Any networking gurus on here?
Discussion
Hi all,
I have just bought a US Robotics wireless gateway router (8054) and am having some snags
My current set up is a cable modem connected to a Netgear 4 port gateway/router/firewall using Cat5 cable. On the back of that, there is a Cat5 lead to a dedicated NAS box and a lead to my laptop and all works well. DHCP server is enabled on this box.
I then plugged in one of the ports on the Netgear to the WAN port on the USR box and connected to it using a wireless card on the laptop. DHCP is also enabled on this box. I could get on the WWW, no worries (I haven't played with the security settings yet!) using wireless but couldn't see the storage. What am I doing wrong?
Do I disable DHCP on the USR box? Go to fixed IPs all round? Patch a normal port on the USR to one of the ports on the Netgear?
I know the easy answer is probably remove the Netgear completely but due to the effort needed to change MAC address settings with Blueyonder and the cable modem, I would rather not!! Also, cables are already run from the Netgear box.
Suffice to say, there was some good swearing last night!!
Thanks for your help in advance
Glen
I have just bought a US Robotics wireless gateway router (8054) and am having some snags
My current set up is a cable modem connected to a Netgear 4 port gateway/router/firewall using Cat5 cable. On the back of that, there is a Cat5 lead to a dedicated NAS box and a lead to my laptop and all works well. DHCP server is enabled on this box.
I then plugged in one of the ports on the Netgear to the WAN port on the USR box and connected to it using a wireless card on the laptop. DHCP is also enabled on this box. I could get on the WWW, no worries (I haven't played with the security settings yet!) using wireless but couldn't see the storage. What am I doing wrong?
Do I disable DHCP on the USR box? Go to fixed IPs all round? Patch a normal port on the USR to one of the ports on the Netgear?
I know the easy answer is probably remove the Netgear completely but due to the effort needed to change MAC address settings with Blueyonder and the cable modem, I would rather not!! Also, cables are already run from the Netgear box.
Suffice to say, there was some good swearing last night!!
Thanks for your help in advance
Glen
Sounds like the Netgear is doing NAT to the web for you and then 3com Wireless if it has a WAN port is also doing NAT. I think you want to run the 3com Wireless in wireless access point mode not router mode. Plugging netgear into a "normal port" as you say might just work or on some you can login to the wireless router and just set it to access point mode which disables DHCP/NAT/PAT but still leaves it with an IP address so that you can manage it. In access point mode you can still get DHCP addresses from your Netgear so you shouldn't have to go to static addresses.
Hope that helps
Hope that helps
malman said:
I think you want to run the 3com Wireless in wireless access point mode not router mode. Plugging netgear into a "normal port" as you say might just work or on some you can login to the wireless router and just set it to access point mode which disables DHCP/NAT/PAT but still leaves it with an IP address so that you can manage it. In access point mode you can still get DHCP addresses from your Netgear so you shouldn't have to go to static addresses.
Hope that helps
Crikey - I am having some fun with this - not!
If I switch it to AP mode - it loses the IP address it gets from the netgear. Fixing the IP address manually seems to make no difference. Leave it in router mode and I have turned off NAT. I can now get on to the Web but still no access to the NAS. I can't get it to work... I think I might have to decommission the Netgear....
Any other ideas?
Glen
I think I read your post right so here goes.
I think your saying that if you put the 3com in AP mode it loses its IP address that it got from DHCP off the Netgear.
When the 3com is in AP mode it should be working like a dumb hub/switch but use wireless transport instead of Cat5 cable. It will still need an IP address (static is fine) so that you could reconfigure in future to be a router again or change wep settings etc. This IP will have no bearing on how the network finally works (don't pick a duplicate obviously and best if its in the same subnet as the DHCP range) its just for managing the Wireless kit.
If its in AP mode and a wireless client does a DHCP broadcast it should pass this out of all the CAT5 ports (one of which should be connected to your Netgear) but may not go out the WAN port. The Netgear should respond to the DCHP request via the CAT5 -> 3COM -> Wireless Card so your laptop or whatever will get an IP from the Netgear.
I think what I'm trying to say is that AP mode should be no different to having Cat5 plugged into Netgear from laptop.
Can you ping the NAS box. Do you have anything else on the network? Does the NAS have HTTP management can you get to it?
Don't you just hate networks when they don't work.
I think your saying that if you put the 3com in AP mode it loses its IP address that it got from DHCP off the Netgear.
