Carrier to India

[Elroy Blue]

In the 'we're getting rid of anything and everything' attitude, it appears that Dave has offered one of our carriers to India. (You know, that country we give £800 million in 'aid' too on a regular basis)

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/ajai-s...


I was taken aback last week to receive an invitation from BAE Systems, the world’s third-richest arms corporation, for a four-day media tour to the UK. What was remarkable in the BAE invitation was the company’s proposal to fly us to Glasgow for the launch of a new Royal Navy destroyer and a tour of other warships. Why, I wondered, was British shipbuilding being showcased to India in the absence of a plan to buy a warship from the UK?

A few phone calls later I had my answer! A cash-strapped UK defence ministry, unable to pay for the two aircraft carriers on order with BAE Systems, had offered one of them to New Delhi. In the circumstances, a few news reports in India on “high-quality British shipbuilding” could only be useful.

Given that the Indian Navy already has four aircraft carriers in the pipeline — the lame but functional INS Viraat; the infamous Gorshkov (renamed INS Vikramaditya), being constructed in Russia; a third (so far unnamed) carrier being built in Cochin Shipyard; and another to follow that — Britain’s offer of yet another carrier might be considered wildly optimistic. But desperate times demand desperate measures and the UK is conducting its greatest strategic downsizing since the 1968 retreat from the Suez. David Cameron’s new government has initiated a strategic defence and security review (SDSR), which involves defence spending cuts of 20-30 per cent to bring down military expenditure to below 2 per cent of GDP.

Amongst the several multi-billion pound programmes that seem certain to be pared is the Carrier Vessels Future (CVF) programme: the £5 billion ($8 billion) construction, mainly in British shipyards, of two 65,000-tonne aircraft carriers called the HMS Queen Elizabeth and the HMS Prince of Wales. These were ordered before the global economic downturn; the Labour government thought they were essential for the Royal Navy to retain its centuries-old capability to project power across the globe. Even amidst today’s cost-cutting, current defence secretary Liam Fox had hoped to build both carriers, operating only one with the other kept in reserve. But just days ago, BAE boss Ian King revealed that the government had asked BAE Systems to evaluate the cost of cancelling the CVF programme entirely.

With £1.2 billion ($1.8 billion) already spent on the CVF, and 4,000 skilled workers busy fabricating the Queen Elizabeth, London knows that an outright cancellation would ruin Britain’s shipbuilding industry. And so, one of the aircraft carriers hopes to wash up on India’s shores.

Betrayed by spineless Winky and now betrayed by the man who talked about 'restoring the covenant'. Ah well, at least he's keeping his promise of being a 'green' government. Nothing like getting your priorities right.

Edited by Elroy Blue on Tuesday 21st September 16:19

[rudecherub]

Let see.

India, Commonwealth nation check. Democracy check, English speaking - effectively, going to be the worlds most populous nation by 2150 check. Strategic position relative to China which isn't a democracy check. Nuclear power. check.

Why for FFS wouldn't we be buying favours from what should be a very important ally in the future?

[Jim the Sunderer]

Something Racist said:

Indian money must build Indian capabilities, not pay for British shipbuilding industry to survive.

I dare say The Blue Champion will have offered them it at an el cheapo price.

Probably the scrap value.

Edited by Jim the Sunderer on Tuesday 21st September 16:23

[anonymous-user]

What a good bargaining position, knowing we are selling a ship we can't afford ourselves.

[rudecherub]

el stovey said:

What a good bargaining position, knowing we are selling a ship we can't afford ourselves.

Well the cat is out of the bag on that one isn't it?

Better to sell it at a loss and win favour with an ally, than cancel it with the economic knock on effects of that.

Better that India should buy British than Russian.

[Murcielago_Boy]

rudecherub said:

Let see.

India, Commonwealth nation check. Democracy check, English speaking - effectively, going to be the worlds most populous nation by 2150 check. Strategic position relative to China which isn't a democracy check. Nuclear power. check.

Why for FFS wouldn't we be buying favours from what should be a very important ally in the future?

I'd rather people buy British than American.
More to the point we're going to need India more and more as Pakistan descends into the abyss and becomes an immediate threat to global security.
Sell them a carrier. We could do with their money!

[MiniMan64]

The Mail will literally explode when they get hold of this one won't it?

[Rocksteadyeddie]

I read the title and was all ready to donate several dozen from under our sink.

[EDLT]

Will they have to buy parts off us to keep the ship running? The maintenance costs over 20-30 years must be more than the initial price of the ship.

[Pickled Piper]

There are far, far worse Countries you could offload an unwanted carrier to.

pp

[Jasandjules]

MiniMan64 said:

The Mail will literally explode when they get hold of this one won't it?

That's why they haven't printed the story yet, the reporter's head just exploded when he tried to type it......

[Oily Nails]

Jasandjules said:

MiniMan64 said:

The Mail will literally explode when they get hold of this one won't it?

That's why they haven't printed the story yet, the reporter's head just exploded when he tried to type it......

Thats where the true meaning of 'red top' came from

[Northern Munkee]

But why are we giving any aid to India?

India - Space Programme, UK - well a niche Satellite industry, token (?) presence in European Space...
India - Just bought, expertise stripped, steel industry from UK, to shut down a potential rival.... err UK steel, on it's knees - check.
India - Nuclear weapons programme, and power programme. UK okay...
India - 4? Carriers, UK none? maybe one?

Does not compute. Is it bribery the aid, I can accept that if it's a front side bung, for defence contracts and industrial contracts fair enough, I can understand that, hell I can agree to that. But if it's pouring cash into sanitation of some st hole... is it not time to bring the cash home, and India take care of it's own?

In fact, aren't we close to having our hand out for Indian aid...

Edited by Northern Munkee on Tuesday 21st September 23:10

[rudecherub]

Northern Munkee said:

Is it bribery the aid, I can accept that if it's a front side bung, for defence contracts and industrial contracts fair enough, I can understand that, hell I can agree to that.

bribery is a emotive term, it's about securing a relationship with an emerging market - one where the UK has a historic advantage.

In some respects our hand is already out to India, Tata owns Jaguar Landrover, Mittal Steel is however managed from London.

Those same "st holes" have people who want to buy stuff, whose children will grow up wanting more, at little investment now can reap rewards down the line