Discussion
Did anyone else watch The promise on Channel 4 tonight?
I thought it was brilliant, part war film, part modern day drama, part love story, a bit of politics and the main character is pretty hot, what more would you want.
Can't wait till the next one.
One question, well this is piston heads, why does the daughter have a convertible mercedes, but the son has an ancient banger?
I thought it was brilliant, part war film, part modern day drama, part love story, a bit of politics and the main character is pretty hot, what more would you want.
Can't wait till the next one.
One question, well this is piston heads, why does the daughter have a convertible mercedes, but the son has an ancient banger?
Edited by dugt on Sunday 6th February 23:25
Because the daughter is financed by her parents and the son is a rebel who has his mind on more important things than cars....
I thought it was a pretty well-balanced effort but I would imagine that it well end up rather more sympathetic to the Palestinians as the English girl stays to carry on with the brother's work (assuming he was actually blown up....)
L.F.
I thought it was a pretty well-balanced effort but I would imagine that it well end up rather more sympathetic to the Palestinians as the English girl stays to carry on with the brother's work (assuming he was actually blown up....)
L.F.
Very good first episode, was looking forward to it for ages after seeing the adverts.
The question is if there are so many moderates on each side who want to just 'get along' then why don't they just go all Egyptian and make a difference with people power? Is there a mixture of apathy, on the part of those on the fringes, and hatred and fear with those on the front-line that prolongs the stalemate? It's all very complicated, no doubt the layers to the story will develop as the series progresses.
The question is if there are so many moderates on each side who want to just 'get along' then why don't they just go all Egyptian and make a difference with people power? Is there a mixture of apathy, on the part of those on the fringes, and hatred and fear with those on the front-line that prolongs the stalemate? It's all very complicated, no doubt the layers to the story will develop as the series progresses.
Lemmonie said:
i enjoyed it but spent a vast amount of time after on Wikipedia trying to learn/understand more about the palestine/arab/jew/isreal history and to be honest im none the wiser......
If you are really interested I recommend Simon Sebag Montifiore's new book "Jerusalem: The Biography". Very readable and once you get into it hard to put down.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jerusalem-Biography-Simon-...
Leon Uris's "Exodus" is also an entertaining novel and gives a good idea of what went on in 1948
audidoody said:
Lemmonie said:
i enjoyed it but spent a vast amount of time after on Wikipedia trying to learn/understand more about the palestine/arab/jew/isreal history and to be honest im none the wiser......
If you are really interested I recommend Simon Sebag Montifiore's new book "Jerusalem: The Biography". Very readable and once you get into it hard to put down.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jerusalem-Biography-Simon-...
I really enjoyed last night's episode, and I'm looking forward to the next. I have to say, it's quite a brave topic to dramatise, due to the many facets and subtleties involved.
Victor McDade said:
Anyone else been watching?
Just caught up on the second episode online in anticipation of the third episode which is on at 9pm tonight. Brilliant viewing.
Really very good. About time there was something good on a Sunday evening.Just caught up on the second episode online in anticipation of the third episode which is on at 9pm tonight. Brilliant viewing.
Lead (present day) actress isn't that great though.
Are you sure 'the promise' does not relate to that key she's got and trying to return to her grandfather's Arab servant from his base? And it appeared to be growing in significance. Of course it's probably supposed to work on multiple levels. Whether the key is just a device so she can travel around the worst parts of the country is also another possibility how about it turning out to be key to an old arms cache for some interfada finale. While not particularly sympathetic to the Israelis I think it's at least not black and White, but saying it's complicated.
Think the girl in it is often most unsympathetic and naive, and l in need of a frequent slap, don't know if it's good acting and intentional or not...
Think the girl in it is often most unsympathetic and naive, and l in need of a frequent slap, don't know if it's good acting and intentional or not...
Well having started the thread I should at least reply to it.
I really enjoyed the series/film, although it did get more and more unrealistic of the point of being nearly cringe worthy. For instance after an army bloke has found you illegaly in Gaza, and basically let you go, you wouldn't then chain your self to the the building.
Obviously being TV/film you expect it to stretch how realistic something would be for the story line, drama and interest to come through, other wise it would just be 4 hours of the girl in a bikini by the pool, which I probably would end up watching, but wouldn't be thought provoking.
I've never been to anywhere near that area of the world, does anyone know how realistic a portrayal of the area it is as it is now?
I might come across as thick by saying this, but in the war time parts (although you could argue thats its not exactly peacefull now), which side were the British on? In the begining they were holding Jews who had come from Europe in camps, but later on there were both Jews and Arabs working for them. Were they just meant to be keeping the peace?
I really enjoyed the series/film, although it did get more and more unrealistic of the point of being nearly cringe worthy. For instance after an army bloke has found you illegaly in Gaza, and basically let you go, you wouldn't then chain your self to the the building.
Obviously being TV/film you expect it to stretch how realistic something would be for the story line, drama and interest to come through, other wise it would just be 4 hours of the girl in a bikini by the pool, which I probably would end up watching, but wouldn't be thought provoking.
