Housing benefit cap - am I missing something?
Discussion
Housing benefit cap for a 2 bedroom abode:
£1250 per month.
How much I was paying for a 2 bed flat on a cul-de-sac in north kingston, with a 50 foot garden that backed onto richmond park (desirable/expensive area in the suburbs of london, hours commute from the square mile):
£1200 per month.
How much I was paying for a lovely top floor 2 bed flat in belsize park, NW3, a highly desirable area, georgian house, 2 mins walk from the tube station[/b]
£1200 per month.
How do I pay now for a new build 2 bed duplex apartment with off street parking, garage, views over the river thames, again, in a very desirable outer suburb of london?
£1270 per month.
So... Maybe I don't understand how housing benefit works, but I really can't see what the controversy is here. In fact, it's not really a *cap* is it, if it entitles people to have the same level of accomodation as a professional couple with careers in FTSE100/Global companies at the expense of the taxpayer?
What the hell am I missing here??
£1250 per month.
How much I was paying for a 2 bed flat on a cul-de-sac in north kingston, with a 50 foot garden that backed onto richmond park (desirable/expensive area in the suburbs of london, hours commute from the square mile):
£1200 per month.
How much I was paying for a lovely top floor 2 bed flat in belsize park, NW3, a highly desirable area, georgian house, 2 mins walk from the tube station[/b]
£1200 per month.
How do I pay now for a new build 2 bed duplex apartment with off street parking, garage, views over the river thames, again, in a very desirable outer suburb of london?
£1270 per month.
So... Maybe I don't understand how housing benefit works, but I really can't see what the controversy is here. In fact, it's not really a *cap* is it, if it entitles people to have the same level of accomodation as a professional couple with careers in FTSE100/Global companies at the expense of the taxpayer?
What the hell am I missing here??
Edited by BMWBen on Thursday 28th October 12:17
Not missing anything. Housing benefit should be payable at a certain level for a short period of time - say a year maximum then you need another two years employment with NI contributions up to date before you get that level again . . . after that it's down to £150 a week max.
This is part of the problem . . . this is where big chunks of the cash go.
This is part of the problem . . . this is where big chunks of the cash go.
So, the scenario is this is it?:
Many families have been living in rented four-bedroomed properties in expensive parts of London. Due to the recession or for whatever reason, the breadwinner(s) have sadly lost their jobs and been forced to seek benefits. Whilst seeking work, they are desparate to keep their house to provide stability for their kids at this most stressful of times, and to maintain links with their community.
Sounds reasonable to me, I wouldn't mind if we paid their rent for them whilst they got themselves back on their feet.
Or is it:
A bunch of workshy layabouts have been sponging off the state for as long as anyone can remember, breeding like rabbits to ensure the council has to find them ever-larger accomodation.
- in which case, f
k 'em.
To me, the solution is easy. If you want to get the full amount of your house rent paid by the state, then when you turn up to make your claim, simply bring:
1. A letter from you last employer attesting to your redundancy, so show you have lost your job through no fault of your own
2. Your last few year's rent books, to prove you have been living at the address that you call home long enough to have established inmportant links to the area (let's say 3 years)
3. Your P45 and final year's pay slips to show that you could afford to pay the rent when you were working.
Many families have been living in rented four-bedroomed properties in expensive parts of London. Due to the recession or for whatever reason, the breadwinner(s) have sadly lost their jobs and been forced to seek benefits. Whilst seeking work, they are desparate to keep their house to provide stability for their kids at this most stressful of times, and to maintain links with their community.
Sounds reasonable to me, I wouldn't mind if we paid their rent for them whilst they got themselves back on their feet.
Or is it:
A bunch of workshy layabouts have been sponging off the state for as long as anyone can remember, breeding like rabbits to ensure the council has to find them ever-larger accomodation.
