True National Debt is £8 trillion (TPA) i.e. £300k/household
Discussion
National Debt tripled over the last decade. Those naughty bankers have been upping the National Debt for years disguised as incompetent Labour leaders.
"These worrying findings show that at the end of 2009-2010 the real national debt stood at £7.9 trillion - that's over £300,000 for every single household in Britain, and what's more, during the last decade debt has more than tripled, soaring from 230 per cent of GDP (£2.3 trillion) up to 560 per cent of GDP (£7.9 trillion)."
For links info and some more views on this
Search function showed nowt on this report as yet, but if it's up already, such is life.
"These worrying findings show that at the end of 2009-2010 the real national debt stood at £7.9 trillion - that's over £300,000 for every single household in Britain, and what's more, during the last decade debt has more than tripled, soaring from 230 per cent of GDP (£2.3 trillion) up to 560 per cent of GDP (£7.9 trillion)."
For links info and some more views on this
Search function showed nowt on this report as yet, but if it's up already, such is life.
turbobloke said:
National Debt tripled over the last decade. Those naughty bankers have been upping the National Debt for years disguised as incompetent Labour leaders.
"These worrying findings show that at the end of 2009-2010 the real national debt stood at £7.9 trillion - that's over £300,000 for every single household in Britain, and what's more, during the last decade debt has more than tripled, soaring from 230 per cent of GDP (£2.3 trillion) up to 560 per cent of GDP (£7.9 trillion)."
For links info and some more views on this
Search function showed nowt on this report as yet, but if it's up already, such is life.
And still our lunatic politicians ring fence "foreign aid" which usually means a new private jet or Swiss villa for a despot."These worrying findings show that at the end of 2009-2010 the real national debt stood at £7.9 trillion - that's over £300,000 for every single household in Britain, and what's more, during the last decade debt has more than tripled, soaring from 230 per cent of GDP (£2.3 trillion) up to 560 per cent of GDP (£7.9 trillion)."
For links info and some more views on this
Search function showed nowt on this report as yet, but if it's up already, such is life.
We have given a billion ££s to India and China of late. China is set to be the leading global economy and India is set on a space programme!!!
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/realdebt.pdf
From the above link:
Summary.
Our measure of the real national debt is gross debt (total debt) valued at market prices (the market value of the debt). It includes the following items (totals relate to 2009-10):
The official public sector debt quoted in the budget – £890 billion (£0.89 trillion)
Unfunded public sector pensions – estimated at £1,283 billion2
(£1.28 trillion)
Unfunded state pensions – estimated at £2,717 billion3
(£2.7 trillion)
RBS/Lloyds debt – £2,585 billion (£2.6 trillion)
Other – including the Local Government Pension deficit, PFI, and nuclear decommissioning – £398 billion (£0.4 trillion)
At March 2010, we calculate the total debt stood at £7,873 billion. (£7.9 trillion)
From the above link:
Summary.
Our measure of the real national debt is gross debt (total debt) valued at market prices (the market value of the debt). It includes the following items (totals relate to 2009-10):
The official public sector debt quoted in the budget – £890 billion (£0.89 trillion)
Unfunded public sector pensions – estimated at £1,283 billion2
(£1.28 trillion)
Unfunded state pensions – estimated at £2,717 billion3
(£2.7 trillion)
RBS/Lloyds debt – £2,585 billion (£2.6 trillion)
Other – including the Local Government Pension deficit, PFI, and nuclear decommissioning – £398 billion (£0.4 trillion)
At March 2010, we calculate the total debt stood at £7,873 billion. (£7.9 trillion)
Edited by Tafia on Saturday 23 October 10:44
The Tax Payers Alliance have quite a good video explaining this. Absolutley shocking stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAdzE13qMI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAdzE13qMI&fea...
V88Dicky said:
Doesn't this figure include personal debt, ie mortgages and loans etc?
Didnt Gordon Brown make the difference irrelevant by getting the tax payer to 'insure' all the bankers little misadventures?Whenever anything fails nowadays, your mortgage payments, Equitable life, private pension funds, whatever, government steps in for a 'one off' bailout.
I think in 30 years time we'll see that £300k per household was a conservative estimate.
Tafia said:
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/realdebt.pdf
From the above link:
Summary.
Our measure of the real national debt is gross debt (total debt) valued at market prices (the market value of the debt). It includes the following items (totals relate to 2009-10):
The official public sector debt quoted in the budget – £890 billion (£0.89 trillion)
Unfunded public sector pensions – estimated at £1,283 billion2
(£1.28 trillion)
Unfunded state pensions – estimated at £2,717 billion3
(£2.7 trillion)
RBS/Lloyds debt – £2,585 billion (£2.6 trillion)
Other – including the Local Government Pension deficit, PFI, and nuclear decommissioning – £398 billion (£0.4 trillion)
At March 2010, we calculate the total debt stood at £7,873 billion. (£7.9 trillion)
Ah, but most of those figures aren't debts, they're forecast liabilities. Those pensions figures are forecast amounts of money that will need to be paid years in the future after they've been earned. But over those years there'll also be a whole lump of income to go with them.From the above link:
Summary.
Our measure of the real national debt is gross debt (total debt) valued at market prices (the market value of the debt). It includes the following items (totals relate to 2009-10):
The official public sector debt quoted in the budget – £890 billion (£0.89 trillion)
Unfunded public sector pensions – estimated at £1,283 billion2
(£1.28 trillion)
Unfunded state pensions – estimated at £2,717 billion3
(£2.7 trillion)
RBS/Lloyds debt – £2,585 billion (£2.6 trillion)
Other – including the Local Government Pension deficit, PFI, and nuclear decommissioning – £398 billion (£0.4 trillion)
At March 2010, we calculate the total debt stood at £7,873 billion. (£7.9 trillion)
Edited by otherman on Saturday 23 October 12:16
Plus, you have to realise its not the level of debt alone that will scare people over the UK, this chart of total debt from a year ago shows that while we're equal most indebted with Japan, Japans debt level has been rising at a low rate, ours is shooting up at an alarming rate. Even with the cuts'', our deficit will still be adding to the debt at a higher rate than all other G20 countries.
If this TPA study is comparable, thats another 100% of GDP in a little over a year.
Our legacy to future generations
If this TPA study is comparable, thats another 100% of GDP in a little over a year.
Our legacy to future generations
otherman said:
Ah, but most of those figures aren't debts, they're forecast liabilities. Those pensions figures are forecast amounts of money that will need to be paid years in the future after they've been earned. But over those years there'll also be a whole lump of income to go with them.
No, I'm afraid not. Those are the estimates of the present value of those liabilties, so already account for income (or more accurately reflect the time value of money).i.e. those are the amounts that need to be set aside now. The actual £ costs paid out in the future will be much higher.
Sidicks
Edited by sidicks on Saturday 23 October 12:45
sidicks said:
otherman said:
Ah, but most of those figures aren't debts, they're forecast liabilities. Those pensions figures are forecast amounts of money that will need to be paid years in the future after they've been earned. But over those years there'll also be a whole lump of income to go with them.
No, I'm afraid not. Those are the estimates of the present value of those liabilties, so already account for income (or more accurately reflect the time value of money).i.e. those are the amounts that need to be set aside now. The actual £ costs paid out in the future will be much higher.
Sidicks
Edited by sidicks on Saturday 23 October 12:45
t did last year.Globulator said:
UKIP was right and had plans for proper cuts, shame no one voted for them.
Did better than you may think: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politic...
ZondaMark said:
Globulator said:
UKIP was right and had plans for proper cuts, shame no one voted for them.
Did better than you may think: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politic...
FFS lots of people still voted labour: shouldn't maths be compulsory in schools these days? I also think people on income benefits should be prevented from voting: most have done nothing for the country but the main reason is Moral Hazard: they are too easy to bribe, in the process costing us the country..
sidicks said:
otherman said:
Ah, but most of those figures aren't debts, they're forecast liabilities. Those pensions figures are forecast amounts of money that will need to be paid years in the future after they've been earned. But over those years there'll also be a whole lump of income to go with them.
No, I'm afraid not. Those are the estimates of the present value of those liabilties, so already account for income (or more accurately reflect the time value of money).i.e. those are the amounts that need to be set aside now. The actual £ costs paid out in the future will be much higher.
Sidicks
Surely debt is:
- money we already owe
- agreed future payouts that we cannot fund with current tax levels
- money that we plan to spend but have a clear and sound means to do so, i.e. by continuing at our current tax levels
cymtriks said:
But are future liabilities really debts? My future liabilities include next months gas bill, should I count up all future expected bills as "debt" ?
Surely debt is:
This is money owed already in the sense that it represents pensions accrued to date which will be paid out at some point in the future. My understanding is that it does not include future pensions in respect of future accrual.Surely debt is:
- money we already owe
- agreed future payouts that we cannot fund with current tax levels
- money that we plan to spend but have a clear and sound means to do so, i.e. by continuing at our current tax levels
Sidicks
Edited by sidicks on Saturday 23 October 14:44
otherman said:
Tafia said:
And still our lunatic politicians ring fence "foreign aid" which usually means a new private jet or Swiss villa for a despot.
Twaddle. No government aid is paid to other governments its managed by our own charities. People just use this as an excuse not to give.Which charities are managing the UK governments overseas aid?
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