Disc Replacement Surgery - other options?
Discussion
Hi All
Well, I've had lower back problems for a couple of years now. It's more lack of mobility than pain. I eventually had an MRI scan in August and had an appointment with the NHS back specialist this week to discuss the results.
So, it turns out I have three 'degenerative' lumbar discs. The one in the middle is the most affected, with one either side also pretty bad. The specialist told me that they can replace the middle disc but it's quite a risky operation with 16 distinct risks, and that considering the other two discs were also in a poor state it might not be worth doing. She also said they wouldn't replace all three.
They've given me the option of steroid injections in the meantime to see if that helps in any way.
Has anyone else had a similar experience and gone through disc replacement surgery? Was it worth it? I'm only 34 and try and lead a healthy lifestyle with lots of gym time and football, which I'd like to continue!
Well, I've had lower back problems for a couple of years now. It's more lack of mobility than pain. I eventually had an MRI scan in August and had an appointment with the NHS back specialist this week to discuss the results.
So, it turns out I have three 'degenerative' lumbar discs. The one in the middle is the most affected, with one either side also pretty bad. The specialist told me that they can replace the middle disc but it's quite a risky operation with 16 distinct risks, and that considering the other two discs were also in a poor state it might not be worth doing. She also said they wouldn't replace all three.
They've given me the option of steroid injections in the meantime to see if that helps in any way.
Has anyone else had a similar experience and gone through disc replacement surgery? Was it worth it? I'm only 34 and try and lead a healthy lifestyle with lots of gym time and football, which I'd like to continue!
The Nur said:
Unfortunately I haven't anything much constructive to say other than the best of luck to you.
Also, how long have they been doing replacement disks? It's a new one on me
Crikey, that was quick! Also, how long have they been doing replacement disks? It's a new one on me
Yep, I believe it's a very new procedure which is probably why she was reluctant to recommend getting all three done.
ETA: Useful link, especially the pdf's at the bottom.
Edited by Mazdarese on Thursday 2nd December 16:12
I'm having a very slow day today, the F5 key is my friendTBH, from a completely non-medical point of view, the idea of taking three discs out of someone's spine sounds a little bit like madness. Then again, I'm not a top-flight surgeon so it is not my place to pass judgement on such things
The Nur said:
I'm having a very slow day today, the F5 key is my friendTBH, from a completely non-medical point of view, the idea of taking three discs out of someone's spine sounds a little bit like madness. Then again, I'm not a top-flight surgeon so it is not my place to pass judgement on such things
I recently suffered a prolapsed disk and went to see a neurosurgeon I see every year for a different reason as he is also a back specialist. His area of interest and research is cervical disk replacement (as opposed to lumbar in your case). I asked about disk replacement surgery out of curiosity and he told me that it is rare in the UK, but popular in France and Germany and increasingly in the USA. Common practice here is spinal fusion.
There are articles out there on it. From what I know, it involves going in from the front, retracting the intestine, bladder etc, removing the disc and replacing with a cobolt/titanium equivalent. There is a risk of rejection, however recovery time is far superior to disk fusion as there is less bone grafting and graft integration required.
Wikipedia has a brief description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervertebral_disc_a...
Its not something I would consider lightly, and I would want to be seen by an experienced neurosurgeon before making a decision.
There are articles out there on it. From what I know, it involves going in from the front, retracting the intestine, bladder etc, removing the disc and replacing with a cobolt/titanium equivalent. There is a risk of rejection, however recovery time is far superior to disk fusion as there is less bone grafting and graft integration required.
Wikipedia has a brief description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervertebral_disc_a...
Its not something I would consider lightly, and I would want to be seen by an experienced neurosurgeon before making a decision.
Edited by douglasr on Friday 3rd December 11:56
Edited by douglasr on Friday 3rd December 11:58
My wife had spinal fusion surgery to address issues with a degenerative disk which was damaged as the result of a car crash.
She had the procedure about 10 years ago when she was in her late 20s - disk repalcement wasn't an option then although as you indicate is now becoming more prevalent in dealing with degenerative disks.
Prior to the procedure she was in constant and increasing pain which increasingly affected her ability to undertake any vaguely strenuous activity. The procedure itself was a pretty big deal - it's certainly a very invasive procedure with some substantive risks involved - she required pretty constant care for the month or so after the procedure until she could drive/do things independently. It took about 6 months to recover from the procudure completely with regular physio sessions.