- in which case, f
k 'em.To me, the solution is easy. If you want to get the full amount of your house rent paid by the state, then when you turn up to make your claim, simply bring:
1. A letter from you last employer attesting to your redundancy, so show you have lost your job through no fault of your own
2. Your last few year's rent books, to prove you have been living at the address that you call home long enough to have established inmportant links to the area (let's say 3 years)
3. Your P45 and final year's pay slips to show that you could afford to pay the rent when you were working.
Gaspode said:
To me, the solution is easy. If you want to get the full amount of your house rent paid by the state, then when you turn up to make your claim, simply bring:
1. A letter from you last employer attesting to your redundancy, so show you have lost your job through no fault of your own
2. Your last few year's rent books, to prove you have been living at the address that you call home long enough to have established inmportant links to the area (let's say 3 years)
3. Your P45 and final year's pay slips to show that you could afford to pay the rent when you were working.
You could also add that they occupants should have been registered for and paying council tax prior to their change in circumstances1. A letter from you last employer attesting to your redundancy, so show you have lost your job through no fault of your own
2. Your last few year's rent books, to prove you have been living at the address that you call home long enough to have established inmportant links to the area (let's say 3 years)
3. Your P45 and final year's pay slips to show that you could afford to pay the rent when you were working.
AndrewW-G said:
Gaspode said:
To me, the solution is easy. If you want to get the full amount of your house rent paid by the state, then when you turn up to make your claim, simply bring:
1. A letter from you last employer attesting to your redundancy, so show you have lost your job through no fault of your own
2. Your last few year's rent books, to prove you have been living at the address that you call home long enough to have established inmportant links to the area (let's say 3 years)
3. Your P45 and final year's pay slips to show that you could afford to pay the rent when you were working.
You could also add that they occupants should have been registered for and paying council tax prior to their change in circumstances1. A letter from you last employer attesting to your redundancy, so show you have lost your job through no fault of your own
2. Your last few year's rent books, to prove you have been living at the address that you call home long enough to have established inmportant links to the area (let's say 3 years)
3. Your P45 and final year's pay slips to show that you could afford to pay the rent when you were working.
I work in this area..........
Problem is a scheme called LHA (local housing allowance) been in since 1997 nationwide. It works on notional rental values of properties based on postcode.
So a 2 bedroom property in a postcode in kensington will be worth say £2000 a week the same property in say Blandord Dorset would be £250 a week any claim for HB is based on maximum HB payable being up to that level.
When the HB is calculated the size of family dictates what level of property the claimant(s) are entitled to.
Before this each claim was sent to the Rent officer who would visit and value the property on an individual basis.......so the claimant would normally have taken the tenancy first as they did not know what HB they could/would get.........
Now the amounts(under LHA) are published so landlords now what to charge people...which is why the HB bill has gone up......
Also has created a new type of "fraud" where someone rents a property from a Landord for £1000 a week and presents thereselves as a agent and rents to a HB claimant and charges them up the the LHA amount knowing they will get that amount so making a nice fat profit at little ruisk.........
Hope i've not sent you to sleep..........will get my coat
Problem is a scheme called LHA (local housing allowance) been in since 1997 nationwide. It works on notional rental values of properties based on postcode.
So a 2 bedroom property in a postcode in kensington will be worth say £2000 a week the same property in say Blandord Dorset would be £250 a week any claim for HB is based on maximum HB payable being up to that level.
When the HB is calculated the size of family dictates what level of property the claimant(s) are entitled to.
Before this each claim was sent to the Rent officer who would visit and value the property on an individual basis.......so the claimant would normally have taken the tenancy first as they did not know what HB they could/would get.........
Now the amounts(under LHA) are published so landlords now what to charge people...which is why the HB bill has gone up......
Also has created a new type of "fraud" where someone rents a property from a Landord for £1000 a week and presents thereselves as a agent and rents to a HB claimant and charges them up the the LHA amount knowing they will get that amount so making a nice fat profit at little ruisk.........
Hope i've not sent you to sleep..........will get my coat
BMWBen said:
What the hell am I missing here??
That Labour spent vast amount of taxpayers money for crude social engineering and also due to their massive incompetence.A £400 a week cap is just the reintroduction of some sort of sanity and is still too high.
The lefties are oppossed simply because if their is any conflict between reality and their crackpot theories they will always go with the latter.
How does this work then?
Let's say I'm made redundant (not an impossible scenario given the announced cuts). My wife and I have a joint mortgage and we both earn the same. Can I claim all, some or none of the monthly mortgage payment and for how long?
£1200 a month would be a nice profit
Let's say I'm made redundant (not an impossible scenario given the announced cuts). My wife and I have a joint mortgage and we both earn the same. Can I claim all, some or none of the monthly mortgage payment and for how long?
£1200 a month would be a nice profit
I thought the cap was £250 a month not week! ive never claimed a penny benefit in my life and therefore don't have a clue about such matters. Hell at £250 a week for a 2 bed flat you would struggle to pay the rent which is about £300 - £400 up here, a grand a month FFS thats rediculous!
