Illegal Tobacco trade
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12217738
What do you reckon, filthy criminals or enterprising individuals (or gangs)?
What do you reckon, filthy criminals or enterprising individuals (or gangs)?
stitched said:
However if you tax a product to 85% you will get revenue dodging.
Very true - tax something to the hilt and it opens the door to this kind of thing. There was a report on my local news tonight of four buses in a depot having their full tanks emptied overnight, something that no doubt wouldn't have occurred were it not for the ridiculous price of fuel, or rather fuel tax.ahem, no excess tax on copper or wood, that doesn't stop people flogging railway sleepers and copper cable.
Id suggest it comes down to the risk reward ratio. Simple economics.
I guess the police are too lazy to get out from behind their desks in Scotland. Health and safety issues. Probably too cold for them.
Id suggest it comes down to the risk reward ratio. Simple economics.
I guess the police are too lazy to get out from behind their desks in Scotland. Health and safety issues. Probably too cold for them.
Dixie68 said:
stitched said:
However if you tax a product to 85% you will get revenue dodging.
Very true - tax something to the hilt and it opens the door to this kind of thing. There was a report on my local news tonight of four buses in a depot having their full tanks emptied overnight, something that no doubt wouldn't have occurred were it not for the ridiculous price of fuel, or rather fuel tax.
) we still had people stealing diesel. I think a lot of the time it was Pikey scum who were entitled to it 
As for the illegal tobacco trade, I knew several people who brought thousands of boxes over from Europe and sold them on at a profit. They were decent normal folk, not the evil gangsters that the Government and media would have you believe.
ringram said:
ahem, no excess tax on copper or wood, that doesn't stop people flogging railway sleepers and copper cable.
Id suggest it comes down to the risk reward ratio. Simple economics.
True, but I'd suggest there are more ordinary people doing things such as this because they don't consider it to be a big deal as they feel the taxation is a rip off anyway. Long ago this was purely the realm of the Pikey element of society, whereas now normal folk do it.Id suggest it comes down to the risk reward ratio. Simple economics.
te, wouldn't the market dry up? Or have I missed something..Tsippy said:
As for the illegal tobacco trade, I knew several people who brought thousands of boxes over from Europe and sold them on at a profit. They were decent normal folk, not the evil gangsters that the Government and media would have you believe.
Barry down the pub and his white van runs to France are one thing. Importing fake tobacco goods and sizeable gang structures is a tottaly different cup of char.I would never buy from the man down the pub or this lot for the simple reasons that it is a criminal activity and at the end of the day you have even less of an idea what stuff they put in these things than that which Philip Morris does.
Over the last 9 years I doubt I bought a years worth of tobacco in the UK due to the OTT tax on it. Instead I have just had a little trip over to France 3-4 times a year and until a couple of years ago the amount I 'saved' covered the cost of the fuel, the ferry and left a few pounds towards a hotel in France if we wanted. These days the increase in tax on tobacco in France and the stupid price of petrol means that it might just be cheaper to buy in the UK (all in), if it wasn't for the fact that we also stock up on wine and food stuffs you can't easily get over here.
Rude-boy said:
Tsippy said:
As for the illegal tobacco trade, I knew several people who brought thousands of boxes over from Europe and sold them on at a profit. They were decent normal folk, not the evil gangsters that the Government and media would have you believe.
Barry down the pub and his white van runs to France are one thing. Importing fake tobacco goods and sizeable gang structures is a tottaly different cup of char.I would never buy from the man down the pub or this lot for the simple reasons that it is a criminal activity and at the end of the day you have even less of an idea what stuff they put in these things than that which Philip Morris does.
Over the last 9 years I doubt I bought a years worth of tobacco in the UK due to the OTT tax on it. Instead I have just had a little trip over to France 3-4 times a year and until a couple of years ago the amount I 'saved' covered the cost of the fuel, the ferry and left a few pounds towards a hotel in France if we wanted. These days the increase in tax on tobacco in France and the stupid price of petrol means that it might just be cheaper to buy in the UK (all in), if it wasn't for the fact that we also stock up on wine and food stuffs you can't easily get over here.
