RE: Death on the Roads
Friday 5th April 2002
Death on the Roads
Robert Farago wants accidents swept off the roads so he can get on with his daily business
Discussion
i really must disagree with Robert farrago's commentary on road deaths and motorway closures. Shouldn't there be some dignity for the dead and injured? It depends what value you place on human life. Personally i would rather wait in a queue (for hours if need be) and give emergency services time and space in which to tend to casualties at the scene, cut people free from wreckage and make the road safe for other users, instead of shovelling everything onto the hard shoulder and opening the barriers. Hey, how about an article angling for more patience and tolerance among motorists?
L Byrne
L Byrne
It seems to be the norm now, closure whilst dealing with the injured. No problem with that, god forbid it might be me one day and I would want all the care I could get. And if there are dead involved then I want them to find out what went wrong. If you are stuck in a jam its not nice but thats life.
I think the point was that the govornment should (probably won't) look for ways of preventing such a tragedy in the future. 
However I disagree that the public should be able to see all the gory details, How would any of us feel if our family died in a horrific accident like that, and some fat bast
ard is sat in the 'front row' in his car gawping at their remains. whilst munching on a dolly mixture? It's not a freak show!. 
However I disagree that the public should be able to see all the gory details, How would any of us feel if our family died in a horrific accident like that, and some fat bast
ard is sat in the 'front row' in his car gawping at their remains. whilst munching on a dolly mixture? It's not a freak show!. Maybe Mr Farago should spend some time working with me. I'm a Paramedic and have attended to many RTA's on the motorways. I'm sure he would not want to be working on the motorway, having to make life and death decisions, whilst also dodging the traffic. Trust me, when the traffic is still moving, no matter how slowly, it is exrtemely dangerous and not a little scary.
If, heaven forbid, he should have an accident on any road, I'm sure he'd be pleased if the road was closed so his life could be saved, or so that he could be airlifted to hospital.
Stopping this kind of the thing is simply a matter of educating the masses who switch off as soon as they get on the motorways (or any other road for that matter).
If, heaven forbid, he should have an accident on any road, I'm sure he'd be pleased if the road was closed so his life could be saved, or so that he could be airlifted to hospital.
Stopping this kind of the thing is simply a matter of educating the masses who switch off as soon as they get on the motorways (or any other road for that matter).
quote:
I think the point was that the govornment should (probably won't) look for ways of preventing such a tragedy in the future.
However I disagree that the public should be able to see all the gory details, How would any of us feel if our family died in a horrific accident like that, and some fat bast
Usually you have NO CHOICE about whether or not to watch the "freakshow". Last time it happened to me (and jolly sickening it was too) I was VERY glad to be three rows back and *unable* to see any of the details. Bleargh. My heartfelt admiration goes to those who deal with such things.
Having been stuck there I can, however, see both points of view. And to be fair the cops got one lane moving at the RTA I was at long before the whole thing was cleared...
Whether or not to let people by should surely be at the discretion of the professionals dealing with the situation....
There is a serious point to RF's piece. It's all very well saying "what price a human life?", but you can't run the world on the assumption that it is above price. In practice different organisations and you and me answer that question all the time. We only put so much money into the health system, we only spend so much money on life insurance, we have to calculate compensation.
If you start trying to calculate the cost of stopping the motorway for a couple of hours, you quickly bang up against some frighteningly numbers. You have to strike a balance between this cost, and the safety and integrity of the rescue operation. It is ducking an important question to just throw your arms up and say "sanctity of life, think of the family, everyone should be patient". For a start, families have a lot more to worry about than whether some stranger catches a glimpse of some blood.
If you start trying to calculate the cost of stopping the motorway for a couple of hours, you quickly bang up against some frighteningly numbers. You have to strike a balance between this cost, and the safety and integrity of the rescue operation. It is ducking an important question to just throw your arms up and say "sanctity of life, think of the family, everyone should be patient". For a start, families have a lot more to worry about than whether some stranger catches a glimpse of some blood.
Agreed,
It's not as if some people leave their respective houses and think "I know, I'll shut the M1 for a couple of hours today. Ah, here's a petrol tanker now - what opportunistic luck !
I sat on the M1 on Saturday for a few hours because some crazy old so and so forgot to tighten the bolts up on one of his wheels (Note to self: must try that one sometime). Did it bother me ? Not really. I just turned up the aircon, and turned up the stereo.
Accidents will happen.
It's not as if some people leave their respective houses and think "I know, I'll shut the M1 for a couple of hours today. Ah, here's a petrol tanker now - what opportunistic luck !
I sat on the M1 on Saturday for a few hours because some crazy old so and so forgot to tighten the bolts up on one of his wheels (Note to self: must try that one sometime). Did it bother me ? Not really. I just turned up the aircon, and turned up the stereo.
Accidents will happen.
This subject has come up before, in my view the road must be closed until casualties are cleared, however, I think the road should then be reopened and not wait until every last measurement has been made. These measurements can happen during the casualty clearing time. When casualties (alive or not) are cleared shovel the rest to the side and open the road.
quote:
Accidents will happen.
Sorry, no. There is no such thing as an accident. Everything that happens has a cause related to a human f
-up. Someone forgot to tighten his nuts (OUCH!), someone else didn't get their brakes serviced when they should've, some kid ran out without thinking. Not an accident, just carelessness in one degree or another. I thought Mr. Farago's comments were actually pretty thoughtless and way off the mark.