Her quality of life after she'd recovered from the procedure was transformed however. She runs 5 miles every day and goes to the gym 5 times a week, which would have been imposible in her condition before the procedure.
The procedure (although as above my experience is with spinal fusion not disk replacement) is a very big deal, but in our experience life changing hugely for the better.
Good luck.
She had the procedure about 10 years ago when she was in her late 20s - disk repalcement wasn't an option then although as you indicate is now becoming more prevalent in dealing with degenerative disks.
Prior to the procedure she was in constant and increasing pain which increasingly affected her ability to undertake any vaguely strenuous activity. The procedure itself was a pretty big deal - it's certainly a very invasive procedure with some substantive risks involved - she required pretty constant care for the month or so after the procedure until she could drive/do things independently. It took about 6 months to recover from the procudure completely with regular physio sessions.
Her quality of life after she'd recovered from the procedure was transformed however. She runs 5 miles every day and goes to the gym 5 times a week, which would have been imposible in her condition before the procedure.
The procedure (although as above my experience is with spinal fusion not disk replacement) is a very big deal, but in our experience life changing hugely for the better.
Good luck.
Interesting, thanks Chaps.
Seight_Returns said:
The procedure itself was a pretty big deal - it's certainly a very invasive procedure with some substantive risks involved - she required pretty constant care for the month or so after the procedure until she could drive/do things independently. It took about 6 months to recover from the procudure completely with regular physio sessions.
This concerns me. I work for myself so if I take time off, I don't get paid. Can you remember how much time your wife too off work? My work is just general office-based.Seight_Returns said:
Her quality of life after she'd recovered from the procedure was transformed however. She runs 5 miles every day and goes to the gym 5 times a week, which would have been imposible in her condition before the procedure.
The procedure (although as above my experience is with spinal fusion not disk replacement) is a very big deal, but in our experience life changing hugely for the better.
That's great news. I was going to ask if she had much reduced mobility after the fusion, but it sounds like she manages just fine!The procedure (although as above my experience is with spinal fusion not disk replacement) is a very big deal, but in our experience life changing hugely for the better.
Mazdarese said:
Interesting, thanks Chaps.
This concerns me. I work for myself so if I take time off, I don't get paid. Can you remember how much time your wife too off work? My work is just general office-based.
I think she had about 3 months off in total - but she hated her job at the time and frankly I think she was malingering. She was driving and doing everyday activities -albeit under instructions to avoid lifting etc - after a month.This concerns me. I work for myself so if I take time off, I don't get paid. Can you remember how much time your wife too off work? My work is just general office-based.
I also suspect that since spinal fusion is effectively a bone graft - the recovery period is probably longer than for synthetic disc replacement. Also her recovery was complicated by some nerve damage in the area where the bone was taken from for the graft - which obvilouly also won't be a problem with synthetic disc replacement.
It was a very big deal and the souce of much anxiety at the time - but her life is so, so much better for having it done.
Edited by Seight_Returns on Friday 3rd December 16:50
Since you are self employed, maybe you should look at this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6298593.stm
Here is some info on fusion:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Back-pain/Pages/Treat...
Fusion risks and recovery:
http://www.srht.nhs.uk/EasySiteWeb/getresource.axd...
And finally a case history for disk replacement:
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=40...
I sympathise, but remember that although there are lots of risks, the doctors have to tell you about them. The statistics are on your side in terms of improvement or even removal of your symptoms. Surgery is always the last resort, so make sure you have exhausted all other treatments.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6298593.stm
Here is some info on fusion:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Back-pain/Pages/Treat...
Fusion risks and recovery:
http://www.srht.nhs.uk/EasySiteWeb/getresource.axd...
And finally a case history for disk replacement:
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=40...
I sympathise, but remember that although there are lots of risks, the doctors have to tell you about them. The statistics are on your side in terms of improvement or even removal of your symptoms. Surgery is always the last resort, so make sure you have exhausted all other treatments.
Hi
I've bored a lot of people on here with my back problems over the years - two operations. L4/5 L5 S1 discectomys both places - twice. - neither have worked still in immense pain every day - on pain patches/pregabalin/dihydro/tramadol/amytrip - everything. Going to see specialist again next week looks like Lateral Recess Spendosis.
only telling you this because I wish to god I'd never gone under the knife. I was in intolerable pain when my back "went" and had no quality of life - surgery was my only option. Everyone is different and perhaps injections may work for you - perhaps the op might be 100% effective and that will be you. Who knows. Don't mean to sound nasty/unhelpful or anything, just giving my side of things.
I'm a member/donate/speak to these guys. http://www.backcare.org.uk Very nice people who do a great job - always offer good advice and in my case got someone who had exactly what I had done call me at home - an hours chat with someone - a volunteer - who understood what I was on about.
Contact them - feel free to pm me with any questions if you like.
All the best
Barry
I've bored a lot of people on here with my back problems over the years - two operations. L4/5 L5 S1 discectomys both places - twice. - neither have worked still in immense pain every day - on pain patches/pregabalin/dihydro/tramadol/amytrip - everything. Going to see specialist again next week looks like Lateral Recess Spendosis.
only telling you this because I wish to god I'd never gone under the knife. I was in intolerable pain when my back "went" and had no quality of life - surgery was my only option. Everyone is different and perhaps injections may work for you - perhaps the op might be 100% effective and that will be you. Who knows. Don't mean to sound nasty/unhelpful or anything, just giving my side of things.
I'm a member/donate/speak to these guys. http://www.backcare.org.uk Very nice people who do a great job - always offer good advice and in my case got someone who had exactly what I had done call me at home - an hours chat with someone - a volunteer - who understood what I was on about.
Contact them - feel free to pm me with any questions if you like.
All the best
Barry
Edited by Craphouserat on Friday 3rd December 19:23
A mate of mine had disc replacement surgery just over a year ago.
Prior to that he couldn't cough, sneeze without being in excruciating pain.
I'm not sure of all the details but he had a discogram and other treatment ( of which the effects didn't last long) before taking the plunge on a replacement.
To say he's had a stunning new lease of life is an understatement!
He's started indoor climbing, cycles regularly and can even do his 'Dad dancing' with no ill effects. (he's 44)
I'm sure he wouldn't mind you messaging him from here - Matts360 is his username although he's not on here often.
Prior to that he couldn't cough, sneeze without being in excruciating pain.
I'm not sure of all the details but he had a discogram and other treatment ( of which the effects didn't last long) before taking the plunge on a replacement.
To say he's had a stunning new lease of life is an understatement!
He's started indoor climbing, cycles regularly and can even do his 'Dad dancing' with no ill effects. (he's 44)
I'm sure he wouldn't mind you messaging him from here - Matts360 is his username although he's not on here often.
Thanks for all the replies, some very interesting reading in there.
What I'm going to do is go for the first injection and see how it goes, but I'm realistic and not expecting a miracle cure from it.
Long-term, I think I'd prefer disc replacement than the bone fusion if it's an option. I can actually live with the pain but it's the lack of mobility that pisses me off, having to squat down to pick anything up because I can't pivot at the middle is crap. I'm going to drop Matts360 a PM too and see if he can offer any advice.
Cheers all
What I'm going to do is go for the first injection and see how it goes, but I'm realistic and not expecting a miracle cure from it.
Long-term, I think I'd prefer disc replacement than the bone fusion if it's an option. I can actually live with the pain but it's the lack of mobility that pisses me off, having to squat down to pick anything up because I can't pivot at the middle is crap. I'm going to drop Matts360 a PM too and see if he can offer any advice.
Cheers all
I was 2 weeks away from surgery for a badly prolapsed disc. Had a number of injections, to no avail.
I went to a dinner party and the host, seeing my pain, gave me some Voltarol. Hey presto i as a new man the next day. After 2 days the pain started returning so i rushed to my GP who prescribed said drug. Cancelled the surgery, took the drug for 1 year and only very occasionaly since then.
That was 10 years ago. this may not help anyone else but it saved me having a risky operation.
I went to a dinner party and the host, seeing my pain, gave me some Voltarol. Hey presto i as a new man the next day. After 2 days the pain started returning so i rushed to my GP who prescribed said drug. Cancelled the surgery, took the drug for 1 year and only very occasionaly since then.
