Donington Stock cars
Discussion
Anybody watching this weekends Tuscan races could have been forgiven for thinking they were watching a stock car race, it would appear that a couple (and I do stress it was only a couple) of drivers have spent their winter months racing at speedworth!! and the rather obvious team tactics, any top F1 team would have been proud of...and all from the same "Team"... Hmmm
It is a crying shame that these few are bringing this series down to such a level, Lets hope the organisers do something about such behaviour.
It is a crying shame that these few are bringing this series down to such a level, Lets hope the organisers do something about such behaviour.
It's interesting that you comment on the 'team tactics'. There's a lot of speculation in the pits about what happens on the track which usually turns out to be just that - speculation.
There were some that thought Jay deliberately backed off on the line in Saturday's race to pi$$ off Steve Guglielmi who'd given him a few 'love rubs' through the race. Jay's explanation of his gearbox troubles was then born out in Sunday's race when they forced him to retire.
If you talked to Darren Dowling after Sunday's race you'd have heard a very different story to that that was being banded about regarding team orders. His gearbox problems slowed him and he found everyone queuing up behind him. He continued to suffer problems throughout the race. Rivalry between team mates is very strong in the Tuscan Challenge and it wouldn't benefit Darren Dowling at all to let Guglielmi break away. They drivers are in it for themselves which is what makes it such exciting racing.
The truth is usually far more boring than the speculation I'm afraid...
There were some that thought Jay deliberately backed off on the line in Saturday's race to pi$$ off Steve Guglielmi who'd given him a few 'love rubs' through the race. Jay's explanation of his gearbox troubles was then born out in Sunday's race when they forced him to retire.
If you talked to Darren Dowling after Sunday's race you'd have heard a very different story to that that was being banded about regarding team orders. His gearbox problems slowed him and he found everyone queuing up behind him. He continued to suffer problems throughout the race. Rivalry between team mates is very strong in the Tuscan Challenge and it wouldn't benefit Darren Dowling at all to let Guglielmi break away. They drivers are in it for themselves which is what makes it such exciting racing.
The truth is usually far more boring than the speculation I'm afraid...
And what of David Mason's "stock car" move on Giles Cooper? a tap is one thing but to keep the boot in is quite another,and on the subject of Mr D mason why was he allowed to continue in Sundays race when his bonnet must have been obscuring his field of view? surely he should have recieved a black and orange for that?
Didn't see the incident well enough to comment on that. David is new to the series.
At the end of the day the observers decide what's fair and what isn't.
Have you seen many Tuscan races? They're all like that!
The cars are very light and the bodywork is fragile - that's the attraction! 
Regarding the 'team orders' thing, there were drivers called to the Clerk of the Course and he decided there were no grounds for any action to be taken. Also if you look at the points table you'll see that Darren Dowling is quite close to Steve Guglielmi so there's no way he'd start playing any games that would jeopardise his championship hopes, team mate or not!
Points: www.pistonheads.com/motorsport/points.asp?s=18
At the end of the day the observers decide what's fair and what isn't.
Have you seen many Tuscan races? They're all like that!
The cars are very light and the bodywork is fragile - that's the attraction! Regarding the 'team orders' thing, there were drivers called to the Clerk of the Course and he decided there were no grounds for any action to be taken. Also if you look at the points table you'll see that Darren Dowling is quite close to Steve Guglielmi so there's no way he'd start playing any games that would jeopardise his championship hopes, team mate or not!
Points: www.pistonheads.com/motorsport/points.asp?s=18
I would like say it is about time we had another Ian Mckeller; I know David and he is a great driving talent. I have seen worse driving in the Tuscan Challenge; I am not making excuses for David but I think we should congratulate him on his top 10 place.
Another 1st for Bert, Pete and co.
Keep up the good work!
James
PS
Well done Jay on your win; its great to see someone give Steve some competition with no Troy this year.
Another 1st for Bert, Pete and co.
Keep up the good work!
James
PS
Well done Jay on your win; its great to see someone give Steve some competition with no Troy this year.
Dear Spectator,
I think Jamesc may have a point. What you must bear in mind is that Mr Taylor, Bert, from CDL started working with McKellar and started him on his now flourishing motorsport career.
