Would F1 be better off without...
Discussion
...A certain German Ferrari driver with a nasty habit of winning world championships?
Seriously though, I know you could say he's in a league of his own, but the scenario seems to be: Schumacher qualifies first, Schumacher leads the race, cameras stay on Schumacher most of the time, only overtaking Schumacher seems to do involves a blue flag, Schumacher wins, not even the Ferrari pit crew look impressed although they are pleased.
And yet look at the rest of the grid: today there were some great battles between Webber and Coulthard, Trulli, Button and Montoya etc, and yet, although noticed by the commentators, no real recognition is given to the 'action' while Schuey cruises round arrogantly unabated, inviting a 'so bloody what' response from all involved. Would it make for closer racing if 'The Chin' just stood down for his love of the sport?
Also, I'd like to see him try something completely different, like rallying
IMO he's still harming the sport, even if he does have an army of fans (who, uncannily, remind me of the sort of Man United fans you find in Surrey). What do you lot think?
Seriously though, I know you could say he's in a league of his own, but the scenario seems to be: Schumacher qualifies first, Schumacher leads the race, cameras stay on Schumacher most of the time, only overtaking Schumacher seems to do involves a blue flag, Schumacher wins, not even the Ferrari pit crew look impressed although they are pleased.
And yet look at the rest of the grid: today there were some great battles between Webber and Coulthard, Trulli, Button and Montoya etc, and yet, although noticed by the commentators, no real recognition is given to the 'action' while Schuey cruises round arrogantly unabated, inviting a 'so bloody what' response from all involved. Would it make for closer racing if 'The Chin' just stood down for his love of the sport?
Also, I'd like to see him try something completely different, like rallying
IMO he's still harming the sport, even if he does have an army of fans (who, uncannily, remind me of the sort of Man United fans you find in Surrey). What do you lot think?
The problem is that (as I understand it) it is the local TV station that produces the race pictures that we see. Therefore, each country has it's own favourite, etc, etc .....
This might explain why we missed Ralph Schuey running over half of his team.
As for Schuey himself - what can we do? He is a great driver in a great car, with not that much competition from any of the others.
Move back 10+ years with Senna - it's no different - top driver in top car. However, there is 1 key difference in that he did have some stiff competition.
I agree that if we took Schuey out of the equation it would certainly liven things up ..... but would it? Would Montoya win [almost] every race? Back to square 1 again.
Perhaps they should introduce a weight penalty like BTCC - that might do it.
This might explain why we missed Ralph Schuey running over half of his team.
As for Schuey himself - what can we do? He is a great driver in a great car, with not that much competition from any of the others.
Move back 10+ years with Senna - it's no different - top driver in top car. However, there is 1 key difference in that he did have some stiff competition.
I agree that if we took Schuey out of the equation it would certainly liven things up ..... but would it? Would Montoya win [almost] every race? Back to square 1 again.
Perhaps they should introduce a weight penalty like BTCC - that might do it.
Actually I was thinking quite the opposite. Make F1 a full contact sport, with James Bond style spinning tyre slicers etc .I have ideas about F1 to make it both more competitive and cheaper:
-Forget the whole 'technical pinnacle of automotive industry' twaddle - if you want that look at rallying and LeMans.
-Basically everyone has to build the same car. This will make it cheaper and bring it in line with the other Formulas like F2, F3000 etc. Same engine layout, same brakes, same transmission - manual! (though all these items will be built by the teams so their reliability is at stake). Basically everyone 'builds' a Minardi. You could still 'buy' an F1 engine from Ford or someone or make your own, but at the end of the day, they'd all be exactly the same specs - including rev limit, maximum power etc.
-The ONLY area left to the teams would be chassis and aerodynamics. The cars would have to be the same weight as each other, but they way you set up the suspension etc and the way you channel the air (ground effect if you want it!) is up to the teams - whatever works best for the driver.
-One principle sponsor for the car. Only other logos would be the companies involved in the technical side so no paying for car/camera exposure. If other companies want to get involved in the sponsorship they should contact the FIA, who will put their names on billboards around the track, not on the cars. All money involved goes straight to the FIA, and is divided equally between all the teams.
-Superpole qualifying. You set the car up, you do one warm-up lap followed by one timed lap. In the words of Eminem: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to glow". No second qualifying
-'Bonus points' awarded for overtaking manoevers. OK, so that sounds like Burnout, but I reckon drivers would work harder and drive more riskily if they knew that, even if they didn't get a championship point, they would have a standing in a 'performance league' which awarded good lap times and overtaking manoevers.
