Who ARE the poor in the UK?

[XMG5]

We are constantly told that the "poorest" in our society are going to suffer the most from the current wave of cuts but who are these mythical poor?

We are told they are the benefit gatherers amongst us but many of those on benefits justify themselves by saying they'd earn less by working. So it stands to reason that those working for wages below those on benefits are the poorer. So why do politicians (the opposition) and left wing minority groups proclaim the benefit claiments to be the poor of this country?

I have worked all my life and paid into the national pot for 41 years and there are some out there that have not had meaningful employment for most of that period? When this government starts getting tough on career benefit harvesters the usual suspects come out with the same old mantras yet many of the "poor" earn more than I do and they have no intention of actually fking working for it. Piss boiling doesn't even come close to describing how I feel!!

[Eric Mc]

I had a similar discussion with the misses last night. I am sure there are quite a few categories of "poor". Some, obiously, are those who subsist on "benefits. Some of those would be deserving (with no choice in the matter due to genuine reasons - usually medical or mental) and the "undeserving" (those who chose benefits through their lifestyles or who lack confidence to seek alternative ways of living).

There are also those who find themselves "poor" through life changes (divorce, separation, insecure low paid jobs etc) who are NOT living on benefits but just can't obtain better paid work - for whatever reason.

We can't all be high flyers. In fact, the economy NEEDS low paid workers in order to functtion.

[thinfourth2]

Look at it this way

When talking about poor people in the uk is like talking about the poor of Monaco who only have a few million in the bank


I don't think we have true poverty in the UK, I don't see children starving on street corners.

[Fittster]

Politicians general use the definition of poverty as having an income which is less than 60% of the national average (excluding the wealthiest members of society).

[GarryA]

Poor in the UK means you can only smoke 40 a day, go down the boozer 4 times a week and you have to cancel the movie channels off your sky package.

However, it will be those lot complaining the loudest, where as most of us think, I'll cut back on this or that, do some overtime etc... they will not accept that.

[Eric Mc]

GarryA said:

Poor in the UK means you can only smoke 40 a day, go down the boozer 4 times a week and you have to cancel the movie channels off your sky package.

#

ALL of them?

[Vipers]

thinfourth2 said:

I don't think we have true poverty in the UK, I don't see children starving on street corners.

Maybe not, but there are a lot of OAP's scraping through week by week. Some stayed at home to bring up children, and didnt pay stamps, they get around £50 a week to live on.

Try living on that one.

[Gokartmozart]

Hardly mythical if you use the 60% level of national median wage. This would account for 14m
note the numbers are people rather than households.

http://www.poverty.org.uk/01/index.shtml?2

[Eric Mc]

It is really wrong to categorise all "poor" people as scroungers, feckless and undeserving. Some undoubtedly are but how you differentiate between the "deserving" and the "undeserving" poor is not easy - and probably very subjective too.

[voyds9]

I think the poorest are probably those just above the benefits level, workers who have a second job to make ends meet, they live an own brand food, buy clothes from charity shops, travel by bus, but because the way the system is set up they end up paying every extra tax the government invent.

[BOR]

XMG5 said:

....yet many of the "poor" earn more than I do and they have no intention of actually fking working for it. Piss boiling doesn't even come close to describing how I feel!!

It's interesting that you choose to lay into "benefit claimants" rather than give some thought to why there is such an imbalance between the low wages that presumably people like you earn, and the vast amount that other members of society earn.

Rather than attack the lowest of the low, why don't you attack the system that allows some to take out far more than you, and ask yourself if that's not part of the problem?

[RichardD]

Eric Mc said:

..We can't all be high flyers. In fact, the economy NEEDS low paid workers in order to functtion.

I've always thought there is nothing wrong with people who are content with relatively low paid simple jobs.

But factor in a housing bubble and these people cease to be content due to rising living costs....



Also I'd like into the thread that I think I count as poor:-

My TV isn't HD. It isn't even flat, or widescreen!
Plus the screen on my mobile phone is less than 2"

[Vipers]

Difficult to define I think. My uncle who died 3 years ago at 82, lived comfortably in his own house.

