Was Yuri Gagarin the 1st in space? Or just 1st to survive?
Discussion
"There are those who believe that somewhere in the vast blackness of space, about nine billion miles from the Sun, the first human is about to cross the boundary of our Solar System into interstellar space. His body, perfectly preserved, is frozen at –270 degrees C (–454ºF); his tiny capsule has been silently sailing away from the Earth at 18,000 mph (29,000km/h) for the last 45 years. He is the original lost cosmonaut, whose rocket went up and, instead of coming back down, just kept on going."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cosmonauts
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1302...
http://www.astronautix.com/fam/phaonaut.htm
To me it seems plausible that the first manned space mission was unlikely to result in the safe return of the astronaut, and that any failed attempts would be hushed up at the height of the cold war, with only successes publicised by both sides. What do you think?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cosmonauts
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1302...
http://www.astronautix.com/fam/phaonaut.htm
To me it seems plausible that the first manned space mission was unlikely to result in the safe return of the astronaut, and that any failed attempts would be hushed up at the height of the cold war, with only successes publicised by both sides. What do you think?
mattviatura said:
Well Sputnik One and then Laika made it back first so they were there or thereabouts with the technology prior to sending Gagarin.
I thought Laika overheated after a few hours due to a malfunction? From what I have read the Russians were far from certain about their technology - the Laika capsule was adapted in a matter of weeks as Khurushev had promised another spaceflight to follow the Sputnik achievement.mattviatura said:
Well Sputnik One and then Laika made it back first so they were there or thereabouts with the technology prior to sending Gagarin.
Sorry, but no. Laika was never planned to come back:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika
wiki said:
As little was known about the impact of spaceflight on living creatures at the time Laika's mission, and the technology to de-orbit had not yet been developed, there was no expectation of Laika's survival.
Laika was launched in 1957 on Russia's second ever space launch of any sort. There was no facility for the capsule to be recovered (they hadn't developed a proper heat shield system at that time although it was under development). It was never intended that Laika be recovered and she did indeed die in space after a few days.
There has been speculation about a prior manned launch before Gagarin's but so far no real credible evidence has ever emerged. The old Soviet space archives have been available to researchers since 1991 and lots of stories and accounts of accidents (and indeed disasters - look up the Nedelin incident in 1960) but nothing has emerged of an unsuccessful manned attempt prior to 12 April 1961.
Also of significance, today, by coincidence, is also the 30th anniversary of the first launch of the Space Shuttle (Columbia/STS-1 - with John Young and Robert Crippen).
There has been speculation about a prior manned launch before Gagarin's but so far no real credible evidence has ever emerged. The old Soviet space archives have been available to researchers since 1991 and lots of stories and accounts of accidents (and indeed disasters - look up the Nedelin incident in 1960) but nothing has emerged of an unsuccessful manned attempt prior to 12 April 1961.
Also of significance, today, by coincidence, is also the 30th anniversary of the first launch of the Space Shuttle (Columbia/STS-1 - with John Young and Robert Crippen).
egomeister said:
I thought Laika overheated after a few hours due to a malfunction?
That's correct:wiki said:
Laika likely died within hours after launch from overheating,[2] possibly caused by a failure of the central R-7 sustainer to separate from the payload.[3] The true cause and time of her death was not made public until 2002; instead, it was widely reported that she died when her oxygen ran out, or (as the Soviets initially insisted) she was euthanised prior to oxygen depletion.
I've bolded the part about the Russians lying about the true nature of Laika's death. I believe that if men died trying to make it into space that it's entirely plausible that there would have been, and would continue to be, widespread denial of it. I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories, but I don't think this is too far fetched.The problem with any such conspiracy is lack of communication. Once a manned spscecraft is launched, ground control needs to communicate with the occupant. That communication begins before launch. Listening posts all over Europe would have picked up the radio communications to the rocket, especially once it popped over the horizon on its path to space. Listening posts of this type were already well established by 1961 as the West was monitoring Russian rocket launches very carefully .
Once in orbit is is virtually impossible to disguise the communications going on and, of course, the spacecraft is completely visible to the naked eye.
The only way a cosmonaut launch attempt could have failed without any communications between the spacecraft and the ground would be if the cosmonaut died on the bus on the way to the launchpad.
