March at RAF Lossiemouth

[Dixie68]

March in Scotland to save RAF Lossiemouth
Hmmm... funny old thing but when I was stationed at Kinloss and Lossie the comment I heard most frequently was, "Why don't you English fk off back to England?", my then wife couldn't find an NHS dentist and was told at one surgery, "We don't want English patients when there are Scots looking for a place", and most of the pubs at one time or another were closed to those of us in the RAF, (except for a few superb locations).
But no, it seems they loved us after all! Or is it the money they're now going to miss?

[ViperPict]

Dixie68 said:

March in Scotland to save RAF Lossiemouth
Hmmm... funny old thing but when I was stationed at Kinloss and Lossie the comment I heard most frequently was, "Why don't you English fk off back to England?", my then wife couldn't find an NHS dentist and was told at one surgery, "We don't want English patients when there are Scots looking for a place", and most of the pubs at one time or another were closed to those of us in the RAF, (except for a few superb locations).
But no, it seems they loved us after all! Or is it the money they're now going to miss?

Coming from the general area, I don't that what you heard while there was the consenusu of the population. The bottom line is that if Lossiemouth does go, the area is f**ked. It is the region of the UK that is most dependent on the armed forces for the economy and they've already lost Kinloss. I don't think the Westminster government will do it though as it'll really bolster the case for independence i.e., "all they care about is the south of England".

[s3fella]

I spent a brief time and Kinloss and had links to Lossie too.

What you say was also true in the early 1990's, the locals hated us. It just made us fly lower and noisier!

[Dixie68]

ViperPict said:

Coming from the general area, I don't that what you heard while there was the consenusu of the population. The bottom line is that if Lossiemouth does go, the area is f**ked. It is the region of the UK that is most dependent on the armed forces for the economy and they've already lost Kinloss. I don't think the Westminster government will do it though as it'll really bolster the case for independence i.e., "all they care about is the south of England".

It was a daily occurrence and I lived there for 9 years - my time at RAF Leuchars near St Andrews was a holiday by comparison, so I'm not having a go at the Scots, just the Moray versions. I'm not going to feel sorry for an area that treated us like crap and are now bleating because the RAF may leave. The local female SNP councillor was in the carpark of Wm Lows doing glad-handing and talking to her constituents while, coincidentally, there was a news crew with camera close by. She went to shake my wife's hand as we were walking to our car and as soon as she realised we were English she just turned her back on us. Hateful woman, whatever her name was (mid to late 90s).

Edited by Dixie68 on Sunday 7th November 20:14

[Dixie68]

s3fella said:

I spent a brief time and Kinloss and had links to Lossie too.

What you say was also true in the early 1990's, the locals hated us. It just made us fly lower and noisier!

Aircrew, or did you work for a living?

[NorthernBoy]

ViperPict said:

I don't think the Westminster government will do it though as it'll really bolster the case for independence i.e., "all they care about is the south of England".

That point is an interesting one, though.

Dump Scotland, and England becomes pretty comfortably Conservative, making Labour unable to govern here for a generation. It's interesting to speculate whether this is a worthwhile enough gain for the Tories to turn their backs on a country that has definitely turned its back on the Tories.

[ViperPict]

Dixie68 said:

ViperPict said:

Coming from the general area, I don't that what you heard while there was the consenusu of the population. The bottom line is that if Lossiemouth does go, the area is f**ked. It is the region of the UK that is most dependent on the armed forces for the economy and they've already lost Kinloss. I don't think the Westminster government will do it though as it'll really bolster the case for independence i.e., "all they care about is the south of England".

It was a daily occurrence and I lived there for 9 years - my time at RAF Leuchars near St Andrews was a holiday by comparison, so I'm not having a go at the Scots, just the Moray versions. I'm not going to feel sorry for an area that treated us like crap and are now bleating because the RAF may leave. The local female SNP councillor was in the carpark of Wm Lows doing glad-handing and talking to her constituents while, coincidentally, there was a news crew with camera close by. She went to shake my wife's hand as we were walking to our car and as soon as she realised we were English she just turned her back on us. Hateful woman, whatever her name was (mid to late 90s).