Rude-boy said:
These days the increase in tax on tobacco in France and the stupid price of petrol means that it might just be cheaper to buy in the UK (all in), if it wasn't for the fact that we also stock up on wine and food stuffs you can't easily get over here.
That's why I gave up - it was bad enough paying loads of cash for tabs, but knowing that the government was trousering the lions-share of it was the clincher.Rude-boy said:
Over the last 9 years I doubt I bought a years worth of tobacco in the UK due to the OTT tax on it. Instead I have just had a little trip over to France 3-4 times a year and until a couple of years ago the amount I 'saved' covered the cost of the fuel, the ferry and left a few pounds towards a hotel in France if we wanted. These days the increase in tax on tobacco in France and the stupid price of petrol means that it might just be cheaper to buy in the UK (all in), if it wasn't for the fact that we also stock up on wine and food stuffs you can't easily get over here.
I used to go to Belgium to buy my tobacco because it was considerably cheaper than in France. However, since those little saviours Easyjet have come along, I usually go on a day trip to Spain to buy the stuff. That said, I went to Belgium last time I stocked up (in August), but the financial details for my last trip to Spain in February last year (perfectly legal under the Single Market, by the way) were as follows:Diesel to and from Bristol airport, airline return ticket to Alicante and hire car/ fuel whilst over there: £159.66
Tobacco cost: 40 packets at €4.85 (£4.35 at the exchange rate at the time): £174.13
Total outlay: £333.79
Cost of 40 packets of Old Holborn at Sainsburys at the time (40 x £11.82) £472.80
Total saving: £139.01
It is also, incidentally, rather quicker for me to drive to Bristol airport and fly to Alicante, than it is to drive from here to the Belgian border
And you get a day out into the bargain, give some money to a small business in Spain and an airline rather than pay it in tax, and the Chancellor can sing for his penal tobacco taxation
rs1952 said:
And you get a day out into the bargain, give some money to a small business in Spain and an airline rather than pay it in tax, and the Chancellor can sing for his penal tobacco taxation
Have looked at that a little but the g/f loves her cooking and there is a limit to how much food stuff you can carry back with you on a plane 
We can usually also tie it in with a job at Lydden so that can also reduce the cost as we have to go down there anyway.It's all a bt of a question of where you live as to what is best for each person but certainly if you can afford the outlay it makes much more sense to have a 'free' weekend away than to just shell out £6ish a pack day in day out.
Of course the best thing to do would be to give up smoking, but in the meantime...
The government (and therefore the BBC) would like you to believe that every illicit packet of fags originates in a Chinese sweat shop and is filled with all manner of vile toxins. The truth is that most of the traffic involves legit tobacco products purchased elsewhere and moved to the UK.
There is a level of taxation that reasonable people will accept. Once that level has been breached many will look for alternative sources.
There is a level of taxation that reasonable people will accept. Once that level has been breached many will look for alternative sources.
B17NNS said:
So where is the cheapest place in the EU to buy cigarettes?
It must also be easy and relatively cheap to get to.
I regularly pop over to Adinkerke in Belgium to stock up on fags. It works out at £2 per packet less than this country. Combine 1,500 tabs with 25 litres of wine from Cite Europe near Calais, and the overall savings more than compensate for the fuel and ferry costs.It must also be easy and relatively cheap to get to.
The actual program was on today
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zftc4/Pano...
Not really an eye opener for me as I already knew it.
Yes people will not care if they are tax avoiding but the safety aspect of it is interesteding and the sheer volume of counterfeits. I wonder if those people in the market would still buy the cigarettes if they knew they were fake and how they were made/the higher levels of toxicity
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zftc4/Pano...
Not really an eye opener for me as I already knew it.
Yes people will not care if they are tax avoiding but the safety aspect of it is interesteding and the sheer volume of counterfeits. I wonder if those people in the market would still buy the cigarettes if they knew they were fake and how they were made/the higher levels of toxicity
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