S2 Write Off ??
Discussion
Like many fellow S owners I managed to get my S2 out for a run on Sunday morning. Everything was going great down my favourite windy country roads. Taking it nice and easy on the damp surfaces, enjoying the excellent exhaust note just pootling along when...
I get to a straight stretch where there's a medium size dog running towards me on the pavement on my side of the road. I went onto overrun to slow down, as you do, when he decides that he no longer likes the pavement and jumps out into the road right in front of me.
The cyclist on the other side of the road and the kerb on my side gave me nowhere to go. A sickening crunch later and it's all over... Here I'll draw a veil over the scene for all fellow dog owners.
Today I spent some time looking over the S2 which took all of the impact on the passenger side indicator. It looks like :-
LH bonnet catch sprung open.
Various cracks and crazes on and through the bonnet.
LH of bonnet about 2 inches rearwards, tyre contacts wheelarch with any sort of RH steering lock on.
Chassis mounting for LH side of bonnet is twisted out of shape.
LH door is tight in its opening, about a 1mm gap front and back, door creaks ominously on opening.
Waiting for the insurance assessor to come out to it this week, but I think that I know what the outcome will be.........
Bob
I get to a straight stretch where there's a medium size dog running towards me on the pavement on my side of the road. I went onto overrun to slow down, as you do, when he decides that he no longer likes the pavement and jumps out into the road right in front of me.
The cyclist on the other side of the road and the kerb on my side gave me nowhere to go. A sickening crunch later and it's all over... Here I'll draw a veil over the scene for all fellow dog owners.
Today I spent some time looking over the S2 which took all of the impact on the passenger side indicator. It looks like :-
LH bonnet catch sprung open.
Various cracks and crazes on and through the bonnet.
LH of bonnet about 2 inches rearwards, tyre contacts wheelarch with any sort of RH steering lock on.
Chassis mounting for LH side of bonnet is twisted out of shape.
LH door is tight in its opening, about a 1mm gap front and back, door creaks ominously on opening.
Waiting for the insurance assessor to come out to it this week, but I think that I know what the outcome will be.........
Bob
r I suggest that you have a word with Frank at Option One, Stoke Prior. They do a fantastic job.Bob,
Sorry to hear of your mishap, but this could happen to us all. However with this being a dog you hit (it is sheep you need to be aware of near me and for them on Dartmoor it's different) all may not be lost as the usual car insurance approach to writing off etc may not apply. This is because the dog owner is liable for the damage even if he hasn't insured his dog because it is his responsibility to have the animal under control at all times. This means you may have to go to court to pursue (if he's not insured - house insurance can sometimes cover this) but it is him/her who is legally responsible for returning your P&J to the condition it was in prior to the accident. Therefore:
1. Was the owner of the dog there?
2. If so then why wasn't it on a leash?
3. Did you get his/her name and address?
4. Is the dog insured? You should be aware that the owner is liable for all the damage.
5. Check the general forum as there is an individual on there (a solicitor I believe) who has advised on similar incidents before
BTW before anyone jumps on me - I own 2 dogs and both are fully insured to cover just such an event and as a responsible owner believe that when walking near a road all dogs should be on a leash as even the most obedient dog can get the urge to chase
Mark
Sorry to hear of your mishap, but this could happen to us all. However with this being a dog you hit (it is sheep you need to be aware of near me and for them on Dartmoor it's different) all may not be lost as the usual car insurance approach to writing off etc may not apply. This is because the dog owner is liable for the damage even if he hasn't insured his dog because it is his responsibility to have the animal under control at all times. This means you may have to go to court to pursue (if he's not insured - house insurance can sometimes cover this) but it is him/her who is legally responsible for returning your P&J to the condition it was in prior to the accident. Therefore:
1. Was the owner of the dog there?
2. If so then why wasn't it on a leash?
3. Did you get his/her name and address?
4. Is the dog insured? You should be aware that the owner is liable for all the damage.
5. Check the general forum as there is an individual on there (a solicitor I believe) who has advised on similar incidents before
BTW before anyone jumps on me - I own 2 dogs and both are fully insured to cover just such an event and as a responsible owner believe that when walking near a road all dogs should be on a leash as even the most obedient dog can get the urge to chase
Mark
Mark
Found the dog owner at a nearby house. Didn't want to grab details off them at the time as they were understandably completely gutted at what had happened to their dog (so was I, cars are just possessions but as you appreciate a dog should be a lifelong companion).
