Full frame vs. crop sensors - hand-held photo issues
Discussion
Didn't want to hijack another thread in which the following comment made made:
"...if you hire a body best to get it for a week before so you can get used to it, specially if going crop to FF - I discovered my handhold technique was completely toilet when I went D300-D700 and shot at 200mm without a tripod or IS."
I found the same thing, but hadn't really stopped to work out why it was the case.
For example, I went from a D70 with a 70-200 + 1.7 TC to a D3 with the same lens / TC combination, but I found I was having to use a notably quicker shutter speed to avoid camera shake when taking photos of moving cars, etc.
To be honest I just accepted that there was obviously something different about FF vs. cropped sensors in this regard, and never really stopped to look into why, but seeing that comment got me wondering about it again.
Any simple explanations ??
I'm surprised! I thought it was supposed to be the other way round. I've certainly seen plenty of articles, websites and the like stating that on a cropped camera, you need to add the crop factor into working out the maximum shutter speed for handholding. In other words, if I could shoot a 100mm lens at 1/100 on a full frame, I'd need to allow 1/160 on my Canon 450D.
Kermit power said:
I'm surprised! I thought it was supposed to be the other way round. I've certainly seen plenty of articles, websites and the like stating that on a cropped camera, you need to add the crop factor into working out the maximum shutter speed for handholding. In other words, if I could shoot a 100mm lens at 1/100 on a full frame, I'd need to allow 1/160 on my Canon 450D.
That's certainly what I was expecting, but the reality is that, all other things remaining the same, I'm often having to use 1/250 or 1/300 when taking panning pictures with the D3, whereas I'd be comfortably down to 1/160th with the D70.I know the D3 is bigger and heavier, which may play a part when panning, but it was quite noticeable the first time I went photographing cars.
It just seemed all round the wrong way and that full-frame *should* have been more forgiving, but clearly wasn't.
Nick M said:
That's certainly what I was expecting, but the reality is that, all other things remaining the same, I'm often having to use 1/250 or 1/300 when taking panning pictures with the D3, whereas I'd be comfortably down to 1/160th with the D70.
I know the D3 is bigger and heavier, which may play a part when panning, but it was quite noticeable the first time I went photographing cars.
It just seemed all round the wrong way and that full-frame *should* have been more forgiving, but clearly wasn't.
Isn't the logic right though? I've had the D2X and now the D3 for several years and I found that around 1/250th worked for both, but that's by the by. On the basis of the sensor, surely the FF is more sensitive and so will exaggerate any errors so might need a higher speed to compensate. I'm fully with you on the ISO though - my photos of Le Mans Classic 2008 at dawn with the D2X and 200/400 were rubbish, but those of 2010 are magic. Just push the ISO to whatever level you like and no noise - well, up to 6,500 ISO anyway. A magic camera.I know the D3 is bigger and heavier, which may play a part when panning, but it was quite noticeable the first time I went photographing cars.
It just seemed all round the wrong way and that full-frame *should* have been more forgiving, but clearly wasn't.
lowdrag said:
On the basis of the sensor, surely the FF is more sensitive and so will exaggerate any errors so might need a higher speed to compensate. I'm fully with you on the ISO though - my photos of Le Mans Classic 2008 at dawn with the D2X and 200/400 were rubbish, but those of 2010 are magic.
I think this issue is more optical (as in the way the light behaves on its way through the lens and into the camera) rather than sensor sensitivity (by which I assume you're meaning 'ISO' ? ) since it manifests itself as camera shake being more prevalent on the FF sensor.The same lens gathers light in the same way whether it be on a FF or cropped sensor, it's just that the 'footprint' of the lens has a smaller light sensitive area to fall on with the cropped sensor. This manifests itself as an apparent 'magnifying' effect on the cropped sensor (I know it's not) which would in theory make the cropped sensor more affected by camera shake.
Yet the opposite seems to be true, which is from where my confusion stems.
In theory the less dense sensor should show shake less when viewed at 100%.
I could 'get away' with slopier technique on the 350d but cant on the 7D (8vs 18mp)
A full frame should give you more ability to hide camera shake not less.
A d700 is effectivly 5mp as a crop for density comparison.
1/focal length should work for a FF, I try stick to 1/2*fl on the 7D.
I could 'get away' with slopier technique on the 350d but cant on the 7D (8vs 18mp)
A full frame should give you more ability to hide camera shake not less.
A d700 is effectivly 5mp as a crop for density comparison.
1/focal length should work for a FF, I try stick to 1/2*fl on the 7D.
Think of the light coming out of the lens towards the sensor as a cone of light.
On a cropped sensor the light falling on the sensor is from the 'centre' of the light focused by the lens.
On a ff sensor you are gathering light from nearer the edges of the cone.
Movement (shake) is exaggerated at the edge of the cone of light so would be more evident on a ff sensor.
Just a theory fuelled by a couple of glasses of wine and an ancient Physics A level.
On a cropped sensor the light falling on the sensor is from the 'centre' of the light focused by the lens.
On a ff sensor you are gathering light from nearer the edges of the cone.
Movement (shake) is exaggerated at the edge of the cone of light so would be more evident on a ff sensor.
Just a theory fuelled by a couple of glasses of wine and an ancient Physics A level.
mattdaniels said:
Having gone from a D40 / 70-300 combo to a D700 / 70-200 combo, the weight difference has made a noticable impact on my ability to pan.
In hindsight it could very well be this. I've now started to use a monopod more often, not least because several pounds of camera gets quite heavy to wave around after a while.Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff