Is it worth the hassle?
Is it worth the hassle?
Author
Discussion

slythgoe

Original Poster:

31 posts

257 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
I've read through the reads on warranty and I know I can spend another £1k getting full TVR warranty, but I'm still unsure as th whether I should take the plunge???!!!

Basically I want a Tuscan, nothing else gets my heart racing like this car! I have £up to £27.5k buring a hole in my pocket and I've been looking for ages!

I'm on my way to Edinburgh this weekend to see a Charcoal grey Tus' with red mulberry trim 2000 x reg with 14k miles - immacualte condition and really cared with Hydratrack and aircon and a lovely matching cover :-)

The dealer (Ex-TVR dealer) Alan Macdonald wants £29k for the car and this includes a 6 month warranty with Lumley Auto (www.lumleyauto.co.uk). After checking with them, it seems that TVR is normally not covered, but they do have policy exceptions which can be taken out by the dealer to cover the Tus' but this only covers some engin problems like head gasket and not things like a cracked block.....

sorry this is rambling, but I guess my question is should I bother? I've been a Ducati owner for years, so I'm used to fussy machinery, but after forking out on a very expensive car from a dealer, I think I should have some piece of mind that I'm not going to have to fork out another £5k for a rebuild in a months time.

chim450

1,452 posts

277 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
Do a search on here with regards to engine rebuilds etc.... If the car has already had a rebuild up to 2003 spec then the consensus is that it should be OK.

BTW £29,000 does seem a lot for a 2000 car, I think you could have a lot of room for bargaining.

slythgoe

Original Poster:

31 posts

257 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
I agree I think it's too much, but I love the colour scheme! I'm going to shoot for £27k with 12 months warranty.

I've trawled through this forum and I'm not sure I agree... reading through it seems that there are plenty of guys who've had 1 or even 2 rebuilds since the cars had the original problems 'ironed out' back in blackpool.... I'm beginning to lose faith and think that I should just settle for a nice tame Boxster S!

j_s_g

6,177 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
slythgoe said:
I agree I think it's too much, but I love the colour scheme! I'm going to shoot for £27k with 12 months warranty.

I've trawled through this forum and I'm not sure I agree... reading through it seems that there are plenty of guys who've had 1 or even 2 rebuilds since the cars had the original problems 'ironed out' back in blackpool.... I'm beginning to lose faith and think that I should just settle for a nice tame Boxster S!

There are plenty of Boxsters that have had problems, lots of BMWs with VANOS engines give up the ghost, etc. I have a mate with a dealer-bought (and dealer-warrantied) Alfa GTV; when the engine went pop they wouldn't pay a penny towards the £4k bill.

My advice: spend a bit less on the car and keep a few £k in the bank. Even with a warranty you're likely to get stung for some bills along the way. I set myself an absolute upper limit similar to yours. Then I spent £24k on the car, bought the separate warranty (I've mailed you back about that), and have enough left in the bank to cover the difference of the 50/50 chance of an engine rebuild.

jigs

1,840 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
Nice spec or not that's way way too much for a 2000 Tuscan - you'll see plenty advertised for low £20Ks and I'm sure that many actually go for nearer £20K cash.

Unless the warranty offered is 'cast iron' you're probably better off without it and get a grand or more off instead - if you pay £29K you'll be losing £16K or more for two years ownership!

Time to let your head over-rule your heart.

jamster

488 posts

264 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
j_s_g said:

slythgoe said:
I agree I think it's too much, but I love the colour scheme! I'm going to shoot for £27k with 12 months warranty.

I've trawled through this forum and I'm not sure I agree... reading through it seems that there are plenty of guys who've had 1 or even 2 rebuilds since the cars had the original problems 'ironed out' back in blackpool.... I'm beginning to lose faith and think that I should just settle for a nice tame Boxster S!