Without wanting to take any praise away from the drivers, they are only one aspect of a successful team, and the team management and staff also play a part in every success.
If Mr Taylor has decided to place David Mason in one of his Tuscans he must honestly believe that DM has the talent required to do the job. Bert and the boys are not in the habit of creating work for themselves so would not sign someone who was constantly damaging cars.
I too was at Donington at the weekend, and at Redgate for the Tuscan race. It was obvious that DM was unlucky when he hit Giles. Guges went one way, Dowling went the other and DM had no where else to go but into the back of Giles car. As you can see that would mean that if Guges, Dowling, Cooper and Mason were all there together DM cannot be that bad after all!!!!!!!
>> Edited by af373057 on Tuesday 16th April 15:29
I think Jamesc may have a point. What you must bear in mind is that Mr Taylor, Bert, from CDL started working with McKellar and started him on his now flourishing motorsport career.
Without wanting to take any praise away from the drivers, they are only one aspect of a successful team, and the team management and staff also play a part in every success.
If Mr Taylor has decided to place David Mason in one of his Tuscans he must honestly believe that DM has the talent required to do the job. Bert and the boys are not in the habit of creating work for themselves so would not sign someone who was constantly damaging cars.
I too was at Donington at the weekend, and at Redgate for the Tuscan race. It was obvious that DM was unlucky when he hit Giles. Guges went one way, Dowling went the other and DM had no where else to go but into the back of Giles car. As you can see that would mean that if Guges, Dowling, Cooper and Mason were all there together DM cannot be that bad after all!!!!!!!
>> Edited by af373057 on Tuesday 16th April 15:29
I was watching fron the infield above the Old Hairpin, and having queued for a couple of years to get a coffee admittedly rushed to see the first lap, but saw what I thought was a bump from Dowling on Shepherd as they went down into the Old Hairpin for the first time, followed by Shepherd pulling off before McLeans. I hadn't had time to sort out who was where so may have picked the the wrong cars, one white one black. Did I see DM hit Cooper, then? if so, it didn't look that bad, just different braking maybe with the first few so close together.
This is the third season I've watched, not all the races, but I haven't seen punting off of the kind you get in Touring Cars etc. It's very close and competitive but good hard racing usually. Wish I had seen Shepherd's win on Saturday, he's always looked very fast. Enjoyed the Caroline/Hay/Dowling battle, too.
This is the third season I've watched, not all the races, but I haven't seen punting off of the kind you get in Touring Cars etc. It's very close and competitive but good hard racing usually. Wish I had seen Shepherd's win on Saturday, he's always looked very fast. Enjoyed the Caroline/Hay/Dowling battle, too.
""What you must bear in mind is that Mr Taylor, Bert, from CDL started working with McKellar and started him on his now flourishing motorsport career.""
Started him on his career ??? are you sure??? Bert Taylor worked for McKeller senior and was Ian's mech when he raced hot rods at 17..... Did Bert have anything to do with McKeller in Tuscans? I believe the car that McKeller drove was and still is a factory car and is now being driven by Ben "lets go round again" Samuelson.
""If Mr Taylor has decided to place David Mason in one of his Tuscans he must honestly believe that DM has the talent required to do the job. Bert and the boys are not in the habit of creating work for themselves so would not sign someone who was constantly damaging cars.""
Place DM in one of his cars????? DM pays to be in that car, who owns it i don't know, but like all the others out there he is paying for it...
Started him on his career ??? are you sure??? Bert Taylor worked for McKeller senior and was Ian's mech when he raced hot rods at 17..... Did Bert have anything to do with McKeller in Tuscans? I believe the car that McKeller drove was and still is a factory car and is now being driven by Ben "lets go round again" Samuelson.
""If Mr Taylor has decided to place David Mason in one of his Tuscans he must honestly believe that DM has the talent required to do the job. Bert and the boys are not in the habit of creating work for themselves so would not sign someone who was constantly damaging cars.""
Place DM in one of his cars????? DM pays to be in that car, who owns it i don't know, but like all the others out there he is paying for it...
""I thought was a bump from Dowling on Shepherd as they went down into the Old Hairpin for the first time, followed by Shepherd pulling off before McLeans. I hadn't had time to sort out who was where so may have picked the the wrong cars, one white one black. Did I see DM hit Cooper, then? if so, it didn't look that bad, just different braking maybe with the first few so close together.""