Edited by Dixie68 on Sunday 7th November 20:14

The actions of past English folk (especially governments) has left a cultural, generational distrust of your nation up north. Not saying that's right (as individuals aren't to blame) but that's certainly the case. What I would say is that the one thing that winds the locals up in the north is English folk coming up to live for the good standard of living and then trying to change communities to how the home counties/ middle England are. So many examples of local councils that have individuals who try and do that, forgetting that there's a north 'culture' which is absolutely detached from even the central belt of Scotland, let alone England.

[Dixie68]

ViperPict said:

The actions of past English folk (especially governments) has left a cultural, generational distrust of your nation up north. Not saying that's right (as individuals aren't to blame) but that's certainly the case. What I would say is that the one thing that winds the locals up in the north is English folk coming up to live for the good standard of living and then trying to change communities to how the home counties/ middle England are. So many examples of local councils that have individuals who try and do that, forgetting that there's a north 'culture' which is absolutely detached from even the central belt of Scotland, let alone England.

I agree somewhat, but it was a shame that the people of Moray, (some people), couldn't have adopted the attitude that those in Fife seemed to. It may have made me feel sorry for them.

[ViperPict]

Dixie68 said:

ViperPict said:

The actions of past English folk (especially governments) has left a cultural, generational distrust of your nation up north. Not saying that's right (as individuals aren't to blame) but that's certainly the case. What I would say is that the one thing that winds the locals up in the north is English folk coming up to live for the good standard of living and then trying to change communities to how the home counties/ middle England are. So many examples of local councils that have individuals who try and do that, forgetting that there's a north 'culture' which is absolutely detached from even the central belt of Scotland, let alone England.

I agree somewhat, but it was a shame that the people of Moray, (some people), couldn't have adopted the attitude that those in Fife seemed to. It may have made me feel sorry for them.

To be fair with you, Moray is one of my least favourite areas of the north! Love Aberdeenshire and the Highlands but Moray and Buchan I find a bit cold, in more ways than one!

[Dixie68]

ViperPict said:

To be fair with you, Moray is one of my least favourite areas of the north! Love Aberdeenshire and the Highlands but Moray and Buchan I find a bit cold, in more ways than one!

I'm with you there about the Highlands (and Islands) - hill-walking in any weather there was breathtaking.

[whirligig]

Moray and Buchan have always been a hot-bed of Scottish Nationalism. Living in Helensburgh, my experience is that the community welcome the navy (and the many English "incomers") and realise that the mutual benefits to the town are many. Without the base at Faslane Helensburgh would become a ghost town very quickly. Maybe now many locals to the Lossie/Kinloss area are realising just how dependant they are on the RAF for their local ecomony.

[eharding]

ViperPict said:

The actions of past English folk (especially governments) has left a cultural, generational distrust of your nation up north. Not saying that's right (as individuals aren't to blame) but that's certainly the case. What I would say is that the one thing that winds the locals up in the north is English folk coming up to live for the good standard of living and then trying to change communities to how the home counties/ middle England are. So many examples of local councils that have individuals who try and do that, forgetting that there's a north 'culture' which is absolutely detached from even the central belt of Scotland, let alone England.

Um - all we would have to do in the paragraph above would be to substitute "English" with any one of the cultural and ethnic minorities that have certainly changed the social landscape in my neck of the woods, and that statement would send any number of swivel-eyed types into a foam-flecked frenzy of condemnation of such a racist standpoint, and to start banging on about "Little-Englanders".

If your assertion is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), why do we never hear the term "Little Scotlanders" being bandied about?

[ViperPict]

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

The actions of past English folk (especially governments) has left a cultural, generational distrust of your nation up north. Not saying that's right (as individuals aren't to blame) but that's certainly the case. What I would say is that the one thing that winds the locals up in the north is English folk coming up to live for the good standard of living and then trying to change communities to how the home counties/ middle England are. So many examples of local councils that have individuals who try and do that, forgetting that there's a north 'culture' which is absolutely detached from even the central belt of Scotland, let alone England.