There are plenty of Boxsters that have had problems, lots of BMWs with VANOS engines give up the ghost, etc. I have a mate with a dealer-bought (and dealer-warrantied) Alfa GTV; when the engine went pop they wouldn't pay a penny towards the £4k bill.

My advice: spend a bit less on the car and keep a few £k in the bank. Even with a warranty you're likely to get stung for some bills along the way. I set myself an absolute upper limit similar to yours. Then I spent £24k on the car, bought the separate warranty (I've mailed you back about that), and have enough left in the bank to cover the difference of the 50/50 chance of an engine rebuild.



Sure they've had problems but nothing like as horrific as the Speed six engined cars. Less than 1% failure rate from BMW and Porsche compared with 50% for TVR.

j_s_g

6,177 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
jamster said:

Sure they've had problems but nothing like as horrific as the Speed six engined cars. Less than 1% failure rate from BMW and Porsche compared with 50% for TVR.

True, can't argue at all - and the 50% may well be higher! Just trying to make a point that cars of all marques break down, and all car dealers are in it to make money; some of them will be helpful and some won't want to know if it breaks, regardless of the badge.

Buying any car and running it on a budget is asking for pain. It's just about knowing the size of the budget required!

Mr Freefall

2,323 posts

274 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
slythgoe said:
I've read through the reads on warranty and I know I can spend another £1k getting full TVR warranty, but I'm still unsure as th whether I should take the plunge???!!!

Basically I want a Tuscan, nothing else gets my heart racing like this car! I have £up to £27.5k buring a hole in my pocket and I've been looking for ages!

I'm on my way to Edinburgh this weekend to see a Charcoal grey Tus' with red mulberry trim 2000 x reg with 14k miles - immacualte condition and really cared with Hydratrack and aircon and a lovely matching cover :-)

The dealer (Ex-TVR dealer) Alan Macdonald wants £29k for the car and this includes a 6 month warranty with Lumley Auto (www.lumleyauto.co.uk). After checking with them, it seems that TVR is normally not covered, but they do have policy exceptions which can be taken out by the dealer to cover the Tus' but this only covers some engin problems like head gasket and not things like a cracked block.....

sorry this is rambling, but I guess my question is should I bother? I've been a Ducati owner for years, so I'm used to fussy machinery, but after forking out on a very expensive car from a dealer, I think I should have some piece of mind that I'm not going to have to fork out another £5k for a rebuild in a months time.


Simon, that's alot of money for a 2000 car. If it's a std 4.0ltr £26k is a fair price... £29k if a RR but not for a normal 4.0ltr. You have to think of your resale value also, otherwise you may lose a great deal.

andyvdg

1,537 posts

299 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
Is it worth the hassle ? Well of course it is.

I would want to know (because I don't) why the dealer is an "ex" TVR dealer. If you're buying from a dealer for some comeback if things go wrong, the answer might be important.

Cheers,

Andy.

Well what did you expect ?

jigs

1,840 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
I know it's hard to do this when you're so excited about getting a Tuscan - but when buying something always think about selling it again.

Ask yourself - how much of your £29K is that nice friendly dealer likely to give you if you try to sell it back to him in two years time?

Reality unfortunately is that few dealers will want six year old Speed Six TVRs at any price - you'll be looking at a private sale to an enthusiast. And in 2006 I reckon private buyers will only want to pay £12-15K for a 2000 Tuscan IMO.

>> Edited by jigs on Wednesday 7th April 19:41

j_s_g

6,177 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
jigs said:
Reality unfortunately is that few dealers will want six year old Speed Six TVRs at any price - you'll be looking at a private sale to an enthusiast. And in 2006 I reckon private buyers will only want to pay £12-15K for a 2000 Tuscan IMO.

I agree that spending £5k over the odds from a dealer is £5k lost, but how you think that a car that's currently depreciating at no more than £3k per year is going to lose £10k in two years, I don't know.