When the 3com is in AP mode it should be working like a dumb hub/switch but use wireless transport instead of Cat5 cable. It will still need an IP address (static is fine) so that you could reconfigure in future to be a router again or change wep settings etc. This IP will have no bearing on how the network finally works (don't pick a duplicate obviously and best if its in the same subnet as the DHCP range) its just for managing the Wireless kit.
If its in AP mode and a wireless client does a DHCP broadcast it should pass this out of all the CAT5 ports (one of which should be connected to your Netgear) but may not go out the WAN port. The Netgear should respond to the DCHP request via the CAT5 -> 3COM -> Wireless Card so your laptop or whatever will get an IP from the Netgear.
I think what I'm trying to say is that AP mode should be no different to having Cat5 plugged into Netgear from laptop.
Can you ping the NAS box. Do you have anything else on the network? Does the NAS have HTTP management can you get to it?
Don't you just hate networks when they don't work.
Hi Malman,
Hating networks is a bit of an understatement!!
When the netgear is connected to the WAN port, I can access the NAS using a web interface to access its management functions using mozilla/ie etc and just typing in the IP address, 192.168.0.2. What I can't seem to do is get the name of the device resolved to reconnect the network shares in the form of \devicenameglen which is the really frustrating bit!
I proved this morning that all the wired stuff still works after a scare last night (the USR installation routine for updated drivers for the wireless card shagged the wired pc card so it couldn't get an IP address off the Netgear
so a system roll back was the order of the day....). I think the next line of attack is use the wired card via cat5 in to the USR, then another cat5 from a normal port up to the netgear. If that all works, then I know it is something with the wireless configuration....
If it doesn't then I think the Netgear will be taken out of the loop (hassles with MAC address spoofing etc etc) and I will see if I can get the USR working as the gateway...
If you have any other guidance or where I can read about what sub-net masks and routing tables actually do, and how to configure them, I (and my other half!) will be eternally grateful
Glen
Hating networks is a bit of an understatement!!
When the netgear is connected to the WAN port, I can access the NAS using a web interface to access its management functions using mozilla/ie etc and just typing in the IP address, 192.168.0.2. What I can't seem to do is get the name of the device resolved to reconnect the network shares in the form of \devicenameglen which is the really frustrating bit!
I proved this morning that all the wired stuff still works after a scare last night (the USR installation routine for updated drivers for the wireless card shagged the wired pc card so it couldn't get an IP address off the Netgear
so a system roll back was the order of the day....). I think the next line of attack is use the wired card via cat5 in to the USR, then another cat5 from a normal port up to the netgear. If that all works, then I know it is something with the wireless configuration.... If it doesn't then I think the Netgear will be taken out of the loop (hassles with MAC address spoofing etc etc) and I will see if I can get the USR working as the gateway...
If you have any other guidance or where I can read about what sub-net masks and routing tables actually do, and how to configure them, I (and my other half!) will be eternally grateful
Glen
CAT5 idea sounds like a good plan of attack. Keep notes on what works with small diagram as its easy to loose track when trying different combinations of wan-lan port/setup ap-nonap /wireless.
On the blueyonder MAC address thing I thought they allowed you to put in extra MAC addresses yourself now. Upto five I think. You used to have to ring Tech support to get them to change it but I think they got sick of that and built a web control panel. I don't have Blueyonder and all the guys here that do are out the office so I can't ask so I could be talking complete b****cks. You could then swap between Netgear and USR without problems.
All you really need for a simple home network IP scheme is
192.168.0.X (x= 1 to 254 assign each host unique number)
255.255.255.0 ( is the subnet mask)
Easiest way is to set a DHCP range the internet router (netgear in your case). Don't make the range 1 - 254, or put in some exclusions so that you can have some static addresses that don't get supplied by the DHCP server (you will need one for the router itself). I would suggest that your NAS be on a static also. Does the netgear have a DNS server if so put an entry in for your NAS box
e.g 192.168.0.5 = mynasbox
I tried looking for a simple guide to TCP/IP on the net. I thought there's bound to be one - nothing particularly outstanding. The manuals that come with these thing usually have a quick guide.
On the blueyonder MAC address thing I thought they allowed you to put in extra MAC addresses yourself now. Upto five I think. You used to have to ring Tech support to get them to change it but I think they got sick of that and built a web control panel. I don't have Blueyonder and all the guys here that do are out the office so I can't ask so I could be talking complete b****cks. You could then swap between Netgear and USR without problems.