If an accident occurs, I think that police and emergency services are capable of making the decision whether or not it's neccessary to close the road.
And what about his comment that "accident's can ruin someone's whole day"? Accidents ruin lives...
If an accident occurs, I think that police and emergency services are capable of making the decision whether or not it's neccessary to close the road.
And what about his comment that "accident's can ruin someone's whole day"? Accidents ruin lives...
quote:
These measurements can happen during the casualty clearing time. When casualties (alive or not) are cleared shovel the rest to the side and open the road.
I can see your point, but it situations like this I just stand back and let the ambulance and fire service do there bit. That way I don't get in there way and they can get the casualty out of the way quicker, then I can get on and do my bit.
I can see how its frustrating having been there myself many times. Believe me when I say the though, patience shown by drivers at the scenes of RTA's is really appreciated. Especially so at time when a million things a running through my head. It makes it one less thing to worry about
The most interesting thing for me about Robert's piece was the fact that 'rubbernecking' the carnage after an accident is effectively similar to the materials the govt. use for preventing accidents. i.e. showing videos of fresh accidents to those convicted of dangerous driving etc.
I drove past the M40 pile-up of a month or so ago, and I couldn't help but notice a motorbike in the central barrier. I felt a shiver down my spine, 'felt' that the biker was probably dead, and re-assessed my general driving behaviour, all in a split second.
I suppose it did affect me a bit, made me a bit more aware of how precarious safety on the roads can be.
When I got into the office, I found out that the biker had died after all. Driving home, as anyone who has used the M40 recently will testify, was equally spooky. About ten miles of skid marks where lorries and cars had locked their brakes, many ending up in the reservation or on the hard shoulder, with dampish patches indicating where some kind of oil, water or gore had been cleared away.
I'm not condoning a 'viewing lane' (I think Robert was rabble rousing by then!), but it made me stop and think. Maybe one or two 'public information' films based on real incidents could be shown on TV, or to new drivers.
I drove past the M40 pile-up of a month or so ago, and I couldn't help but notice a motorbike in the central barrier. I felt a shiver down my spine, 'felt' that the biker was probably dead, and re-assessed my general driving behaviour, all in a split second.
I suppose it did affect me a bit, made me a bit more aware of how precarious safety on the roads can be.
When I got into the office, I found out that the biker had died after all. Driving home, as anyone who has used the M40 recently will testify, was equally spooky. About ten miles of skid marks where lorries and cars had locked their brakes, many ending up in the reservation or on the hard shoulder, with dampish patches indicating where some kind of oil, water or gore had been cleared away.
I'm not condoning a 'viewing lane' (I think Robert was rabble rousing by then!), but it made me stop and think. Maybe one or two 'public information' films based on real incidents could be shown on TV, or to new drivers.
I can agree with the safety reasons already given by others, but if we look at some cases of motorway closure, at times there appears to be little justification for it. A case not too long ago on the M11, where about 3.00am there was an accident and the motorway was closed to await the arrival of the investigation team at first light at 7.00am. I believe the accident was not cleared until mid morning. Which meant chaos in the morning rush hour, when in fact the carnage could have been cleared and the motorway operating normally by the start of the rush hour.
About 10/15 years ago, after the victims were best looked after, it was a priority to get the traffic moving again. In recent times it seems a priority to place the blame, irrespective of the time and therefore traffic chaos this causes. If you get out of bed, life becomes more dangerous. If you travel - it gets more dangerous still. If you have a 15 mile tailback for a few hours think of the frayed tempers and how many people are then trying to make up for lost time? This could lead to accidents further down the road! It seems when you have a few accidents in the morning rush hour this often seems to escalate until every major road has an accident. Is this coincidence?
About 10/15 years ago, after the victims were best looked after, it was a priority to get the traffic moving again. In recent times it seems a priority to place the blame, irrespective of the time and therefore traffic chaos this causes. If you get out of bed, life becomes more dangerous. If you travel - it gets more dangerous still. If you have a 15 mile tailback for a few hours think of the frayed tempers and how many people are then trying to make up for lost time? This could lead to accidents further down the road! It seems when you have a few accidents in the morning rush hour this often seems to escalate until every major road has an accident. Is this coincidence?
Slight asside but similar point. Driving up the A1 in Italy towards Milan and the traffic flows well. However, around Milan gets a little congested. Inside lane traffic pulls out and everyone carries on. What was the trouble - two blokes fixing a hole in the road...
Not an entire sealed off section, just two blokes - one with a flag and the other with the shovel - fixing the hole. Ok, can see the risky side of that, but why oh why do we have miles (and you have all seen them so you know what I am talking about) of roadworks with no sodding bu**ger doing anything to them.... nothing that a couple of blokes with a shovel and flag couldnt sort out....
Cheers,
Paul
Not an entire sealed off section, just two blokes - one with a flag and the other with the shovel - fixing the hole. Ok, can see the risky side of that, but why oh why do we have miles (and you have all seen them so you know what I am talking about) of roadworks with no sodding bu**ger doing anything to them.... nothing that a couple of blokes with a shovel and flag couldnt sort out....
Cheers,
Paul
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