W123 - 280CE gearbox (auto) and diff

[mgmrw2003]

Have a question for any experts on behalf of my father, who owns the following car:

1984 Mercedes-Benz 280CE pillar-less coupe, on a W123 chassis.

The car has undergone extensive restoration bodywork and chassis wise, as well as a full engine overhaul. Now the gearbox and differential are showing signs of age, and making "droning noises".

In essence, was wondering if anyone has experience of this? And basically whether there are companies doing refurbs of existing box's or whether a eBay shopping spree for 2nd hand parts is in order?

Thanks in advance, Matt

[r129sl]

It is very hard to tell what is up with the gearbox and diff without driving the car. They can be rebuilt quite readily; alternatively, replacements can be purchased new (at not horrendous cost), refurbished or used. If I was sure it were needed, I would have it rebuilt.

[mgmrw2003]

r129sl said:

It is very hard to tell what is up with the gearbox and diff without driving the car. They can be rebuilt quite readily; alternatively, replacements can be purchased new (at not horrendous cost), refurbished or used. If I was sure it were needed, I would have it rebuilt.

Ok that bodes better than expected. My only experience of such issues is of 90s Nissans, which was a nightmare to say the least.... gearbox rebuilds at £2k and a diff costing £900 all in.

We live in North Lincolnshire, do you know of any "recommended" companies within a couple of hours of that area? As dragging the box/diff down to Wales/Essex/up to Scotland?

The merc mags that my father subscribes to, have some useful items but tend to reccomend places where a blank cheque and substantial inheritance is required.

[jith]

mgmrw2003 said:

Have a question for any experts on behalf of my father, who owns the following car:

1984 Mercedes-Benz 280CE pillar-less coupe, on a W123 chassis.

The car has undergone extensive restoration bodywork and chassis wise, as well as a full engine overhaul. Now the gearbox and differential are showing signs of age, and making "droning noises".

In essence, was wondering if anyone has experience of this? And basically whether there are companies doing refurbs of existing box's or whether a eBay shopping spree for 2nd hand parts is in order?

Thanks in advance, Matt

I can't think of anything in the gearbox that would cause a droning noise. But what frequently does on the W123 is the propshaft or rear driveshafts.

The propshaft is a split type with a centre bearing and a sliding spline: if it has been removed and the spline separated without marking it, it could have been re-assembled on the wrong spline causing it to be out of balance. Some of them have a master spline to prevent this happening, but others do not.

You need to check the joints and the spline for wear and, if necessary, have the whole assembly balanced. Even a small amount will cause vibration, and this is always more obvious on the coupes, I suspect because they are pillarless. Also check the rubber couplings, as these can look OK, but fall to bits when you remove the bolts!

The output shafts at the rear run directly inside the diff casing on one side and the planet gears on the other. You can get advanced wear on this unfortunately that requires the diff to be stripped down and refurbed. If you can grip the output shaft CV joint at the diff and move it up and down you have a problem. This can cause vibration and droning. Also check the shafts themselves for wear in the joints.

Good luck!

J

Edited by jith on Wednesday 30th March 09:40

[mgmrw2003]

jith said:

I can't think of anything in the gearbox that would cause a droning noise. But what frequently does on the W123 is the propshaft or rear driveshafts.

The propshaft is a split type with a centre bearing and a sliding spline: if it has been removed and the spline separated without marking it, it could have been re-assembled on the wrong spline causing it to be out of balance. Some of them have a master spline to prevent this happening, but others do not.

You need to check the joints and the spline for wear and, if necessary, have the whole assembly balanced. Even a small amount will cause vibration, and this is always more obvious on the coupes, I suspect because they are pillarless. Also check the rubber couplings, as these can look OK, but fall to bits when you remove the bolts!

The output shafts at the rear run directly inside the diff casing on one side and the planet gears on the other. You can get advanced wear on this unfortunately that requires the diff to be stripped down and refurbed. If you can grip the output shaft CV joint at the diff and move it up and down you have a problem. This can cause vibration and droning. Also check the shafts themselves for wear in the joints.

Good luck!

J

Edited by jith on Wednesday 30th March 09:40

Thanks very much, shall pass all this on to my father. The only other thing I can see is evidence of a red fluid coming from somehwere in line with the front wheels. Looking under it appears to be gearbox area, BUT due to wind-speed when travelling has smeared around.

One idea I had (based on fault finding with the 200SX - same problem) would be to put the car on a rolling road, so could run at speed and listen for noise outside of the vehicle. as this cant be done on the highway. Does this sound sense?

[mgmrw2003]

Thanks for the help so far, further to this we are located in North Lincolnshire, (Shorpe to be precise) does anyone have a recommendation for a specialist who is knowledgeable in these sorts of things?

My father is willing to travel a couple of hours with the car for the right garage, so that is pretty much Birmingham to just south of Newcastle, and across to Manchester area.

Around us, there is 2 MB dealers (who a. charge a fortune and b. are used to modern stuff) and only 1 specialist, who is a former MB mechanic, set-up solo and has a frankjly ludicrous waiting list, as he is a 1man band in a garage the size of a 6x4 shed.Plus charges near enough MB rates...

[jith]

mgmrw2003 said:

Thanks very much, shall pass all this on to my father. The only other thing I can see is evidence of a red fluid coming from somehwere in line with the front wheels. Looking under it appears to be gearbox area, BUT due to wind-speed when travelling has smeared around.

One idea I had (based on fault finding with the 200SX - same problem) would be to put the car on a rolling road, so could run at speed and listen for noise outside of the vehicle. as this cant be done on the highway. Does this sound sense?

The fluid will either be from the transmission or the steering box. The transmission cooler pipes run along each side of the block to two flexible sections that connect to the coller in the radiator. It could be leaking at any point along the route. The most common fault if it is leaking in line with the axle is the torque convertor main seal; a gearbox out repair I'm afraid.

I can repair your car if you want me to drive it to Glasgow, or alternatively I can have it transported at a very reasonable cost. When it's finished you can jump on a train and I can pick you up at our local station. If you have a couple of days to spare you can then tour the Highlands before you go home!

I have several customers now from England, and I'm actually rebuilding a gearbox on a Ser 1 E Type at the moment and awaiting the transporter arriving with a BMW 735, both from England.

Check out my website and let me know if I can be of help. That's my 500 at the front of the unit.

http://www.jlmotorengineering.co.uk/

Regards,

James.

[r129sl]

I would recommend "jith" above; he has been recommended by a contact of mine in the Merc Club. Or there is Phil Baister at Staithes Garage in Dunston, Gateshead but you will have to leave the car for at least two weeks, probably four. If it were me, I'd send it to Glasgow.

[mgmrw2003]

r129sl said:

I would recommend "jith" above; he has been recommended by a contact of mine in the Merc Club. Or there is Phil Baister at Staithes Garage in Dunston, Gateshead but you will have to leave the car for at least two weeks, probably four. If it were me, I'd send it to Glasgow.

Send it? be easier to take it, have a friend with 4wheeled trailer, and my mum's daily driver is a diesel shogun