Twin engined cars.
Discussion
OK I am thick.
Now we have that out of the way how do you work out how much power a car with two engines has.
Im meaning like the homebrew ones where say a corsa has a redtop in the front and another in the back. for example http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?...
I just cant get my head around how powerful they are.
For example if each engine was 100bhp do you end up with a car that has the performance of a 200bhp car? How does each engine not do the same work at the same speed if that makes sense? Is the power somewhere in between?
Now we have that out of the way how do you work out how much power a car with two engines has.
Im meaning like the homebrew ones where say a corsa has a redtop in the front and another in the back. for example http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?...
I just cant get my head around how powerful they are.
For example if each engine was 100bhp do you end up with a car that has the performance of a 200bhp car? How does each engine not do the same work at the same speed if that makes sense? Is the power somewhere in between?
I've read about twin engine conversions.
If you get it right the results can be great but its easy to get it wrong and from what i can gather it's a huge feat of engineering.
I think i saw in Max Power about 4 or 5 years ago a Mk 1 Golf with 2 audi a3 engines in it.
If i remember right they were having problems getting the engines running at the same time and speed and producing the same power at the same time, as if one engine is more powerful than the other the less powerful engine slows it down.... something along those lines and was so complex seeing the gearbox it made my head hurt!
Seen a few minis with twin R1 engines and they go like the clappers! would love to do a project like that
If you get it right the results can be great but its easy to get it wrong and from what i can gather it's a huge feat of engineering.
I think i saw in Max Power about 4 or 5 years ago a Mk 1 Golf with 2 audi a3 engines in it.
If i remember right they were having problems getting the engines running at the same time and speed and producing the same power at the same time, as if one engine is more powerful than the other the less powerful engine slows it down.... something along those lines and was so complex seeing the gearbox it made my head hurt!
Seen a few minis with twin R1 engines and they go like the clappers! would love to do a project like that
It's quite a common occurrence in demo cars and the like, though besides the MTM Bimoto and various Z-Cars minis I can't think of anyone whose used them competitively. Dubworks built a nigh- on 700bhp twin engined Mk3 Golf with a VR6 Turbo in either end, was brutally fast in a straight line but not great around the corners. Twin 1.8T engined Lupos have been built before, as has twin VR6 non-turbo Mk1s.
Other comments about linking engines together and additional weight are true, but most twin engine setups only link the engines via the throttle cable, which means less to go wrong.
Other comments about linking engines together and additional weight are true, but most twin engine setups only link the engines via the throttle cable, which means less to go wrong.
Edited by ManOpener on Friday 2nd July 16:57
"Twin-engined" really has little meaning. If you look at a V8 is it one engine or two engines? Sure, they share a crankshaft but that's not much different from sharing the same gearbox.
Also an 8-cylinder with a flat-plane crank is essentially two 4-cylinder engines working at the same time - again sharing the crank.
Also an 8-cylinder with a flat-plane crank is essentially two 4-cylinder engines working at the same time - again sharing the crank.
Ozzie Osmond said:
"Twin-engined" really has little meaning. If you look at a V8 is it one engine or two engines? Sure, they share a crankshaft but that's not much different from sharing the same gearbox.
Also an 8-cylinder with a flat-plane crank is essentially two 4-cylinder engines working at the same time - again sharing the crank.
Except V8's are road legal, whereas twin engined cars are not IIRC.Also an 8-cylinder with a flat-plane crank is essentially two 4-cylinder engines working at the same time - again sharing the crank.
Ozzie Osmond said:
"Twin-engined" really has little meaning. If you look at a V8 is it one engine or two engines? Sure, they share a crankshaft but that's not much different from sharing the same gearbox.
Also an 8-cylinder with a flat-plane crank is essentially two 4-cylinder engines working at the same time - again sharing the crank.
I don't really see that. There are a whole load of differences between a V8 and a twiny.Also an 8-cylinder with a flat-plane crank is essentially two 4-cylinder engines working at the same time - again sharing the crank.
Anyway Way cool to have 2 engines - thats double a Bugatti Veyron!
Ah. many years before most tried the 'bung a bike engine in' approach was Franco "what a nutter" Sbarro, who gave us this twin engined... err.. car. 2 z1300 6 cylinder motors making a straight 12.
Franco - I salute you!
Although he did have his bad days too.
Franco - I salute you!
Although he did have his bad days too.
Edited by balls-out on Friday 2nd July 17:31
Good article here about VWs attempt, I remember seeing it at the VW factory, dont know where they ended up. Anyone know?
http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/history/bimot...
http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/history/bimot...
This twin engined Mini was in the car park at Curborough, a few weeks ago.
I remember seeing this beastie on Fifth Gear going for the 0-60 record - http://www.tigerracing.com/z100.php
IIRc it had some complex twin gearbox situation that was a work of genius!
ETA - 5th Gear feature on twin-engined cars here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGq7-cMw5Ws
and 0-60 feature here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phQfA5-DL1I
IIRc it had some complex twin gearbox situation that was a work of genius!
ETA - 5th Gear feature on twin-engined cars here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGq7-cMw5Ws
and 0-60 feature here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phQfA5-DL1I
Edited by Steve in Stoke on Friday 2nd July 18:37
Surely with both engines being matched for throttle position and rpm and the gearing being the same then both engines can only do the same work as one?
Would the car not be only able to go through each gear at a certain speed? I dont see where this extra power is useful if you see what I mean?
But then 4wd cars? But like for like they are slower than a 2wd car of the same power and weight due to losses.
Like if two cars exactly the same were attached together one behind the other, (say two 1000kg 100bhp cars, with each car being stripped out to 500kgs to make weight a non issue), I cant see that being massively faster in a way that doubling the horsepower would.
I think Ive thought about it too much and really gotten myself lost. I think Ive properly confused myself and need a lie down and a cry.
I think that half of us are talking about one thing and half are talking about another.
It is not the same to have two engines in the same car controlling the front or rear wheels independently as it is having two engines feeding a common diff to power only the rears.
In fact, having two engines powering a common diff is exactly how a hybrid works (or KERS for that matter) because regardless of whether they are engines or motors you have more than one device doing work simultaneously on a common dff.
Quite how you mate the two up so that the system works at various speeds would be interesting - anyone know?
It is not the same to have two engines in the same car controlling the front or rear wheels independently as it is having two engines feeding a common diff to power only the rears.
In fact, having two engines powering a common diff is exactly how a hybrid works (or KERS for that matter) because regardless of whether they are engines or motors you have more than one device doing work simultaneously on a common dff.
Quite how you mate the two up so that the system works at various speeds would be interesting - anyone know?
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