He didn't have :-

Computers
Mobile phone
Car
Sky, just old 4 channels.
Didn't drink

In fact he never ever had those items during his life time. I wouldnt consider him poor, but take a similar person, with all the trappings, then they may struggle to get through the week.

Personally, I have never been hard up, but I dont know how folk manage to buy x cigerettes a day, they arn't cheap, and go down the pub in the evenings, must take a lot of your income me thinks.

[spikeyhead]

RichardD said:

Eric Mc said:

..We can't all be high flyers. In fact, the economy NEEDS low paid workers in order to functtion.

I've always thought there is nothing wrong with people who are content with relatively low paid simple jobs.

But factor in a housing bubble and these people cease to be content due to rising living costs....



Also I'd like into the thread that I think I count as poor:-

My TV isn't HD. It isn't even flat, or widescreen!
Plus the screen on my mobile phone is less than 2"

I run a Nokia 3410 as a mobile phone and don't own a television

[Eric Mc]

So, is the definition of "poor" earning power/income or the artefacts one choses to buy?

[superkartracer]

• poor*

Many different definitions -

Lots of people with no spare cash but they are very happy with life, they wish for nothing ( no flash material crap ) - are they poor?

Personally know lots of rich people who have no social life, are single and very unhappy ( but loads of material crap ) and cash - are they poor?

Hard to Define Poor, until you look at some of the very sad pensioner cases dotted about that Uk.

For me, it's the old generation who don't sponge off the state and are proud of their lot in life, they sit at home thinking about a life gone by
freezing cold in run down estates living on the very bare minimum, these are the the truly poor and sadly there are many of them.

NOT your dirty lazy lowlife benefits cheats sitting in swank houses playing games and doing f-all, thats not poor

[Fittster]

For those without google:

"The study uses the same definition of poverty as used by the Government in Opportunity for All (DWP, 2002).
The poverty line is 60 per cent of median income level – where the median is the level of income after direct taxes and benefits, adjusted for household size, such that half the population is above the level and half below it. This definition is a standard that changes as median income levels change; it is a measure of relative poverty.

Because housing costs vary greatly and do not necessarily change in line with incomes generally, the study assessed incomes both before and after housing costs."

http://www.jrf.org.uk/publications/progress-povert...

[chris watton]

The poor are (as defined by silly Labour Luvvies, I assume) my parent's neighbours, who haven't worked since they moved in 15 years ago, have three kids, one more on the way. They have a car each and the hubby is on incapacity benefit. He uses his prop walking stick when out of the safety of his house and garden - but as soon as he's in his 'safety zone', the stick is carried over his shoulder and the limp has gone! (We can see them from our temp bedroom, the window overlooks their enclosed garden) - qite shocking to see the amount of new stuff they seem to buy twice a week - which the hbby has no problem handling and carrying into the house.

If this is a microcosm of what is going on in the UK today, we really are screwed. What isn't fair is the fact that criminals like this are going to make genuine claiment's life a lot harder in years to come.

[Rollin]

chris watton said:

The poor are (as defined by silly Labour Luvvies, I assume) my parent's neighbours, who haven't worked since they moved in 15 years ago, have three kids, one more on the way. They have a car each and the hubby is on incapacity benefit. He uses his prop walking stick when out of the safety of his house and garden - but as soon as he's in his 'safety zone', the stick is carried over his shoulder and the limp has gone! (We can see them from our temp bedroom, the window overlooks their enclosed garden) - qite shocking to see the amount of new stuff they seem to buy twice a week - which the hbby has no problem handling and carrying into the house.

If this is a microcosm of what is going on in the UK today, we really are screwed. What isn't fair is the fact that criminals like this are going to make genuine claiment's life a lot harder in years to come.

Grass 'im up.

[Halb]

That behaviour of the man with the stick, it is not exclusive to benefits claimants, it in all aspects of our society. From the low to the top, everyone wants as much as they can get, whether they have 'earned' it or not. These people can always square it off with their conscience somehow; from claiming as much as they can to expecting golden parachutes/big bonuses for less than sterling work. I think it is the culture of greed, to always go for the max, and then some, no matter how it affects others. I think there is more to it than this, but it is our society, as someone mentioned before it is the structure of how our society works, and I don't see how it will change without some large group conscious change in the Western world.