When talking through with the insurers about "should I have gotten the owners details" they didn't seem interested. You would have thought that they would have taken any opportunity to avoid them having to pay out???
Norman
The insurers are using their nominated repairers, who I assume will be tin car repairers with no fibreglass specialisation. Time will tell.
Given a probable value of, say, £3,500 and a best case of a new clamshell (£1,000 ?) and a front end respray (£1,000 ?), factor in a fair amount of labour and the sums don't end up looking too good.
Worst case with a deformed main tub closing up the door aperture and I don't know how they fix it. Surely it cannot be 'pulled' out like a steel body?
Anyway I need to see the assessor when he comes out to talk it through. I will post more as this progresses.
Bob
Found the dog owner at a nearby house. Didn't want to grab details off them at the time as they were understandably completely gutted at what had happened to their dog (so was I, cars are just possessions but as you appreciate a dog should be a lifelong companion).
When talking through with the insurers about "should I have gotten the owners details" they didn't seem interested. You would have thought that they would have taken any opportunity to avoid them having to pay out???
Norman
The insurers are using their nominated repairers, who I assume will be tin car repairers with no fibreglass specialisation. Time will tell.
Given a probable value of, say, £3,500 and a best case of a new clamshell (£1,000 ?) and a front end respray (£1,000 ?), factor in a fair amount of labour and the sums don't end up looking too good.
Worst case with a deformed main tub closing up the door aperture and I don't know how they fix it. Surely it cannot be 'pulled' out like a steel body?
Anyway I need to see the assessor when he comes out to talk it through. I will post more as this progresses.
Bob
Mark
Found the dog owner at a nearby house. Didn't want to grab details off them at the time as they were understandably completely gutted at what had happened to their dog (so was I, cars are just possessions but as you appreciate a dog should be a lifelong companion).
When talking through with the insurers about "should I have gotten the owners details" they didn't seem interested. You would have thought that they would have taken any opportunity to avoid them having to pay out???
Norman
The insurers are using their nominated repairers, who I assume will be tin car repairers with no fibreglass specialisation. Time will tell.
Given a probable value of, say, £3,500 and a best case of a new clamshell (£1,000 ?) and a front end respray (£1,000 ?), factor in a fair amount of labour and the sums don't end up looking too good.
Worst case with a deformed main tub closing up the door aperture and I don't know how they fix it. Surely it cannot be 'pulled' out like a steel body?
Anyway I need to see the assessor when he comes out to talk it through. I will post more as this progresses.
Bob
Found the dog owner at a nearby house. Didn't want to grab details off them at the time as they were understandably completely gutted at what had happened to their dog (so was I, cars are just possessions but as you appreciate a dog should be a lifelong companion).
When talking through with the insurers about "should I have gotten the owners details" they didn't seem interested. You would have thought that they would have taken any opportunity to avoid them having to pay out???
Norman
The insurers are using their nominated repairers, who I assume will be tin car repairers with no fibreglass specialisation. Time will tell.
Given a probable value of, say, £3,500 and a best case of a new clamshell (£1,000 ?) and a front end respray (£1,000 ?), factor in a fair amount of labour and the sums don't end up looking too good.
Worst case with a deformed main tub closing up the door aperture and I don't know how they fix it. Surely it cannot be 'pulled' out like a steel body?
Anyway I need to see the assessor when he comes out to talk it through. I will post more as this progresses.
Bob
Don't ask me why I had to do this, but I had to replace the whole front end of mine a few years ago, and I would say you're not far off with your costs. Trevor Bee makes replacement bonnets (S1/2, S3 or V8) and they are around £1,000 as you say. Another grand for painting and another for labour and you won't be far out.
However, I would be very wary, very very wary, about letting this "nominated repairer" do it. I would be so wary that I would refuse to let them near it unless I saw other examples of their fibreglass work, not just recent work but stuff that had "weathered".