At the end of the day, there would be less money involved, perhaps making for poorer drivers but at least the race would be about the drivers, rather than the cars or as is more likely, the money involved in the teams sponsorship leading to development money. I often think, watching F1, that the race would be more interesting if they were all in Minardis!
>> Edited by v8thunder on Sunday 4th April 16:35
-Forget the whole 'technical pinnacle of automotive industry' twaddle - if you want that look at rallying and LeMans.
-Basically everyone has to build the same car. This will make it cheaper and bring it in line with the other Formulas like F2, F3000 etc. Same engine layout, same brakes, same transmission - manual! (though all these items will be built by the teams so their reliability is at stake). Basically everyone 'builds' a Minardi. You could still 'buy' an F1 engine from Ford or someone or make your own, but at the end of the day, they'd all be exactly the same specs - including rev limit, maximum power etc.
-The ONLY area left to the teams would be chassis and aerodynamics. The cars would have to be the same weight as each other, but they way you set up the suspension etc and the way you channel the air (ground effect if you want it!) is up to the teams - whatever works best for the driver.
-One principle sponsor for the car. Only other logos would be the companies involved in the technical side so no paying for car/camera exposure. If other companies want to get involved in the sponsorship they should contact the FIA, who will put their names on billboards around the track, not on the cars. All money involved goes straight to the FIA, and is divided equally between all the teams.
-Superpole qualifying. You set the car up, you do one warm-up lap followed by one timed lap. In the words of Eminem: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to glow". No second qualifying
-'Bonus points' awarded for overtaking manoevers. OK, so that sounds like Burnout, but I reckon drivers would work harder and drive more riskily if they knew that, even if they didn't get a championship point, they would have a standing in a 'performance league' which awarded good lap times and overtaking manoevers.
At the end of the day, there would be less money involved, perhaps making for poorer drivers but at least the race would be about the drivers, rather than the cars or as is more likely, the money involved in the teams sponsorship leading to development money. I often think, watching F1, that the race would be more interesting if they were all in Minardis!
>> Edited by v8thunder on Sunday 4th April 16:35
Maybe so, but NASCAR is only boring because the cars don't handle and just do interminable laps round an oval track, occasionally hitting each other and catching fire.
If it was in 200mph mid-engined single-seater F1 cars round the world's racing circuits, then wherever cars were, position-wise would be purely down to driving ability. Also, think about how close NASCAR is. OK, so it's on an oval, but imagine how close the racing would be if it was applied to F1.
Also, NASCARs are mostly either Chevrolet Monte Carlos (+ derivs) and Ford Falcons. There's no individual team reliability at stake, seeing as most of the cars are the same.
As I stated earlier, the real differences between teams would be the suspension/handling and aerodynamics, which would make for some interesting-looking cars and some interesting races!
If it was in 200mph mid-engined single-seater F1 cars round the world's racing circuits, then wherever cars were, position-wise would be purely down to driving ability. Also, think about how close NASCAR is. OK, so it's on an oval, but imagine how close the racing would be if it was applied to F1.
Also, NASCARs are mostly either Chevrolet Monte Carlos (+ derivs) and Ford Falcons. There's no individual team reliability at stake, seeing as most of the cars are the same.
As I stated earlier, the real differences between teams would be the suspension/handling and aerodynamics, which would make for some interesting-looking cars and some interesting races!
Put them in 1950's race cars, then it'd be interesting, proper driver skill required. Sure they could add some safety features, but on those 155 section crossplies it would be one hell of a spectacle.
At least talent would shine through as opposed to money.
Anyone seen the films of Fangio drifting almost the entire Monaco grand prix circuit, thats awesome.
At least talent would shine through as opposed to money.
Anyone seen the films of Fangio drifting almost the entire Monaco grand prix circuit, thats awesome.
yeah we hardly saw anything of schumacher and were better for it. I think they need to move away from the emphasise being on aerodynamics, maybe there should be a limit on the amount of downforce generated etc. And allow more powerful engines, go back to steel brakes, manual gearboxes and ban refuelling.
I'm inclined to think that each team should field one driver and car only - that prevents team mates holding up competitors. That, and no pit stops. Run the race in two halves if necessary, it's not the bloody Royal Tournament gun dismantling race after all.
