"No Warranty" from dealer
Discussion
I often see car for sale at dealers where the advert states "P/X to clear - no warranty" or words to that effect. Is this legal? If a car is being sold to a member of the public, not the trade, are there not at least some statutory rights that can be relied on if it turns out to be a dog?
tog said:
I often see car for sale at dealers where the advert states "P/X to clear - no warranty" or words to that effect. Is this legal? If a car is being sold to a member of the public, not the trade, are there not at least some statutory rights that can be relied on if it turns out to be a dog?
If I wear a sticker on my forehead that says "no prosecutions" then stab the dealer in the face, does that mean he has no statutory rights?The dealer cannot waive your statutory rights.
That is, he has to provide a vehicle fit for purpose, as described and to last a reasonable length of time.
Of course, as we've seen on several threads, those terms are subjective to say the least....
The dealer can sell a car without a warranty, which is what generally happens with old P/X vehicles.
That is, he has to provide a vehicle fit for purpose, as described and to last a reasonable length of time.
Of course, as we've seen on several threads, those terms are subjective to say the least....
The dealer can sell a car without a warranty, which is what generally happens with old P/X vehicles.
I assume you mean a trader rather than a franchised dealer.
It's easy to solve... just never buy from anyone who is to blatantly trying to get out of legal rights. Though the legal rights are a bit vague...
It's a greyer area with a very old car - eg, a 1955 classic, but as the buyer would be performing a much higher level of inspection, the reality is that few issues occur.
It's easy to solve... just never buy from anyone who is to blatantly trying to get out of legal rights. Though the legal rights are a bit vague...
It's a greyer area with a very old car - eg, a 1955 classic, but as the buyer would be performing a much higher level of inspection, the reality is that few issues occur.
CraigyMc said:
tog said:
I often see car for sale at dealers where the advert states "P/X to clear - no warranty" or words to that effect. Is this legal? If a car is being sold to a member of the public, not the trade, are there not at least some statutory rights that can be relied on if it turns out to be a dog?
If I wear a sticker on my forehead that says "no prosecutions" then stab the dealer in the face, does that mean he has no statutory rights?
The dealer doesnt have to provide a warranty, but he has to warrant the car is as he is describing it.
EG, if you buy the car and it turns out the clutch is slipping, it is reasonably easy to prove the fault must have been there at the time of sale, therefore the dealer must correct it.
How far that can be pushed is open to debate. If you had to take it to court, variances will be the price you paid for the car, the price you paid for the car relative to the advertised price, the age of the car, the wording of the advertisement, the mileage on the car, etc. The court may decide that an exhaust blowing after four weeks on a £1500 car is wear and tear for example.
Also, you might well have the law on your side, but getting someone to enforce it to the point of the dealer accepting responsibility may be difficult, time consuming and stress inducing.
EG, if you buy the car and it turns out the clutch is slipping, it is reasonably easy to prove the fault must have been there at the time of sale, therefore the dealer must correct it.
How far that can be pushed is open to debate. If you had to take it to court, variances will be the price you paid for the car, the price you paid for the car relative to the advertised price, the age of the car, the wording of the advertisement, the mileage on the car, etc. The court may decide that an exhaust blowing after four weeks on a £1500 car is wear and tear for example.
Also, you might well have the law on your side, but getting someone to enforce it to the point of the dealer accepting responsibility may be difficult, time consuming and stress inducing.
daemon said:
The dealer doesnt have to provide a warranty, but he has to warrant the car is as he is describing it.
EG, if you buy the car and it turns out the clutch is slipping, it is reasonably easy to prove the fault must have been there at the time of sale, therefore the dealer must correct it.
How far that can be pushed is open to debate. If you had to take it to court, variances will be the price you paid for the car, the price you paid for the car relative to the advertised price, the age of the car, the wording of the advertisement, the mileage on the car, etc. The court may decide that an exhaust blowing after four weeks on a £1500 car is wear and tear for example.
Also, you might well have the law on your side, but getting someone to enforce it to the point of the dealer accepting responsibility may be difficult, time consuming and stress inducing.
If they told you the clutch was slipping before you bought it there would be no comeback though, right?EG, if you buy the car and it turns out the clutch is slipping, it is reasonably easy to prove the fault must have been there at the time of sale, therefore the dealer must correct it.
How far that can be pushed is open to debate. If you had to take it to court, variances will be the price you paid for the car, the price you paid for the car relative to the advertised price, the age of the car, the wording of the advertisement, the mileage on the car, etc. The court may decide that an exhaust blowing after four weeks on a £1500 car is wear and tear for example.
Also, you might well have the law on your side, but getting someone to enforce it to the point of the dealer accepting responsibility may be difficult, time consuming and stress inducing.
busta said:
daemon said:
The dealer doesnt have to provide a warranty, but he has to warrant the car is as he is describing it.
EG, if you buy the car and it turns out the clutch is slipping, it is reasonably easy to prove the fault must have been there at the time of sale, therefore the dealer must correct it.
How far that can be pushed is open to debate. If you had to take it to court, variances will be the price you paid for the car, the price you paid for the car relative to the advertised price, the age of the car, the wording of the advertisement, the mileage on the car, etc. The court may decide that an exhaust blowing after four weeks on a £1500 car is wear and tear for example.
Also, you might well have the law on your side, but getting someone to enforce it to the point of the dealer accepting responsibility may be difficult, time consuming and stress inducing.