The new bonnet will need to be shaped slightly to fit the wings / scuttle, the inside will have to be sealed properly (if you don't, the fibre glass is porous and you'll get water / steam percolating upwards through the fibreglass and forming water blisters under the outer paint coat) and the painting itself is different from painting metal. You MUST get someone who knows what they are doing, specifically with fibre glass.
Paint bubbles within a month of getting the car back is NOT nice, believe me.
However, I would be very wary, very very wary, about letting this "nominated repairer" do it. I would be so wary that I would refuse to let them near it unless I saw other examples of their fibreglass work, not just recent work but stuff that had "weathered".
The new bonnet will need to be shaped slightly to fit the wings / scuttle, the inside will have to be sealed properly (if you don't, the fibre glass is porous and you'll get water / steam percolating upwards through the fibreglass and forming water blisters under the outer paint coat) and the painting itself is different from painting metal. You MUST get someone who knows what they are doing, specifically with fibre glass.
Paint bubbles within a month of getting the car back is NOT nice, believe me.
Hi Bob
Do you have a "classic" policy as many give the ability to specify the repairer and the right to salvage (if its a worst case senario). I woulod suggest a quick readup BEFORE the assessor arrives. Again i would suggest you contact someone from a specialist repairer and get their guidance, I know frank and would recommend him but failing that how about TVR Power Body Shop Coventry or David Gerald at Redditch
I would guess that the body tub would spring back into shape if it hasent cracked when removed from the chassis. Costs quoted seem about right to me.
Norman
Do you have a "classic" policy as many give the ability to specify the repairer and the right to salvage (if its a worst case senario). I woulod suggest a quick readup BEFORE the assessor arrives. Again i would suggest you contact someone from a specialist repairer and get their guidance, I know frank and would recommend him but failing that how about TVR Power Body Shop Coventry or David Gerald at Redditch
I would guess that the body tub would spring back into shape if it hasent cracked when removed from the chassis. Costs quoted seem about right to me.
Norman
What a bugger. And as you say, metal (glassfibre in our cases) can be repaired. The dog is gone.
However. you should not be forced to use their preferred repairer. This is a misconception. It normally involves you not getting the free hire or courtesy car etc but you should be able to specify you repairer of choice.
I bet the approved repairer will turn their back on fibreglass if they have no experience too.
How did the indicator lens cope ? That could be make or break at current pricing.
However. you should not be forced to use their preferred repairer. This is a misconception. It normally involves you not getting the free hire or courtesy car etc but you should be able to specify you repairer of choice.
I bet the approved repairer will turn their back on fibreglass if they have no experience too.
How did the indicator lens cope ? That could be make or break at current pricing.
Edited by tubbystu on Monday 3rd January 23:24
Bobhon said:
Mark
Found the dog owner at a nearby house. Didn't want to grab details off them at the time as they were understandably completely gutted at what had happened to their dog (so was I, cars are just possessions but as you appreciate a dog should be a lifelong companion).
When talking through with the insurers about "should I have gotten the owners details" they didn't seem interested. You would have thought that they would have taken any opportunity to avoid them having to pay out???
Didn't mean to seem unsympathetic to the dog or owners (if they had done everything to keep the dog in - from your description I assume it had escaped the garden or similar), but as a dog owner myself irresponsible owners give us all a bad name, I recognise that this may not be the case here, but a responsible owner will have a form of insurance on a dog (3rd party and no vets fees costs very little - my last one without vets fees cost under £20 for a year it is only those that include vets fees that cost the earth, each of my dogs costs as much as the TVR per annum Found the dog owner at a nearby house. Didn't want to grab details off them at the time as they were understandably completely gutted at what had happened to their dog (so was I, cars are just possessions but as you appreciate a dog should be a lifelong companion).
When talking through with the insurers about "should I have gotten the owners details" they didn't seem interested. You would have thought that they would have taken any opportunity to avoid them having to pay out???
).Your insurance company won't worry to much about claiming back as it'll probably cost them to pursue and the write off value is likely to be low, cost to benefit approach applies here. My point on the insurance is to ask the owner for details of his dog insurance and claim direct from them as most policies have 3rd party liabilities of £1M or £3M, you can do this by writing a simple letter to his pet insurance provider with quotes for repairs. If they are not insured then the court route is the only way (i.e. sue the owner) but as you said this is probably not the best thing to do in the circumstances and then you would be better leaving it to your motor insurer.
