Planning Problem...
Discussion
Right,
Land law is not my thing, so I wonder if anyone else can help.
Neighbours sought permission to build a house in their garden. Didn't see this as a problem but quickly checked the planning application which showed that the neighbours would lose their car parking area and would be able to park basically alongside our driveway. This is not a problem either for us so we did not object.
However, they built a driveway which goes 30ft past the end of where they had permission to build the driveway so it is now outside of my kitchen. Contacted planning office who say that a change to the plans was submitted and we were sent a copy. We did not get any letter. Checked the on-line reference which just mentions eaves changing and floor changing on the house they are building and no drawings to show the rather substantial change to their driveway.
So, how can I take this further? I don't like having cars driving up and down outside my kitchen every f***ng day, and to make matters worse they have changed it to a gravel driveway so it rattles along every day and night, which upsets the dogs...
Land law is not my thing, so I wonder if anyone else can help.
Neighbours sought permission to build a house in their garden. Didn't see this as a problem but quickly checked the planning application which showed that the neighbours would lose their car parking area and would be able to park basically alongside our driveway. This is not a problem either for us so we did not object.
However, they built a driveway which goes 30ft past the end of where they had permission to build the driveway so it is now outside of my kitchen. Contacted planning office who say that a change to the plans was submitted and we were sent a copy. We did not get any letter. Checked the on-line reference which just mentions eaves changing and floor changing on the house they are building and no drawings to show the rather substantial change to their driveway.
So, how can I take this further? I don't like having cars driving up and down outside my kitchen every f***ng day, and to make matters worse they have changed it to a gravel driveway so it rattles along every day and night, which upsets the dogs...
This is tricky. You need to go to the planning office and asjk to see the full file. If the file doesnt show the extended drive you can ask the Planning Authority to investigate whether the consent has been implemented correctly or whether they can take enforcement action.
You can also complain to the Local Authority Chief Exec and the Ombudman, but I suspect it will get you nowhere. You can also try your Councillor and Parish Council.
The Council are under no obligation to send you plans, merely to notify you of the application by way of a notice placed where it can be seen from the public highway.
You can also complain to the Local Authority Chief Exec and the Ombudman, but I suspect it will get you nowhere. You can also try your Councillor and Parish Council.
The Council are under no obligation to send you plans, merely to notify you of the application by way of a notice placed where it can be seen from the public highway.
blueg33 said:
The Council are under no obligation to send you plans, merely to notify you of the application by way of a notice placed where it can be seen from the public highway.
No, they didn't send me the original plans, but they were on-line! Those plans did not show the driveway extending 30ft down the side of my house but instead the drive which was pretty much only just big enough for two cars, but the same length as my driveway that side of the house.Then, they claim to have sent us the second planning application (which we did not receive) BUT that application doesn't say it's to do with the driveway but the eaves of the house etc so even then we wouldn't have looked at it....
That is what is frustrating.
Jasandjules said:
blueg33 said:
The Council are under no obligation to send you plans, merely to notify you of the application by way of a notice placed where it can be seen from the public highway.
No, they didn't send me the original plans, but they were on-line! Those plans did not show the driveway extending 30ft down the side of my house but instead the drive which was pretty much only just big enough for two cars, but the same length as my driveway that side of the house.Then, they claim to have sent us the second planning application (which we did not receive) BUT that application doesn't say it's to do with the driveway but the eaves of the house etc so even then we wouldn't have looked at it....
That is what is frustrating.
TBH even if the work is not done in-line with the plans the planners will probably allow a retrospective application, as anything else is too much hassle for the planning department (unless your neighbour is a housebuilder then they will go to the end of the earth to make it hard for the builder)
blueg33 said:
I would call the planning office and ask to speak to the enforcement officer. Suggest that he/she attends with the approved plans so that they can compare.
TBH even if the work is not done in-line with the plans the planners will probably allow a retrospective application, as anything else is too much hassle for the planning department (unless your neighbour is a housebuilder then they will go to the end of the earth to make it hard for the builder)
It is the Planning Enforcement Officer who is claiming that the driveway was approved in the plan reference they have provided to me which when I search does not have details of any driveway change, and this is the application which I did not recieve a copy of.TBH even if the work is not done in-line with the plans the planners will probably allow a retrospective application, as anything else is too much hassle for the planning department (unless your neighbour is a housebuilder then they will go to the end of the earth to make it hard for the builder)
However, part of the original plan was rejected because they had a driveway which came past our kitchen, so then they submitted another one and it was approved which did not have the driveway past our house (and we didn't object when we saw that there were no cars driving next to our kitchen!)...
I think I'll also ask them for the details of the planning notice etc.. because I don't want to let this one go...