One cosmoanut definitely DID die as part of the lead up to Gagarin's flight. This occured during training in an oxygen chamber when a gas ring set a cloth alight which burned fiercely in the pure oxygen atmosphere and killed the occupant of the chamber. It was very similar to the accident which claimed the lives of the Apollo 1 astonauts in 1967. Because of this accident, Russia elected to use an air mixture in their spacecraft rather than pure oxygen.
Once in orbit is is virtually impossible to disguise the communications going on and, of course, the spacecraft is completely visible to the naked eye.
The only way a cosmonaut launch attempt could have failed without any communications between the spacecraft and the ground would be if the cosmonaut died on the bus on the way to the launchpad.
One cosmoanut definitely DID die as part of the lead up to Gagarin's flight. This occured during training in an oxygen chamber when a gas ring set a cloth alight which burned fiercely in the pure oxygen atmosphere and killed the occupant of the chamber. It was very similar to the accident which claimed the lives of the Apollo 1 astonauts in 1967. Because of this accident, Russia elected to use an air mixture in their spacecraft rather than pure oxygen.
No rocket in 1961 had the power to push a spcecraft completely out of the solar system. At best, a wayward spacecraft might have ended up in its own separate orbit around the sun (as did indeed happen to some unmanned lunar probes that missed their target).
Only a small number of spcecraft have been launched on trajectories that will take them out of the solar system. Off the top of my head, I can only recall -
Pioneer 10
Pioneer 11
Voyager 1
Voyager 2
New Horizons
Only a small number of spcecraft have been launched on trajectories that will take them out of the solar system. Off the top of my head, I can only recall -
Pioneer 10
Pioneer 11
Voyager 1
Voyager 2
New Horizons
So, imagine if you will, this first Astronaut drifting into the great unknown is eventually recovered by a deep-space recovery team many years into the future, lets say 500, and returned to Earth, where he is revived thanks to 25th Century medicine. 
Unless of course he is revived by the NHS;
Unless of course he is revived by the NHS;
The Black Flash said:
Even if there was some truth, they wouldn't just keep sailing out into space and out of the solar system as the quote said, but would have remained in orbit. Unless they overestimated the amount of thrust required by a factor of a gazillion.
Eric Mc said:
No rocket in 1961 had the power to push a spcecraft completely out of the solar system.
Ok, that quote in the OP may be a bit corny and I accept your greater knowledge on the subject if you tell me that any lost capsules would not be heading out of the solar system. But what do you think of the likelihood that other people died in space before the Gagarin mission? I tend to refer often to the fact that I feel privileged to have lived through the sixties. What a bloody extraordinary and wonderful time!
I was 10 and three-quarters when Yuri Gagarin made his epic journery.
To us British schoolkids (in the playground at our school anyhow) he was an absolute hero, little else was talked about for days. None of the reds under the beds crap that we were to be brainwashed with later. We all thought we'd be living on Mars today... but the reality and only common thread is that we still eat 'Mars' bars.
That Russian Hollywood smile of a man who put one over on the Yanks lasts. A womderful memory. It does with me anyway, 'cos the 12 April is also my wife's birthday which means I never forget it! Most certainly not today.
Technology has moved on tremendously. The space race died (or it seems to have to me).
50 years on eh? I'm still here to enjoy the nostalgia.
Yet this morning as I watched Sky News at 6.30 am, they couldn't even get the link to the reporter in Russia to work correctly.
Progress.
I was 10 and three-quarters
when Yuri Gagarin made his epic journery. To us British schoolkids (in the playground at our school anyhow) he was an absolute hero, little else was talked about for days. None of the reds under the beds crap that we were to be brainwashed with later. We all thought we'd be living on Mars today... but the reality and only common thread is that we still eat 'Mars' bars.
That Russian Hollywood smile of a man who put one over on the Yanks lasts. A womderful memory. It does with me anyway, 'cos the 12 April is also my wife's birthday which means I never forget it! Most certainly not today.
Technology has moved on tremendously. The space race died (or it seems to have to me).
50 years on eh? I'm still here to enjoy the nostalgia.
Yet this morning as I watched Sky News at 6.30 am, they couldn't even get the link to the reporter in Russia to work correctly.
Progress.
Excellent novel based on the supposition of a hushed up pre Armstrong Soviet moon landing:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ascent-Jed-Mercurio/dp/009...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ascent-Jed-Mercurio/dp/009...
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