I also agree with the OP about preferred repairers. I don't believe there is anything they can legally do to make you go to their repairer other than ensure you get multiple quotes if you don't so make it difficult for you to do otherwise.
Mark
Take a look on here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Car not economical to repair so insurance company gives estimated repair cost plus damaged car to the owner to self repair, worth exploring, better to save one than break it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Car not economical to repair so insurance company gives estimated repair cost plus damaged car to the owner to self repair, worth exploring, better to save one than break it.
Thanks for all of the letters of support and advice, much appreciated at the moment. It's nice to know that you're all out there.
I've checked out the insurance policy and I can use any repairer I would care to nominate........ However if I don't use the insurers repairer then they will limit their payout to £300
. Yes that's hundreds .
I agree about the risks of letting a tin repairer fix fibreglass cars. The insurers said that all repairs would be warranted for 5 years, which is a bonus.
Until the assessor comes out to look over the car and talk to me about how we go forwards from here then it's all just speculation. If I were a tin car repairer then I'd run a mile from quoting on a fibreglass car and being stuck with having to mend the car at a fixed price without knowing what I was doing.
Bob
I've checked out the insurance policy and I can use any repairer I would care to nominate........ However if I don't use the insurers repairer then they will limit their payout to £300
. Yes that's hundreds .I agree about the risks of letting a tin repairer fix fibreglass cars. The insurers said that all repairs would be warranted for 5 years, which is a bonus.
Until the assessor comes out to look over the car and talk to me about how we go forwards from here then it's all just speculation. If I were a tin car repairer then I'd run a mile from quoting on a fibreglass car and being stuck with having to mend the car at a fixed price without knowing what I was doing.
Bob
Barkychoc said:
Sorry Bob but its difficult to see how it won't be written off - I believe if the initial quote is more than 50% of the cars value they write it off. You'll be looking at that much with the bonnet alone.
When I smashed my Triumph up I got a cheque for about 90% the value of the car less the excess to spend on repairing it myself. I then of course spent about 10 minutes digging enough spares out of the shed to make it drivable and carried on using it (with the front not quite straight and one front wing entirely the wrong colour) until I ran out of spare engines. Sooner or later I will run out of other things to do then it'll get about three times the insurance payout spent on fixing it.Edited by zombeh on Wednesday 5th January 21:05
The insurance assessor came round today and it doesn't look good. He seems to think that the cost of a new clamshell and its fitting and painting alone would probably cost enough to write her off.
Apparently it's the hours you have to spend making it fit the car properly, prepping the panels and painting them that really drives up the cost.
He will be putting in his repair estimate over the weekend and I should hear from the insurance company by next Friday on whether or not it's a write off.
Bob
Apparently it's the hours you have to spend making it fit the car properly, prepping the panels and painting them that really drives up the cost.
He will be putting in his repair estimate over the weekend and I should hear from the insurance company by next Friday on whether or not it's a write off.
Bob
Bobhon said:
Apparently it's the hours you have to spend making it fit the car properly, prepping the panels and painting them that really drives up the cost.
I hate to say I told you so, but...tvrgit said:
The new bonnet will need to be shaped slightly to fit the wings / scuttle, the inside will have to be sealed properly (if you don't, the fibre glass is porous and you'll get water / steam percolating upwards through the fibreglass and forming water blisters under the outer paint coat) and the painting itself is different from painting metal...
I've been there, done that!Sorry to hear your news. If you are pragmatic it depends if you have a deep attachment to that particular car (I have to mine) and would want to rebuild it. Or you can walk away and find another S(?) to replace your old car. This is assuming that you can buy another car without significant extra expenditure over your insurance payout. There is not a 'right' or politically correct answer to this - I have bonded to some quite mundane cars and other more desirable machinery has left me cold... Having said that, my car had a new clamshell and much work done by Steve Edwards in Halifax before I bought the car and I would recommend his work (usual disclaimer). Either way I hope things are sorted to your satisfaction. You are always welcome to come and have a ride in my car if you are getting TVR withdrawal symptoms. As you may be aware I am not too far from you. It would be good to have another S get together in the Midlands when the weather is a little milder.
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