Jasandjules said:
It is the Planning Enforcement Officer who is claiming that the driveway was approved in the plan reference they have provided to me...
The bottom line is that if they are building to approved plans, then there's pretty much nothing you can do about it.It's next to impossible for a local authority to 'withdraw' a Planning Approval, once it has been issued.
In my experience of 20 years of planning, if the Local Authority have slipped up they will allow a retrospective application. If you have loads of money you could apply for a Judicial Review, but that seems extreme.
The key is which are the approved plans? Version numbers need to be cross referenced with the officers report to committee (if it went to committee) or with the decision notice which should state the plan numbers.
As I said, if you PM me the application number I will have a look. If a previous application was refused because of the driveway, but that driveway is now approved, it does seem a little odd. It wouldnt be the first time an enforcement officer has looked at the wrong plans. (Enforecement officers very often are not qualified Town Planners so are not good at commenting against policy, only against decision notices)
I dont want to build your hopes up though. There is a chance that if it hasnt been built according to the plans then they applicant could be made to undo the work and make it match the plans. But most likely is a retrospective application and in my experience officers dont really care about the impact on amenity for one person.
The key is which are the approved plans? Version numbers need to be cross referenced with the officers report to committee (if it went to committee) or with the decision notice which should state the plan numbers.
As I said, if you PM me the application number I will have a look. If a previous application was refused because of the driveway, but that driveway is now approved, it does seem a little odd. It wouldnt be the first time an enforcement officer has looked at the wrong plans. (Enforecement officers very often are not qualified Town Planners so are not good at commenting against policy, only against decision notices)
I dont want to build your hopes up though. There is a chance that if it hasnt been built according to the plans then they applicant could be made to undo the work and make it match the plans. But most likely is a retrospective application and in my experience officers dont really care about the impact on amenity for one person.
Edited by blueg33 on Friday 23 July 08:27
blueg33 said:
In my experience of 20 years of planning, if the Local Authority have slipped up they will allow a retrospective application. If you have loads of money you could apply for a Judicial Review, but that seems extreme.
But just to be clear for the OP (who I amd assuming is not conversant with the finer detail of Planning law), this is a very one-sided process;A retrospective planning application will allow the applicant to seek approval for work which doesn't conform to the originally approved drawings. It it not a mechanism by which the applicant can be forced to change a design which has already been approved. You can't force someone who has gained a planning approval to submit an application for an alternative design.
The Judicial Review process allows an approval to be scrutinised, but (if this makes sense...) it is the procedure that the application went through that is reviewed, not the decision arrived at. For example, if it can be proven that the LPA did not go through the proper neighbour notification process, then the JR could quash the approval, but there would be nothing stopping the applicant resubmitting the application, and nothing stopping the LPA reaching the same decision again (only this time having made sure they made the proper neighbour notification!). ...and you tend to find that they do often reach the same descision again, partly as a two-fingered salute to the courts and partly as a face-saving excercise to 'prove' that the desision reached was the correct one, even if they did slip up on procedure the first time around.
The JR process would be a ludicrously costly and impractical response to the OP's problem, and would ultimately stand little chance of success.
Bottom line therefore remains the same: if your neighbour has been granted approval for the work being undertaken, forget it - you're stuffed.
Sam_68 said:
blueg33 said:
In my experience of 20 years of planning, if the Local Authority have slipped up they will allow a retrospective application. If you have loads of money you could apply for a Judicial Review, but that seems extreme.
But just to be clear for the OP (who I amd assuming is not conversant with the finer detail of Planning law), this is a very one-sided process;A retrospective planning application will allow the applicant to seek approval for work which doesn't conform to the originally approved drawings. It it not a mechanism by which the applicant can be forced to change a design which has already been approved. You can't force someone who has gained a planning approval to submit an application for an alternative design.
The Judicial Review process allows an approval to be scrutinised, but (if this makes sense...) it is the procedure that the application went through that is reviewed, not the decision arrived at. For example, if it can be proven that the LPA did not go through the proper neighbour notification process, then the JR could quash the approval, but there would be nothing stopping the applicant resubmitting the application, and nothing stopping the LPA reaching the same decision again (only this time having made sure they made the proper neighbour notification!). ...and you tend to find that they do often reach the same descision again, partly as a two-fingered salute to the courts and partly as a face-saving excercise to 'prove' that the desision reached was the correct one, even if they did slip up on procedure the first time around.
The JR process would be a ludicrously costly and impractical response to the OP's problem, and would ultimately stand little chance of success.
Bottom line therefore remains the same: if your neighbour has been granted approval for the work being undertaken, forget it - you're stuffed.
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