I've never been to anywhere near that area of the world, does anyone know how realistic a portrayal of the area it is as it is now?
I might come across as thick by saying this, but in the war time parts (although you could argue thats its not exactly peacefull now), which side were the British on? In the begining they were holding Jews who had come from Europe in camps, but later on there were both Jews and Arabs working for them. Were they just meant to be keeping the peace?
The British had a 'mandate' to look after Palestine, look up the wiki,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#End_of_the_...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British–Zionist...
or jewish diaspora, before WW2 there was already a Zionist movement to settle a Jewish state in Palestine. the British had a geo political interest for obvious reasons in the eastern Med, oil, suez canal, the trade route to the far east, essentially we were there, to look after our interest, and to keep the peace, and peace and quiet, and stability on our terms, which was benign up to a point, as it's good for trade and profit, which is what we were about. Balfour and MacDonald....
After WW2 with the Jewish desire for a country of their own in which to feel 'safe', it just got complicated, there was a natural sympathy for the Jews after WW2 (and some guilt in western nations), perhaps played upon by the Jewish communities, they are also more western than the arabs, after all there have large and influential jewish communities in the UK for hundred of years, look at how many UK politicians are Jewish. I think no one had the heart, after the war, to really take a tough stance one way or another and it all kept going sideways. Anyway it becomes a bit of a mess with no one really taking charge, or making a decision, in trying to protect both communities, we end up in the middle and upsetting everyone. Not unlike Northern Ireland, where the British Army went into to protect Catholic communities and end up fighting the nationalists.
I'm not that well read but I don't think the The Promise is too far off, the story, with the girl is a bit far fetched, but the actual events, then and now and the general thrust is about near enough. Look up Cast Lead. Whether you feel it actually accurate and paints Israel in a bad light depends on what views you bring to it. It's a divisive topic, and although simplistic to say, until there is a just peace (for both sides) in Israel/Palestine, there'll never be peace there, nor peace in the region, or even the wider world. And it won't be happening any time soon.
This sort of thing keeps reoccurring, which is why before (politicians/media) rush us into Libya (and should have been thought through with Iraq) there should always be a clear mandate, rules of engagement, plan to hand over the reins to the locals and an exit policy, before going in. Otherwise best intentions, and unforeseen circumstances puts our armed forces in the middle of low intensity insurgency with no clear front line, fighting with one hand tied behind our backs, as the enemy is hiding among the populace.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#End_of_the_...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British–Zionist...
or jewish diaspora, before WW2 there was already a Zionist movement to settle a Jewish state in Palestine. the British had a geo political interest for obvious reasons in the eastern Med, oil, suez canal, the trade route to the far east, essentially we were there, to look after our interest, and to keep the peace, and peace and quiet, and stability on our terms, which was benign up to a point, as it's good for trade and profit, which is what we were about. Balfour and MacDonald....
After WW2 with the Jewish desire for a country of their own in which to feel 'safe', it just got complicated, there was a natural sympathy for the Jews after WW2 (and some guilt in western nations), perhaps played upon by the Jewish communities, they are also more western than the arabs, after all there have large and influential jewish communities in the UK for hundred of years, look at how many UK politicians are Jewish. I think no one had the heart, after the war, to really take a tough stance one way or another and it all kept going sideways. Anyway it becomes a bit of a mess with no one really taking charge, or making a decision, in trying to protect both communities, we end up in the middle and upsetting everyone. Not unlike Northern Ireland, where the British Army went into to protect Catholic communities and end up fighting the nationalists.
I'm not that well read but I don't think the The Promise is too far off, the story, with the girl is a bit far fetched, but the actual events, then and now and the general thrust is about near enough. Look up Cast Lead. Whether you feel it actually accurate and paints Israel in a bad light depends on what views you bring to it. It's a divisive topic, and although simplistic to say, until there is a just peace (for both sides) in Israel/Palestine, there'll never be peace there, nor peace in the region, or even the wider world. And it won't be happening any time soon.
This sort of thing keeps reoccurring, which is why before (politicians/media) rush us into Libya (and should have been thought through with Iraq) there should always be a clear mandate, rules of engagement, plan to hand over the reins to the locals and an exit policy, before going in. Otherwise best intentions, and unforeseen circumstances puts our armed forces in the middle of low intensity insurgency with no clear front line, fighting with one hand tied behind our backs, as the enemy is hiding among the populace.
dugt said:
I've never been to anywhere near that area of the world, does anyone know how realistic a portrayal of the area it is as it is now?
Been to Haifa twice on a ship; the architecture is accurate, but I didn't feel it adequately conveyed the rotting rubbish/dead animal/catpiss stench that that the backstreets have. 
Perhaps streetsweepers had a better work ethic in 1948.I very much enjoyed parts of the Promise, but thought a great deal of it was basically s
te.
The immediate post war aftermath in Palestine is a very good setting for a film/tv series and is a little known period in history for the general public. I thought the story set there was very compelling, with a good protagonist and remained balanced until the final episode.