IainT said:
How does this work then?
Let's say I'm made redundant (not an impossible scenario given the announced cuts). My wife and I have a joint mortgage and we both earn the same. Can I claim all, some or none of the monthly mortgage payment and for how long?
£1200 a month would be a nice profit
I dont think this covers mortgages, which IIRC you cant claim for until 2-3 months and even then its only a partial payment of the interest portion . . . . . . it's almost as though when the rules were re written post 1997, that the people in charge were trying to ensure that the people who wouldnt work, benefited more than the people who had been working and paying into the system!Let's say I'm made redundant (not an impossible scenario given the announced cuts). My wife and I have a joint mortgage and we both earn the same. Can I claim all, some or none of the monthly mortgage payment and for how long?
£1200 a month would be a nice profit
What I outlined above was existing system pre cuts announced recently.........
Central govt have made £10million available to councils to help people affected by the reductions in LHA payments as well...........
Another thing that will happen soon is council tax benefit (same as housing benefit but based on the ctax you pay) is to be abolisshed and councils given 10% less than current CTB expenditure aa a grant & left to award this money how they see fit...............so there are 440 councils in england........440 different schemes
receipe for chaos IMHO
Theres more.............
Central govt have made £10million available to councils to help people affected by the reductions in LHA payments as well...........
Another thing that will happen soon is council tax benefit (same as housing benefit but based on the ctax you pay) is to be abolisshed and councils given 10% less than current CTB expenditure aa a grant & left to award this money how they see fit...............so there are 440 councils in england........440 different schemes
receipe for chaos IMHO
Theres more.............
I'm not sure anyone has a right to live in london at the taxpayers expense claiming they have local ties unless they are a 3rd generation cockney gorblimeyguvnor who can recite the entire works of chas and dave at an interview.
What made me laugh was the woman they dragged out on newsnight as being materially tied to southwark and being paid 525 quid a week in housing benefit clearly had a scouse accent.
I used to live in southwark. sub-penthouse river view apartment 2 bedrooms. 1450 quid a month, the salary i needed to support this lavish exubarance? well over 100 grand, due in no small part to handing over more than half of it to support my next door neighbour to watch the jeremy kyle show all day before thinking about going to the pub and keying my merc on the way past.
heres a better social welfare plan. it works like car insurance. you pay your premium every year, every year you dont make a claim you get a discount. when you do make a claim it goes up, if you make too many claims it goes up and up until you have paid back what you have claimed.
if the government actually had to balance its books like a commercial enterprise instead of just putting up our taxes or printing money every time they ran out i am sure they could be a lot more fiscally sensible in the way they write out cheques at jo publics expense.
What made me laugh was the woman they dragged out on newsnight as being materially tied to southwark and being paid 525 quid a week in housing benefit clearly had a scouse accent.
I used to live in southwark. sub-penthouse river view apartment 2 bedrooms. 1450 quid a month, the salary i needed to support this lavish exubarance? well over 100 grand, due in no small part to handing over more than half of it to support my next door neighbour to watch the jeremy kyle show all day before thinking about going to the pub and keying my merc on the way past.
heres a better social welfare plan. it works like car insurance. you pay your premium every year, every year you dont make a claim you get a discount. when you do make a claim it goes up, if you make too many claims it goes up and up until you have paid back what you have claimed.
if the government actually had to balance its books like a commercial enterprise instead of just putting up our taxes or printing money every time they ran out i am sure they could be a lot more fiscally sensible in the way they write out cheques at jo publics expense.
nyxster said:
heres a better social welfare plan. it works like car insurance. you pay your premium every year, every year you dont make a claim you get a discount. when you do make a claim it goes up, if you make too many claims it goes up and up until you have paid back what you have claimed.
Im not certain you've really thought that throughGalsia said:
You're missing the fact that Labour are just trying their hardest to make the new government look bad.
It's not just Labour, Boris Johnson reckons it could lead to 'Kosovo-style' cleansing of Londons streets (not sure if he means that in a positive or negative way though...). What planet are these people on? Why on earth should the tax payer be expected to pay up to £400 a week (which is the proposed upper limit but obviously too low for many) to house people in London there are whole streets empty in Manchester, Middlesbrough, Rochdale etc, send the fkers there instead. It is not a human right to live in Kensington or Chelsea.And to answer another poster who asked about help with mortgage payments if made redundant, going by the stories many of my friends tell there is very little, if any, help on offer.