Um - all we would have to do in the paragraph above would be to substitute "English" with any one of the cultural and ethnic minorities that have certainly changed the social landscape in my neck of the woods, and that statement would send any number of swivel-eyed types into a foam-flecked frenzy of condemnation of such a racist standpoint, and to start banging on about "Little-Englanders".

If your assertion is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), why do we never hear the term "Little Scotlanders" being bandied about?

There may well be 'little-Scotlanders' but I've never heard of any. But if they do exist, they're just as bad as the other way round. If you like a place enough to want to move there, I don't see the logic in trying to change it. Mind you, women seem to like to do that!

[eharding]

ViperPict said:

If you like a place enough to want to move there, I don't see the logic in trying to change it.

Without wanting to appear of the swivel-eyed type myself, I would suggest there are a plethora of areas in the UK where immigrant communities have arrived - radically changed the social and ethnic structure of the area - and certainly had a huge impact upon the local education system.

Personally, I'm all for it. At the very least, I'm a fan of most forms of ethnic food, and in Slough I can obtain any obscure ingredient, herb, spice, smoked meat product, funny looking pickles and heart-stopping cakes from shops catering for everyone from Eastern Europe to East Pakistan, all within a couple of hundred yards of street.

To claim that some parts of Scotland should be immune from the same process, because of a unique culture which might be sullied by immigration - be it from Bournemouth or Bangladesh - is to dance upon decidedly thin ice in these enlightened times.

Isn't it?

Edited by eharding on Sunday 7th November 21:25

[ViperPict]

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

If you like a place enough to want to move there, I don't see the logic in trying to change it.

Without wanting to appear of the swivel-eyed type myself, I would suggest there are a plethora of areas in the UK where immigrant communities have arrived - radically changed the social and ethnic structure of the area - and certainly had a huge impact upon the local education system.

Personally, I'm all for it. At the very least, I'm a fan of most forms of ethic food, and in Slough I can obtain any obscure ingredient, herb, spice, smoked meat product, funny looking pickles and heart-stopping cakes from shops catering for everyone from Eastern Europe to East Pakistan, all within a couple of hundred yards of street.

To claim that some parts of Scotland should be immune from the same process, because of a unique culture which might be sullied by immigration - be it from Bournemouth or Bangladesh - is to dance upon decidedly thin ice in these enlightened times.

Isn't it?

I'm all for changes that occur due to different cultures moving in - that's quite an 'organic' change that sort of evolves. But I'm NOT for the deliberate attempts to change a community in a planned way by, for instance, influencing a local council. That's different in my eyes. I'd prefer if things were left to change 'naturally', if you will.

Edited by ViperPict on Sunday 7th November 22:04

[Somewhatfoolish]

I lived in Cullen for a while, most of the scots around that area are s, I totally with OP here...

Actually I went to school at Rosebrae, maybe I know some of the poster's here's kids...

[slipstream 1985]

i dont blame the conservatives. maybe if the people of moray hadnt voted snp all the time and had the conservatives in they would have thought twice about closing bases in those areas. thats what i would have done if i were the conservatives. might as well write scotland off its a labour and snp base..... i really am ashamed of scotland sometimes.....

[ViperPict]

slipstream 1985 said:

i dont blame the conservatives. maybe if the people of moray hadnt voted snp all the time and had the conservatives in they would have thought twice about closing bases in those areas. thats what i would have done if i were the conservatives. might as well write scotland off its a labour and snp base..... i really am ashamed of scotland sometimes.....

What, so the locals should have voted for the Tories out of fear of them making them redundant?! Are you for f**king real?! This is EXACTLY the reason why folk DON'T vote Tory!! And it seems that even the Scottish Tories agree that Lossiemouth should be kept open. I hereby strip you of your Scottish nationality...there, done. Now, off down south, the only place where the Tories will EVER have a majority.

Edited by ViperPict on Sunday 7th November 23:16

[JensenA]

I live about 40 miles from Lossiemouth, I've never experienced any anti-English'ism.

[eharding]

JensenA said:

I live about 40 miles from Lossiemouth, I've never experienced any anti-English'ism.

But, as it happens, you're just one post down from some really eye-opening revelations on that exact subject.