Yes. Correct. If the car was advertised as having a slipping clutch OR the dealer specifically drew your attention to it and marked it on the invoice, then the buyer would have no comeback on it.EG, if you buy the car and it turns out the clutch is slipping, it is reasonably easy to prove the fault must have been there at the time of sale, therefore the dealer must correct it.
How far that can be pushed is open to debate. If you had to take it to court, variances will be the price you paid for the car, the price you paid for the car relative to the advertised price, the age of the car, the wording of the advertisement, the mileage on the car, etc. The court may decide that an exhaust blowing after four weeks on a £1500 car is wear and tear for example.
Also, you might well have the law on your side, but getting someone to enforce it to the point of the dealer accepting responsibility may be difficult, time consuming and stress inducing.
If they told you the clutch was slipping before you bought it there would be no comeback though, right?
This is the old "rights" and "remedies" question.
Yes, if a private individual buys from a dealer/trader you have some "rights" under the SOGA. The car is supposed to match its description and be of satisfactory quality.
If the dealer/trader says sold without warranty then,
i) You've only got any comeback if the car's a real dog, and
ii) Even then, it's going to be uphill all the way if you want him to "remedy" anything. You might eventually win in court under SOGA but he's not going to make it easy for you.
Yes, if a private individual buys from a dealer/trader you have some "rights" under the SOGA. The car is supposed to match its description and be of satisfactory quality.
If the dealer/trader says sold without warranty then,
i) You've only got any comeback if the car's a real dog, and
ii) Even then, it's going to be uphill all the way if you want him to "remedy" anything. You might eventually win in court under SOGA but he's not going to make it easy for you.
Muzzer said:
That is, he has to provide a vehicle fit for purpose, as described and to last a reasonable length of time.
I think this is an important point in relation to this. If a car is being sold as a banger basically and may have issues, so long as the traders describes it so, then the buyer is buying in full knowledge, so fail or not, it would be as described.p/x to clear is really only one rung up from 'spares or repair'.
tog said:
Excellent, that's what I'd thought. I tend to think that the aftermarket warranties are usually riddled with so many get out clauses that they are rarely worth having anyway, but the law is always useful to have on your side.
Actually my experience with the aftermarket warranties are very good.Last car for example, 1.4l Auto Corsa as a runabout. Under the 3 month dealer warranty got the head gasket repaired, and later on the alternator went, that was repaired as well.
All in all, probably cost the value of the car to repair it, I didn't pay a penny
clarkey said:
If a buyer accepts a car on this basis they will really struggle to argue afterwards. Treat it as a private seller and it'll be fine. Also, I believe a dealer can sell any car through auction and not be bound by SOGA - other than describing the car accurately. Is this correct?
Yes, on both counts. Rights cannot be removed but "circumstances and nature of sale" is a clause.Let's face it - if it is advertised as such, and you buy it as such, then I don't think the buyer should have much if any comeback. If you don't like it, buy elsewhere.
confused_buyer said:
Let's face it - if it is advertised as such, and you buy it as such, then I don't think the buyer should have much if any comeback. If you don't like it, buy elsewhere.
I agree, but if he is prepared to sell it in the course of his business it should still of a certain standard and I as a punter should expect that - that's what the law is there for. tog said:
confused_buyer said:
Let's face it - if it is advertised as such, and you buy it as such, then I don't think the buyer should have much if any comeback. If you don't like it, buy elsewhere.
I agree, but if he is prepared to sell it in the course of his business it should still of a certain standard and I as a punter should expect that - that's what the law is there for. tog said:
confused_buyer said:
Let's face it - if it is advertised as such, and you buy it as such, then I don't think the buyer should have much if any comeback. If you don't like it, buy elsewhere.
I agree, but if he is prepared to sell it in the course of his business it should still of a certain standard and I as a punter should expect that - that's what the law is there for. It all comes down to how it is described, price and what it is. There is no law that says it has to be road legal or in working condition or even reliable.
Think about it, a trader may sell a classic car that needs a restoration and an engine rebuild. Doesn't mean it might not have MoT or Tax though. So it could in theory be road legal but a wreck. So long as it's described as such then it is fully legal, and somewhat obvious.
So therefore selling a car as px to clear is not any different. If they state facts (known facts) and don't lie or claim untruths. Then it's fully legal no matter the condition.
tog said:
confused_buyer said:
Let's face it - if it is advertised as such, and you buy it as such, then I don't think the buyer should have much if any comeback. If you don't like it, buy elsewhere.
I agree, but if he is prepared to sell it in the course of his business it should still of a certain standard and I as a punter should expect that - that's what the law is there for. I think in some ways it is a shame for the not insignifcant number of people who knew their cars who used to buy them eyes wide open this way. They'd get a cheap px out of a dealer which they knew might need a bit of work just as it came in - nowdays virtually no dealers will do such a thing because of the 1/100 idiots who think because they've seen an episode of Watchdog they can get all clever, buy a car at trade and then turn all legal when they want full cover.
I'm not defending dodgy dealers but I do think there has to be room for two parties to negotiate the terms of a deal.
You guys are drifting a litle way from reality. Sure, junk can be sold as junk. But the fact is that a trader selling "cars" is required to be selling "cars which are of reasonable quality and match their description, taking account of the price paid".
It doesn't let dodgy dealers get away with anything they like. However, as a buyer it pays to take a sensible approach - even if you aren't expected to know all the ins and outs of SOGA.
It doesn't let dodgy dealers get away with anything they like. However, as a buyer it pays to take a sensible approach - even if you aren't expected to know all the ins and outs of SOGA.
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