Hopefully by limiting the amount they'll pay, especially London it will bring a bit of sense back to the housing market as landlords won't have such generous tenants (eg the councils) to rely on. That in turn could start to see rentals in the long term become a little bit more sensible for everyone.
The next thing the Govt need to do is implement a "smash up a property and you're denied funds" Bill. They have exactly that in the US with HUD housing paid for by the Federal Govt. If you smash up a HUD property that the Federal Govt pays for, it will be the last housing you'll ever get with them picking up the tab.
The next thing the Govt need to do is implement a "smash up a property and you're denied funds" Bill. They have exactly that in the US with HUD housing paid for by the Federal Govt. If you smash up a HUD property that the Federal Govt pays for, it will be the last housing you'll ever get with them picking up the tab.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/borisjo...
Is Boris clinically insane or what?
How can withdrawing grossly excessive tax-payer funded perks to a few lucky plebs be in any way comparable to the sort of atrocities that took place in Kosovo?
Is Boris clinically insane or what?
How can withdrawing grossly excessive tax-payer funded perks to a few lucky plebs be in any way comparable to the sort of atrocities that took place in Kosovo?
I consider myself to be a fairly left wing person, in fact I have even voted Labour in the past.
I simply cannot see any fairness in allowing the idle to live in a house that costs £20,000 + a year. I pointed out in another thread that to take that much home you would need to earn £26,000. If this new £400 a week is a cap what kind of utter fkwitted lunacy did Labour let people get away with? If the Tories had made a bigger fuss about this when running for election I think Labour would have been decimated at the polls the useless wasteful champagne swigging fktards.
Bankers may well have had a hand in causing some of the financial problems the country has been suffering, but their bonuses are contractual and they played roulette with money invested in the banks but mainly won, then paid tax on these winnings.
Labour pissed up £billions on the feckless and workshy and in return got sod all but an empty treasury and a tranche of society that now bleats on about unfairness while contributing the sum total of fk all to the economy, and the most worrying thing is that as a civiilised country we are highly unlikely to just tell these people to get out onto the streets and fend themselves.
If anybody who lives in central London for free is worried about having their state handouts cut then come and live in my house, give me theirs for the same money and watch how hard is isn't to get by in a big prosperous city when you have a brain and no overheads you useless whining bunch ofs. Oh and if Ed Milliband thinks he can lead a proper opposition party by fighting for the rights of people being given so much for doing fk all then he must be a bigger moron than the last bloke could ever have been, I bet Labour wish they had gone for that fat racist lesbian now.
I simply cannot see any fairness in allowing the idle to live in a house that costs £20,000 + a year. I pointed out in another thread that to take that much home you would need to earn £26,000. If this new £400 a week is a cap what kind of utter f
kwitted lunacy did Labour let people get away with? If the Tories had made a bigger fuss about this when running for election I think Labour would have been decimated at the polls the useless wasteful champagne swigging fktards. Bankers may well have had a hand in causing some of the financial problems the country has been suffering, but their bonuses are contractual and they played roulette with money invested in the banks but mainly won, then paid tax on these winnings.
Labour pissed up £billions on the feckless and workshy and in return got sod all but an empty treasury and a tranche of society that now bleats on about unfairness while contributing the sum total of f
k all to the economy, and the most worrying thing is that as a civiilised country we are highly unlikely to just tell these people to get out onto the streets and fend themselves. If anybody who lives in central London for free is worried about having their state handouts cut then come and live in my house, give me theirs for the same money and watch how hard is isn't to get by in a big prosperous city when you have a brain and no overheads you useless whining bunch of
s. Oh and if Ed Milliband thinks he can lead a proper opposition party by fighting for the rights of people being given so much for doing fk all then he must be a bigger moron than the last bloke could ever have been, I bet Labour wish they had gone for that fat racist lesbian now. theboss said:
How can withdrawing grossly excessive tax-payer funded perks to a few lucky plebs be in any way comparable to the sort of atrocities that took place in Kosovo?
I think he was referring to 80,000 people having to leave the capital, but yes a terrible choice of words .. Boris means well but sometimes he puts his food in it. Still at least he didn't mention Scousers.Edited by fido on Thursday 28th October 17:24
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