Why is it fair that "the rich should pay more"?
Why is it fair that "the rich should pay more"?
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Kermit power

Original Poster:

29,622 posts

243 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
I don't object to taxation in principle. I want us to have a police force, roads, hospitals, schools and all that stuff, and it's got to be paid for somehow.

I wouldn't object to the notion that if I earned £100k a year, I'd pay twice as much tax as if I earned £50k.

How on earth, though, have we managed to arrive at an apparent consensus position which says that it's normal and fair for someone on £100k to pay a higher percentage of their earnings as the person on £50k??

Isn't this rather like going to a shop to be told that the price for a single pair of socks is £1, but if you want to buy 500 pairs, they'll be £1.50 a pair?

Wouldn't it be fairer to have a system whereby the tax bands actually decrease as a percentage when your earnings increase? After all, the more you earn, the less you're actually likely to use the services tax revenues are spent on, and if you're already paying a significantly higher amount of cash in tax, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to pay a slightly lower percentage of your total income?

It annoys me that this does not happen. irked

will_

6,035 posts

233 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
It's not "fair", but the crusties always cry that it's because "they can afford to".

Greenie

1,850 posts

271 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
The price of democracy I'm afraid. Suppression of a minority group.

ZesPak

26,149 posts

226 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
I completely agree.

Though you have to have a minimum, I'd say something like this would be fair:

first £1500/month aren't taxed at all, everything above is taxed equally.

That way the ones with a low income still pay (relatively) less taxes than the ones with a higher income.
I do agree that going higher it actually rises your tax percentage, as you said: you're likely to not need social services, or will ever need them for that matter, you're possibly contributing to society, even providing employment perhaps.

But yes, the votes are cast, and 50% of the population earn less than the national average.

Legend83

10,588 posts

252 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
How about just setting one rate for all with a lower limit taking the poorest out of tax?

But, I hear you all cry, who dictates what level is 'the poorest'. That is the tricky bit.

anonymous-user

84 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
Come on people, its obvious. Its so that the coalition government can pay for all their hollow promises. Or so yorkshire people and students would have you believe. In reality, its so that we can give lots of money away in aid abroad, even though labour got us £1.4 trillion in debt, and free healthcare to all the immigrants, even though labour got us £1.4 trillion in debt, and helps to support all the dole spoungers who refuse to get a job, but dont loose their money as all they do is threaten to kick peoples heads in and hey presto, they get money. Thats why your tax is going up

surrey7er

3,950 posts

299 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
will_ said:
It's not "fair", but the crusties always cry that it's because "they can afford to".
None of these fecktards seem to grasp the downsides of 'taxing the rich'.

It smacks of bitterness and envy; qualities which are far too evident in this land...

Hugo a Gogo

23,437 posts

263 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
it's more that lower earners can't afford to pay their actual share

if the level of services was set at a rate that everyone could afford to pay the same share (everyone's got basic living expenses), those services would be much lower quality (hard to imagine, I know)

then the wealthy would set up fully private health care, private security, gated communities etc

it would be lovely, I'm sure

ErnestM

11,621 posts

297 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
solution -

flat tax (say 10%)
no deductions
tax benefits as well (as it is "income")

louiebaby

10,989 posts

221 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
The question I've always wondered is:

If all the loopholes that rich people with clever accountants jump through were closed, by for instance making everything over £18,000 a year taxed at 30%, regardless, would the country take in more or less tax?

Mind you...

It would have to be worldwide to stop people playing silly buggers, and a single world currency too. And rates. Infact, why not just pay everyone the same. That would be fairer.

Why has nobody tried this???

Brother D

4,452 posts

206 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
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Flat rate tax works. have a look at Hong Kong for an example.

grim_d

765 posts

220 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
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What I don't understand is how they work out tax bands, where somebody earning £37400 will come away with £24740 in their pocket but somebody earning £37450 will only come away with £18555.

