way it was as to be honest it was all a bit sad at the end of last year.
At the HSCC meeting the week before the infield could be accessed through the paddock tunnel. However the outer section, with work still going in in that area preping for the WSB meeting, was closed to the public unless a member of DPRAC wanting access to the club house.
Not sure what the arrsangements were for the MSVR meeting last weekend. Must be some photos around somewhere.
I would imagine that BTCC will have similar arrangements to WSB.
LongQ's advice for Donny a few posts up is spot-on. If you can get there the inside of Redgate is perfect for novice panning shots - you're reasonably close and the curve moves around you so the distance from the car doesn't change much*. I managed to get down to 1/80th towards the end of one day there a few years ago, with similar kit (20D and 70-300IS), and was quite happy at 1/125th after an hour or so. Even that gives a very blurred background.
Re: IS - assuming it's dual-mode switch it to mode-2, which keeps the vertical IS but loses the horizontal IS, allowing you to pan better.
JPEG/RAW - you'll use the buffer up quicker shooting RAW (don't forget to set AI Servo), so depends how quick your memory card is (e.g. Sandisk III or IV should be fine with RAW, slower stuff might limit you).
Other points:-
- keep focus point in the centre to start with. If you've time and want to be creative for some shots you could set the focus-point to low on one side where the car's 'nose' will be on a front-quarter shot.
- I'd use spot metering in the centre too
* Means you can shoot a lower shutter speed and keep the car in focus if your panning is smooth** - fore/aft shots need a higher shutter speed as the car is moving THROUGH the focal point towards or away from you.
** Keep pace with the car when panning, don't "overtake it" like you would a clay-pigeon with a shotgun.
Re: IS - assuming it's dual-mode switch it to mode-2, which keeps the vertical IS but loses the horizontal IS, allowing you to pan better.
JPEG/RAW - you'll use the buffer up quicker shooting RAW (don't forget to set AI Servo), so depends how quick your memory card is (e.g. Sandisk III or IV should be fine with RAW, slower stuff might limit you).
Other points:-
- keep focus point in the centre to start with. If you've time and want to be creative for some shots you could set the focus-point to low on one side where the car's 'nose' will be on a front-quarter shot.
- I'd use spot metering in the centre too
* Means you can shoot a lower shutter speed and keep the car in focus if your panning is smooth** - fore/aft shots need a higher shutter speed as the car is moving THROUGH the focal point towards or away from you.
** Keep pace with the car when panning, don't "overtake it" like you would a clay-pigeon with a shotgun.
Hi All,
Thanks again for the advice... I had a cracking day out and quite pleased with some of the results... although I did find the fences got in the way at times!
Some below (C+C Welcome)...
BTCC 170411 (2 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (7 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (9 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (11 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (15 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (25 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
Cheers,
Andy
Thanks again for the advice... I had a cracking day out and quite pleased with some of the results... although I did find the fences got in the way at times!
Some below (C+C Welcome)...
BTCC 170411 (2 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (7 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (9 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (11 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (15 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
BTCC 170411 (25 of 26).jpg by andydean117, on Flickr
Cheers,
Andy
AndyT350 said:
although I did find the fences got in the way at times!
This is one of the key things that can make a great shot - getting a clean/interesting background, which is increasingly difficult if you're in the public enclosures at most circuits. It's quite easy to get half-decent at the technical stuff (panning etc) with practise, but without a press bib you have to be quite creative.If you can't get to that one spot in the fence with a clean view, it's worth experimenting to make use of all the clutter
A coupe of examples below:
BTCC Meeting, Silverstone, 31st August 2008 by david_b, on Flickr
This was 1/40 sec in the rain, with catch fences everywhere and at very high speed (end of the pit straight approaching Copse) - thought I'd try to make a feature of the fence rather than get annoyed by it being in the way!
Goodwood Revival 2010 by david_b, on Flickr
1/30 sec, Lord March's flowers make an interesting addition at the Goodwood chicane
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