All you really need for a simple home network IP scheme is
192.168.0.X (x= 1 to 254 assign each host unique number)
255.255.255.0 ( is the subnet mask)
Easiest way is to set a DHCP range the internet router (netgear in your case). Don't make the range 1 - 254, or put in some exclusions so that you can have some static addresses that don't get supplied by the DHCP server (you will need one for the router itself). I would suggest that your NAS be on a static also. Does the netgear have a DNS server if so put an entry in for your NAS box
e.g 192.168.0.5 = mynasbox
I tried looking for a simple guide to TCP/IP on the net. I thought there's bound to be one - nothing particularly outstanding. The manuals that come with these thing usually have a quick guide.
malman said:
CAT5 idea sounds like a good plan of attack. Keep notes on what works with small diagram as its easy to loose track when trying different combinations of wan-lan port/setup ap-nonap /wireless.
Yep - already reached that so I will be getting the pen and paper out when I have another opportunity to have a play - tomorrow evening and over the weekend.
malman said:
On the blueyonder MAC address thing I thought they allowed you to put in extra MAC addresses yourself now. Upto five I think. You used to have to ring Tech support to get them to change it but I think they got sick of that and built a web control panel. I don't have Blueyonder and all the guys here that do are out the office so I can't ask so I could be talking complete b****cks. You could then swap between Netgear and USR without problems.
Yep, they have done that. The fun is that the cable modem sometimes takes a few hours to "forget" the MAC address of what was plugged in to it before.
malman said:
All you really need for a simple home network IP scheme is
192.168.0.X (x= 1 to 254 assign each host unique number)
255.255.255.0 ( is the subnet mask)
Easiest way is to set a DHCP range the internet router (netgear in your case). Don't make the range 1 - 254, or put in some exclusions so that you can have some static addresses that don't get supplied by the DHCP server (you will need one for the router itself). I would suggest that your NAS be on a static also. Does the netgear have a DNS server if so put an entry in for your NAS box
e.g 192.168.0.5 = mynasbox
I tried looking for a simple guide to TCP/IP on the net. I thought there's bound to be one - nothing particularly outstanding. The manuals that come with these thing usually have a quick guide.
Ah-ha - this is the bit I am having fun with. I will need to look at again. I don't believe the netgear does have a dns server - it just has a routeing table. I cannot yet see how to use the routing table and am reluctant to "have a play" in case I sh@g a working configuration!
As for documentation: the netgear is OK but the USR is very very poor. Great if you want to just plug it in to the cable modem and hang a couple of machines off the back of it (includes a copy of Networking for Dummies....) but if you want to do anything more complex, like setting up the integrated firewall, then forget it!
Bit of a shame that I am out tonight as I would like to have another play - the technical challenge is proving interesting if a little
! Thanks for your help so far - I will keep you posted!
Glen
You shouldn't need to mess with the routing. It will be set to any packet that is not bound for a 192.168.0.x address should be stuffed out the WAN port. It will perform NAT so that all the packets going to the internet appear to come from the IP assigned to the WAN port of the Netgear (assigned via DHCP from Blueyonder). Any reply packets arrive at the WAN port and the Netgear automatically routes them to the correct PC because it kept a record of which IP sent the outbound packets.
If you knew all this please feel free to tell me to shut up
If you knew all this please feel free to tell me to shut up
2 addresses? not 5? Did they give you any subnet mask details?
Generally if you have multiple statics with an DSL ISP
You assign one to your router ethernet port and the others you are free to assign to other devices. Setting your router IP to be the default gateway for these devices gives them access to the internet.
Neil
Disclaimer:
Firewalls and all that. Please don't put unprotected devices on public addresses.
Generally if you have multiple statics with an DSL ISP
You assign one to your router ethernet port and the others you are free to assign to other devices. Setting your router IP to be the default gateway for these devices gives them access to the internet.
Neil
Disclaimer:
Firewalls and all that. Please don't put unprotected devices on public addresses.
So do you have this?