I appreciate it's probably a rare situation to be in but it's still daft, doesn't affect me though since I'm unlikely to ever earn anywhere near that amount!

will_

6,035 posts

233 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
surrey7er said:
will_ said:
It's not "fair", but the crusties always cry that it's because "they can afford to".
None of these fecktards seem to grasp the downsides of 'taxing the rich'.

It smacks of bitterness and envy; qualities which are far too evident in this land...
Indeed. But it's easy to attack the "rich" because who is going to defend them?

And the planks forget that 50% of nothing is....nothing, but 25% (where I would put a flat tax rate) of a lot is a lot!

Knuckle-draggers support tax rises provided they only affect "the rich" i.e. not them...... But put a tax on everyone (such as VAT) and it's "regressive".

inman999

34,954 posts

203 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
grim_d said:
What I don't understand is how they work out tax bands, where somebody earning £37400 will come away with £24740 in their pocket but somebody earning £37450 will only come away with £18555.

I appreciate it's probably a rare situation to be in but it's still daft, doesn't affect me though since I'm unlikely to ever earn anywhere near that amount!
That would not happen.


grim_d

765 posts

220 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
inman999 said:
grim_d said:
What I don't understand is how they work out tax bands, where somebody earning £37400 will come away with £24740 in their pocket but somebody earning £37450 will only come away with £18555.

I appreciate it's probably a rare situation to be in but it's still daft, doesn't affect me though since I'm unlikely to ever earn anywhere near that amount!
That would not happen.
Would not, but could.

Edited by grim_d on Tuesday 7th December 14:57

sleep envy

62,260 posts

279 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
ErnestM said:
solution -

flat tax (say 10%)
no deductions
tax benefits as well (as it is "income")
yes please

Pints

18,451 posts

224 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
grim_d said:
inman999 said:
grim_d said:
What I don't understand is how they work out tax bands, where somebody earning £37400 will come away with £24740 in their pocket but somebody earning £37450 will only come away with £18555.

I appreciate it's probably a rare situation to be in but it's still daft, doesn't affect me though since I'm unlikely to ever earn anywhere near that amount!
That would not happen.
Would not, but could.
It could if they changed the way PAYE is calculated. But that's not happening, is it?

grim_d

765 posts

220 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
Pints said:
grim_d said:
inman999 said:
grim_d said:
What I don't understand is how they work out tax bands, where somebody earning £37400 will come away with £24740 in their pocket but somebody earning £37450 will only come away with £18555.

I appreciate it's probably a rare situation to be in but it's still daft, doesn't affect me though since I'm unlikely to ever earn anywhere near that amount!
That would not happen.
Would not, but could.
It could if they changed the way PAYE is calculated. But that's not happening, is it?
What about (honest) self employed people?

BarnatosGhost

34,315 posts

283 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
I don't think its a question of principle. its more a pragmatic decision in that the tax for the kind of society the government decides it wants to run requires more money than a flat-rate system can reasonably provide.

Big Rod

6,265 posts

246 months

Tuesday 7th December 2010
quotequote all
grim_d said:
What I don't understand is how they work out tax bands, where somebody earning £37400 will come away with £24740 in their pocket but somebody earning £37450 will only come away with £18555.

I appreciate it's probably a rare situation to be in but it's still daft, doesn't affect me though since I'm unlikely to ever earn anywhere near that amount!
Doesn't quite work that way. Basically anything you earn over the band gets taxed at the higher rate, not everything you earn. took me a wee while to get my head around that.

IMHO, everyone should pay the same irrelevant of their income. Say £5k a year each for arguments sake. Let's face it, we all pay for the same services whether you earn £10k, £20k or £150k a year. Then it would be fair and maybe encourage some people to apply themselves more effectively.

I know it's riddled with flaws, and the great unwashed would jump up and down in defiance, but by my reckoning it's the simplest solution.

JM2PW.