It's all about supply and demand. As prices come down, supply rises to meet it, hence the point at which cars no longer depreciate. Given that Joe Public wants Tuscans, the point at which the price levels off will be relatively high, regardless of which model is actually more reliable - they all associate all TVRs as being alike, as each has its foibles. Whileever dealers add £5k to the second-hand price of Tuscans to cover potential engine rebuilds, the price'll remain strong, too.

Personally, I'd expect to see what is now a £24k Tuscan be worth £22k in a year, and £20k the year after that. At worst. The news that the engines are now getting sorted out will filter down to the press and in turn to the public, picking up demand.

If you spend £5k on a rebuild now, I wouldn't expect it to add more than £1k (if that) to the resale price of your car, though. It might just help to sell it quicker. So, the places you'll lose money are: buying from a dealer, selling back to a dealer, and paying for it fixing. Not in it actually depreciating heavily.

jigs

1,840 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
Pork wings anybody?

j_s_g

6,177 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
jigs said:
Pork wings anybody?

Yeah, sorry, what was I thinking!?! Having had a garage and second hand car dealership as the family business for the last 40 years - since before I was born - should have taught me something, eh?

jigs

1,840 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
Only £2K depreciation in a year?

Watch out - If you're still in the trade you'll be trampled in the rush of Speed Six owners wishing to take up that offer.

In reality only time will tell.

j_s_g

6,177 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
jigs said:
Only £2K depreciation in a year?


How many 5 year old cars can you name that lose 25% of their value per year? Has that *ever* happened before? In 100 years of car manufacturing? Thought not.


jigs said:
Watch out - If you're still in the trade you'll be trampled in the rush of Speed Six owners wishing to take up that offer.


I'm not in the trade myself now, always left the real elbow grease in that to the rest of the family - less hassle in other lines of business. Spent enough years fixing 'em up and selling 'em on as a kid.

Of course they'd rush to take up that offer from a dealer, but that's not like-for-like. The price you pay to buy from a dealer isn't comparable to the price you sell to one at, as there's the overheads & margin in there. The only like-for-like comparison you can do is on private sales and purchases. Which at the moment has a bottom end (for a sorted, low-ish mileage car) of around £23k.


jigs said:
In reality only time will tell.


Can't argue with that. But there's a lot of historical to base assumptions and estimates on without any need for wild speculation. Lets put it this way: In the last 4 years of driving sports cars, I've not lost a penny in depreciation. I don't suddenly expect to lost £12k in the next two years on a similarly priced car.

>> Edited by j_s_g on Wednesday 7th April 22:54

TUS 373

4,946 posts

297 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
Well argued points James. Just checked your profile, that Cerbie was gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing the new Tuscan there soon.

jigs

1,840 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
James - Me neither and that's why I won't buy a Tuscan despite them being so attractive - if only they had a 'bulletproof' engine like the Griffith.

Bet you don't pay £29K or anything like it for a 2000 Tuscan - which is where we came in I believe!

>> Edited by jigs on Wednesday 7th April 23:07

j_s_g

6,177 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
TUS 373 said:
Well argued points James. Just checked your profile, that Cerbie was gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing the new Tuscan there soon.

Cheers mate, it was a fine, fine car. Just scroll down the page - there's a quick pic of the Tuscan there now; I'll be hopefully taking some better shots this weekend if the weather picks up.

jigs

1,840 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
James - £24K for a 2000 Tuscan Red Rose - that kinda supports my point - £29K for a standard 2000 Tuscan is way way too much - enjoy and hope you have good luck with it!

j_s_g

6,177 posts

266 months

Wednesday 7th April 2004
quotequote all
jigs said:
Me neither and that's why I won't buy a Tuscan despite them being so attractive - if only they had a 'bulletproof' engine like the Griffith.

The reliability of a single item within a car isn't the overriding factor in its long-term residual value; it's in the supply/demand tradeoff. A Laguna has a bullet proof engine, but I can pick one up for £300.