I'll use x's addresses for example but yours will be public numbers
router address x.x.x.1
subnet mask 255.255.255.252
PC address x.x.x.2
subnet nask 255.255.255.252
default gateway x.x.x.1
In the above x.x.x.0 would be network numnber
In the above x.x.x.3 would be broadcast address
if so you are using both your addresses already. If not then you may have some NAT going on I think some DSL routers do NAT and static together. Does your PC end up with a 192.168.x.x or a 172.16.x.x or 10.x.x.x IP address?
if they gave you subnet of 255.255.255.248
network would be x.x.x.0
broadcast would go to x.x.x.7
and available hosts would be x.x.x.1 - x.x.x.6
I'll use x's addresses for example but yours will be public numbers
router address x.x.x.1
subnet mask 255.255.255.252
PC address x.x.x.2
subnet nask 255.255.255.252
default gateway x.x.x.1
In the above x.x.x.0 would be network numnber
In the above x.x.x.3 would be broadcast address
if so you are using both your addresses already. If not then you may have some NAT going on I think some DSL routers do NAT and static together. Does your PC end up with a 192.168.x.x or a 172.16.x.x or 10.x.x.x IP address?
if they gave you subnet of 255.255.255.248
network would be x.x.x.0
broadcast would go to x.x.x.7
and available hosts would be x.x.x.1 - x.x.x.6
Yeah you are using NAT if you connect to anything on the net it appears your PC is on 82.152.x.x but you know your PC is on 192.168.1.2
If you goto here http://msv.dk/ms592.asp it will show you your IP address as it appears to the world which is not what your PC is on.
Normally the WAN IP is assigned as its a pppoa connection to your ISP. You then set the first IP as your router ethernet address and the second IP would then be available for your PC. All this would gain you in your case is that the PC would become a routable address on the net but you would have no free IPs to put anything else on unless you ask eclipse for a bigger subnet. You would need to make sure that you router had firewalling and that it was turned on and configured, you should still be using it even with NAT to stop unwanted outbound traffic.
When you say you want one for an unprotected IIS server do you mean you want to allow just web traffic to it or really unprotected? You have a staic WAN address so you can use port forwarding/PAT to forward port 80 to say 192.168.1.5 and put your IIS box on that. This has problems in that if anyone breaks the IIS box they are on your internal network.
You would need a firewall with DMZ capabilities to get round this
Does that make sense?
If you goto here http://msv.dk/ms592.asp it will show you your IP address as it appears to the world which is not what your PC is on.
Normally the WAN IP is assigned as its a pppoa connection to your ISP. You then set the first IP as your router ethernet address and the second IP would then be available for your PC. All this would gain you in your case is that the PC would become a routable address on the net but you would have no free IPs to put anything else on unless you ask eclipse for a bigger subnet. You would need to make sure that you router had firewalling and that it was turned on and configured, you should still be using it even with NAT to stop unwanted outbound traffic.
When you say you want one for an unprotected IIS server do you mean you want to allow just web traffic to it or really unprotected? You have a staic WAN address so you can use port forwarding/PAT to forward port 80 to say 192.168.1.5 and put your IIS box on that. This has problems in that if anyone breaks the IIS box they are on your internal network.
You would need a firewall with DMZ capabilities to get round this
Does that make sense?
Malman - thanks for your help, I used the Cat5 cable route as being more reliable. The solution to the scenario was soooo simple (once you RTFM for the storage ). It then turns out that the NAS needs to be on the same network segment as the machine trying to access it.... so all I had to do was move the cable leading out of the NAS from the Netgear to the USR....doh! How 
do I feel??
Still, I have learned alot about networking with this excercise.
Bit of a shame that the drivers for the wireless access card shag the ability to get an IP address for either wireless or wired access, but that is the subject of another thread!
I owe you a
if we ever meet up!
Glen
). It then turns out that the NAS needs to be on the same network segment as the machine trying to access it.... so all I had to do was move the cable leading out of the NAS from the Netgear to the USR....doh! How do I feel?? Still, I have learned alot about networking with this excercise.
Bit of a shame that the drivers for the wireless access card shag the ability to get an IP address for either wireless or wired access
, but that is the subject of another thread! I owe you a
if we ever meet up! Glen
No problem m8.
I've had similiar strange problems with Netgear wireless drivers on XP that appeared to corrupt the TCP/IP stack (ping was returning garbage characters in the output and no replies) but only when you had a static IP assigned to the wireless card. Tunred on DHCP and it worked.
Anyway glad its all working for you.
I've had similiar strange problems with Netgear wireless drivers on XP that appeared to corrupt the TCP/IP stack (ping was returning garbage characters in the output and no replies) but only when you had a static IP assigned to the wireless card. Tunred on DHCP and it worked.
Anyway glad its all working for you.
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