Calls cab and leaves hurriedly.
Calls cab and leaves hurriedly.
You can't blame Schumacher for being too good! 
It's the other teams we should be criticising - they're the ones who are wasting Schumachers talent and are making F1 boring! If they were quicker then perhaps we'd see what Schumacher is truly capable of. It's sad that even at the supposed pinnacle of motorsport, we have a driver who is not being challenged.
Even if everything was standard right across the board and everybody was given exactly the same car, I still reckon Schumacher would be the winner 9 times out of 10. The guy's a genius - he doesn't deserve to be belittled for being way ahead of everybody else...
Give them each a Pikes Peak 1000bhp+ rally monster, stick them on the old Nurburgring and lets have some fun!
It's the other teams we should be criticising - they're the ones who are wasting Schumachers talent and are making F1 boring! If they were quicker then perhaps we'd see what Schumacher is truly capable of. It's sad that even at the supposed pinnacle of motorsport, we have a driver who is not being challenged.
Even if everything was standard right across the board and everybody was given exactly the same car, I still reckon Schumacher would be the winner 9 times out of 10. The guy's a genius - he doesn't deserve to be belittled for being way ahead of everybody else...
Give them each a Pikes Peak 1000bhp+ rally monster, stick them on the old Nurburgring and lets have some fun!
Come back! Actually you have a point. I'm not sure I agree with you over only fielding one driver, but when I do endurance karting, no matter when you choose to change your team's driver, everyone has to refuel at the same time. The yellow flags go out, all the karts are brought in and refuelled, then the race begins again. It would stop the pit stops being used as an overtaking opportunity (ie Webber & Coulthard leaving the pits today).
And they could put a lengthy advert break there as well, so we don't have to suffer coming back after 'important commercial information' to find the entire grid's changed. They wouldn't do that during football, would they!?
And they could put a lengthy advert break there as well, so we don't have to suffer coming back after 'important commercial information' to find the entire grid's changed. They wouldn't do that during football, would they!?
Andy M said:
You can't blame Schumacher for being too good!
It's the other teams we should be criticising - they're the ones who are wasting Schumachers talent and are making F1 boring! If they were quicker then perhaps we'd see what Schumacher is truly capable of. It's sad that even at the supposed pinnacle of motorsport, we have a driver who is not being challenged.
Even if everything was standard right across the board and everybody was given exactly the same car, I still reckon Schumacher would be the winner 9 times out of 10. The guy's a genius - he doesn't deserve to be belittled for being way ahead of everybody else...
Give them each a Pikes Peak 1000bhp+ rally monster, stick them on the old Nurburgring and lets have some fun!
Actually, I'm not belittling Herr Schumeister at all, I'm just saying that the sport as it is at the moment would be more interesting if he resigned.
Since we got talking about regulations though, it is evident through his Ferrari's abilities that it's not just the drivers, or even the reliability, but the actual technical makeup of the car itself - something I always associated with the more technically-orientated theatre of Le Mans.
Example - the engine used in a Minardi can't rev as high as those used by the front-runners. The Renault unit revs higher than the Ferrari one yet has less ultimate power. How can these cars all be in the same league?
True, Schumacher would win because he's good, and McLarens would still go *Clank Grind Bang* and crash out, but the predictable elements that everyone finds so dull would be a lot less certain.
Oh, and I reckon it'd be great if either Button, Barichello or Montoya vaulted past Schumacher mid-season.
kinky said:
The problem is that (as I understand it) it is the local TV station that produces the race pictures that we see. Therefore, each country has it's own favourite, etc, etc .....
This might explain why we missed Ralph Schuey running over half of his team.
Nope WRONG! Bernies new organisation controls all the TV footage now.
It's boring... FACT! You can't take it away from Schuey though as he is the worlds best.
The whole thing was highlighted when Alonsa tried to pass somebody or another, I think Webber (you can tell I pay particular attention, its actualy just an excuse for a nap!) and they were 'no,no you can't do that!' That was the most exciting thing in the whole time apart from Ralf running people over which they didn't show anyway.
CRAP!
The whole thing was highlighted when Alonsa tried to pass somebody or another, I think Webber (you can tell I pay particular attention, its actualy just an excuse for a nap!) and they were 'no,no you can't do that!' That was the most exciting thing in the whole time apart from Ralf running people over which they didn't show anyway.
CRAP!
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