In contrast the framing device of the girl reading her grandfather's diary was poorly constructed and meant we had to spend far too much time in the company of a girl whose only expression was a sullen pout. At times this became absolutely ludicrous, like her reason for wanting to visit Hebron 'to see how her grandfather's story turned out'. It’s not that big a diary, unless you are the world's slowest reader you could read it cover to cover in a few hours. It was also a far less balanced story, with characters presenting as fact only one side of deeply controversial issues. Take the security barrier, condemned as useless for security reasons, and yet suicide bombings plummeted after its construction.
Talking about bias, we then come to the final episode, which presented the start of the arab-israeli war of 1948 as purely of poor helpless Arabs being slaughtered by Israelis. Both sides committed atrocities against civilians in the build up to the war and the war itself saw 2,400 Jewish civilians lose their lives. A far more interesting story might how a militia of only 30,000 Jews (at the start of the war) held back the armies of the Arab world.
In conclusion a good historical drama let down by its bias and framing device.
te.The immediate post war aftermath in Palestine is a very good setting for a film/tv series and is a little known period in history for the general public. I thought the story set there was very compelling, with a good protagonist and remained balanced until the final episode.
In contrast the framing device of the girl reading her grandfather's diary was poorly constructed and meant we had to spend far too much time in the company of a girl whose only expression was a sullen pout. At times this became absolutely ludicrous, like her reason for wanting to visit Hebron 'to see how her grandfather's story turned out'. It’s not that big a diary, unless you are the world's slowest reader you could read it cover to cover in a few hours. It was also a far less balanced story, with characters presenting as fact only one side of deeply controversial issues. Take the security barrier, condemned as useless for security reasons, and yet suicide bombings plummeted after its construction.
Talking about bias, we then come to the final episode, which presented the start of the arab-israeli war of 1948 as purely of poor helpless Arabs being slaughtered by Israelis. Both sides committed atrocities against civilians in the build up to the war and the war itself saw 2,400 Jewish civilians lose their lives. A far more interesting story might how a militia of only 30,000 Jews (at the start of the war) held back the armies of the Arab world.
In conclusion a good historical drama let down by its bias and framing device.
JagLover said:
I very much enjoyed parts of the Promise, but thought a great deal of it was basically ste.
The immediate post war aftermath in Palestine is a very good setting for a film/tv series and is a little known period in history for the general public. I thought the story set there was very compelling, with a good protagonist and remained balanced until the final episode.
In contrast the framing device of the girl reading her grandfather's diary was poorly constructed and meant we had to spend far too much time in the company of a girl whose only expression was a sullen pout. At times this became absolutely ludicrous, like her reason for wanting to visit Hebron 'to see how her grandfather's story turned out'. It’s not that big a diary, unless you are the world's slowest reader you could read it cover to cover in a few hours. It was also a far less balanced story, with characters presenting as fact only one side of deeply controversial issues. Take the security barrier, condemned as useless for security reasons, and yet suicide bombings plummeted after its construction.
Talking about bias, we then come to the final episode, which presented the start of the arab-israeli war of 1948 as purely of poor helpless Arabs being slaughtered by Israelis. Both sides committed atrocities against civilians in the build up to the war and the war itself saw 2,400 Jewish civilians lose their lives. A far more interesting story might how a militia of only 30,000 Jews (at the start of the war) held back the armies of the Arab world.
In conclusion a good historical drama let down by its bias and framing device.
THIS
te.The immediate post war aftermath in Palestine is a very good setting for a film/tv series and is a little known period in history for the general public. I thought the story set there was very compelling, with a good protagonist and remained balanced until the final episode.
In contrast the framing device of the girl reading her grandfather's diary was poorly constructed and meant we had to spend far too much time in the company of a girl whose only expression was a sullen pout. At times this became absolutely ludicrous, like her reason for wanting to visit Hebron 'to see how her grandfather's story turned out'. It’s not that big a diary, unless you are the world's slowest reader you could read it cover to cover in a few hours. It was also a far less balanced story, with characters presenting as fact only one side of deeply controversial issues. Take the security barrier, condemned as useless for security reasons, and yet suicide bombings plummeted after its construction.
Talking about bias, we then come to the final episode, which presented the start of the arab-israeli war of 1948 as purely of poor helpless Arabs being slaughtered by Israelis. Both sides committed atrocities against civilians in the build up to the war and the war itself saw 2,400 Jewish civilians lose their lives. A far more interesting story might how a militia of only 30,000 Jews (at the start of the war) held back the armies of the Arab world.
In conclusion a good historical drama let down by its bias and framing device.
THIS
So is this a cack of pooh or is it reasonable level and balanced?
Caught a bit with teh Mrs and now wished I had watched it.
Bottom line is it appears to be made by a Jewish chap so would assume that it would be balanced AT BEST!
Have never been able to get an objective summary and opinion on this conflict!
Ta
Caught a bit with teh Mrs and now wished I had watched it.
Bottom line is it appears to be made by a Jewish chap so would assume that it would be balanced AT BEST!
Have never been able to get an objective summary and opinion on this conflict!
Ta
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