The incident with GC and DM took place on the opening lap of the first race on Sat, the black car you refe to was i would guess that of Jay Sheperd
The incident with GC and DM took place on the opening lap of the first race on Sat, the black car you refe to was i would guess that of Jay Sheperd
There are going to be a few problems in the first few races, as most of us have been out of a race car all through the winter, It takes a race or two for things to settle but Tuscans do bring out the worst and best in any driver and frankly thats part of the attraction. Don't get taken in by all the gossip from the pits most of the drivers know each other quite well and have to trust each others judgement as It can get pretty hairy out there, nobody repeat, nobody wants to see another driver hurt and any existing drivers or newcomers who don't enter into the spirit of Tuscan racing, be they at a starting or expirenced level won't remain in the series for long, we have our own ways of dealing with that sort of problem , which thankfully is rarely nessessary.Most of us who have been involved with Tuscan racing for a few years do so because we love it, and enjoy the competitive,yet relaxed atmosphere, yes there's a serious side , but not at any cost.
The Tuscan Challenge has always been about different types of drivers, teams and budgets. The likes of Rod, Wayne and Nigel (Tustain) are there purely for the enjoyment.
However the Tuscan challenge needs drivers like David Mason to keep the interest. David Mason is a credit to any series. Bert Taylor is no fool; he does not let anyone drive his cars!
James
>> Edited by jamesc on Wednesday 17th April 00:36
However the Tuscan challenge needs drivers like David Mason to keep the interest. David Mason is a credit to any series. Bert Taylor is no fool; he does not let anyone drive his cars!
James
>> Edited by jamesc on Wednesday 17th April 00:36
Spectator,
For your information the first time Junior raced a Tuscan it was run by Bert Taylor and in '93/94.
Ian did not drive for the factory from the start of his Tuscan career, as he was also run by Chris Smith at Streber Motorsport as a stablemate to Ian Flux.
I would just like to point out that the first race Junior had in Tuscans, with Bert, he qualified 3rd and finished the race in 3rd behind Ian Flux and John Kent.
I guess you would have known that if you had been a fan of the Tuscans as long as the rest of us!!!!!
For your information the first time Junior raced a Tuscan it was run by Bert Taylor and in '93/94.
Ian did not drive for the factory from the start of his Tuscan career, as he was also run by Chris Smith at Streber Motorsport as a stablemate to Ian Flux.
I would just like to point out that the first race Junior had in Tuscans, with Bert, he qualified 3rd and finished the race in 3rd behind Ian Flux and John Kent.
I guess you would have known that if you had been a fan of the Tuscans as long as the rest of us!!!!!
Well AF37ect I bow to your superior historical knowledge, so tell us which way around was it? Mr Taylor bringing Mr McKeller into tuscans or vice versa?
Do you agree with JamesC's comparison between David Mason & McKeller? Sadley I won't be going to the next one as Knockhill is a bit too far for me to go, Lets hope the racing is a bit cleaner north of the border...
Do you agree with JamesC's comparison between David Mason & McKeller? Sadley I won't be going to the next one as Knockhill is a bit too far for me to go, Lets hope the racing is a bit cleaner north of the border...
I started this thread a while ago concerning the race at Doningtion park....well i have just watched the first race at Donington on Sky sports and it confirms exactly what i said about Mr Mason....and he had an on board camera!!! so in light of this video evidence what say you Jamesc?
But Spectator, the camera only points forward, you don't see what is happening either side or behind.
Agreed, taken on it's own the video footage looked like a good old-fashioned punt up the rear, but what was happening around Mason, there were more than just the two cars out there.....
I prefer to reserve any judgement unless I am in possesion of all the facts, and a short glance from trackside and 5 seconds footage from a forward facing on-board camera don't make for compelling evidence.
Agreed, taken on it's own the video footage looked like a good old-fashioned punt up the rear, but what was happening around Mason, there were more than just the two cars out there.....
I prefer to reserve any judgement unless I am in possesion of all the facts, and a short glance from trackside and 5 seconds footage from a forward facing on-board camera don't make for compelling evidence.
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