That was 10 years ago. this may not help anyone else but it saved me having a risky operation.
Now then
Good start to research for Artifical Disc replacement is www.adrsupportuk.com (make sure you have UK in it)
Go to Forums, and then page 3, see my thread under 'Prodisc L', see what I have said about it.
Year ago had various MRI's, had damaged L5 S1 disc, had discogram to identify which one for sure under NHS, then booked in for replacement using Prodisc L (google it or Youtube it shows the operation involved). Had op on 18th december 2009, three days later up and walking about, no pain from the back, just wound on stomach (yes, they go in through the front for L5, easier to remove...) and that was it. Off work (no driving ) for 6 weeks, but fit and able to walk and live normally. Had the ok in May 2010 and been fit and active since.
Very good surgeon (Michael Grevitt - Nottm ), excellent job. Even fell over in the snow on Wednesday onto the botty, and no pain! Had a good year so far and will hopefully have no repercussions of 'that' pain.
any questions? ask away.
Actually, just you-tubed it, and not sure if you wnat to see anything before you have the op, there wasnt anywhere near the amount of vids on there when i last looked....perhaps I may not have been so ..brave. anyway, dont look, and get it done using the 'Prodisc L' from America, better than fusion, and IF it doesnt work, then fusion is still an option (cant do it the other way round..)
Good start to research for Artifical Disc replacement is www.adrsupportuk.com (make sure you have UK in it)
Go to Forums, and then page 3, see my thread under 'Prodisc L', see what I have said about it.
Year ago had various MRI's, had damaged L5 S1 disc, had discogram to identify which one for sure under NHS, then booked in for replacement using Prodisc L (google it or Youtube it shows the operation involved). Had op on 18th december 2009, three days later up and walking about, no pain from the back, just wound on stomach (yes, they go in through the front for L5, easier to remove...) and that was it. Off work (no driving ) for 6 weeks, but fit and able to walk and live normally. Had the ok in May 2010 and been fit and active since.
Very good surgeon (Michael Grevitt - Nottm ), excellent job. Even fell over in the snow on Wednesday onto the botty, and no pain! Had a good year so far and will hopefully have no repercussions of 'that' pain.
any questions? ask away.
Actually, just you-tubed it, and not sure if you wnat to see anything before you have the op, there wasnt anywhere near the amount of vids on there when i last looked....perhaps I may not have been so ..brave. anyway, dont look, and get it done using the 'Prodisc L' from America, better than fusion, and IF it doesnt work, then fusion is still an option (cant do it the other way round..)
Edited by matts360 on Monday 6th December 12:13
Edited by matts360 on Monday 6th December 12:15
Zip106 said:
A mate of mine had disc replacement surgery just over a year ago.
Prior to that he couldn't cough, sneeze without being in excruciating pain.
I'm not sure of all the details but he had a discogram and other treatment ( of which the effects didn't last long) before taking the plunge on a replacement.
To say he's had a stunning new lease of life is an understatement!
He's started indoor climbing, cycles regularly and can even do his 'Dad dancing' with no ill effects. (he's 44)
I'm sure he wouldn't mind you messaging him from here - Matts360 is his username although he's not on here often.
er - 45 Prior to that he couldn't cough, sneeze without being in excruciating pain.
I'm not sure of all the details but he had a discogram and other treatment ( of which the effects didn't last long) before taking the plunge on a replacement.
To say he's had a stunning new lease of life is an understatement!
He's started indoor climbing, cycles regularly and can even do his 'Dad dancing' with no ill effects. (he's 44)
I'm sure he wouldn't mind you messaging him from here - Matts360 is his username although he's not on here often.
Zip106 said:
I meant waist size
Ouch!Thanks for posting Matt. I've read your post on that forum and must say it's quite motivational! I'm going to show it to Mrs MA this evening and see what she thinks. What I will say, is if I can have results as positive as yours I'd have it done tomorrow.
Mazdarese said:
Zip106 said:
I meant waist size
Ouch!Thanks for posting Matt. I've read your post on that forum and must say it's quite motivational! I'm going to show it to Mrs MA this evening and see what she thinks. What I will say, is if I can have results as positive as yours I'd have it done tomorrow.
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Matt
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