It's all gone wrong......
Discussion
Can't resist joining in this. Fair play to Schumacher - he is only doing his best. However, as I've said in the other threads, I agree with Richard PJ in that a funding cap (or reasonable level) is the only way forward.
It is not really the processional aspects of the racing that is annoying people (Montoya went past five people on the track last weekend), it is just the unassailable lead that one team has - which it bought for approx 100m euro.
If we could get twenty serious competitors out there, then problem solved IMHO. That is never going to happen when it costs over $250m to get close.
Capping the budgets at around $150m would still preclude the minnows, but it should give us 8 teams that are fighting on a level playing field. There is plenty of money in that figure to run you team however you like, but it is also atainable my the many.
Rich
It is not really the processional aspects of the racing that is annoying people (Montoya went past five people on the track last weekend), it is just the unassailable lead that one team has - which it bought for approx 100m euro.
If we could get twenty serious competitors out there, then problem solved IMHO. That is never going to happen when it costs over $250m to get close.
Capping the budgets at around $150m would still preclude the minnows, but it should give us 8 teams that are fighting on a level playing field. There is plenty of money in that figure to run you team however you like, but it is also atainable my the many.
Rich
Massive budgets required to take part - a closed shop mentality - disinterest in paying spectators - remoteness from "the man in the street" - lack of interest in the base market for the product - too close a relationship with the tobacco industry - excessive reliance on technology (when did it suddenly become sacrosanct that F1 HAD to represent the ultimate in vehicle technology?(which it actually doesn't).
How's that for starters?
How's that for starters?
Gazboy said:
Why do you think Coulthard has been in Mclaren for so long, he brings in the money, and just to show how awful the whole situation of F1 is, he is the second most successful driver on the grid, and he is a buzz word for crap.
Eh? Are you suggesting Coulthard is a pay driver?! Honestly, Ron really wouldn't take pay drivers! He's undoubtedly good with sponsors and great at PR functions, but McLaren really doesn't value that sort of thing above the ability to drive. Coulthard - though he is much maligned and I'm certainly no big fan - is a decent peddler on his day. He can deliver the goods, but he's just really inconsistent at doing it - rather like Ralf Schumacher. The difference is that Coulthard doesn't whinge and moan half as much and is pleased to be employed by McLaren.
During the years that DC has been in Ron's employ, there really haven't been many alternatives, when you think about it. Trulli/Fisichella? Nah. McLaren wouldn't have Villeneuve. Alesi has been past it for years. Heidfeld? Perhaps. All the Ferrari drivers and most of the Williams guys have been tied up in contracts, so who do you take - an unknown quantity or a reliable guy that the team knows? Exactly. For my 2p, it would have been good to see Panis given a race seat, but Coulthard was in the middle of a multi-year contract, so that was out of the question. The team has had a top-drawer hot shoe (who could frighten MS) in the other car for years (Hakkinen/Raikkonen), so DC was always the logical choice for the other car.
Where he goes next year is open to debate, but there must be teams who could take full advantage of his technical knowledge. I'd say Toyota, but you never know. He needs to change teams anyway, so this might be a good chance to revitalise himself - just so long as he doesn't fade away like Hill/Villeneuve/Frentzen/Alesi/Irvine et al.
murcielago said:
What do you think the main reason was that made F1 worse and worse? 
For me it's Michael Shumacher Winning all the time
Don't accept that at all. The fact that Michael and ferrari win 'all the time' is that he is the best driver in a very reliable car. Instead of moaning about Ferrari you should be asking questions of all the other teams as to why they can't get close consistently.
What makes F1 dull for me is the lack of any real characters and personalities in the sport ... plus the fact that overtaking seems to be a dirty word.
deeen said:
what happens when fiat go bust / get taken over then?
i find myself asking this very question quite often.I don't think its far away either,if Fiat go much further into the red it is inevitable they will fall,and things are not getting any better for them as we write with more dismal vehicles been offered for 04.Ferrari is a prize grasp for whoever ends up with it just for the name,and in a world where over supply of vehicles is far outwaying demand it would'nt be an educated guess that one of the major manufacturers would swallow it up.My guess would be VW,then maybe Ford but they too are in finacial dire straits.Currently one of the healthiest manufacturers is Toyota but why would they want Fiat,their ethics to building vehicles and manufacture are complete opposites.Who knows,only time will tell but i feel sure its coming.It will be interesting watching people scrap for Ferrari as an individual business,stuff Fiat!
The Wiz said:
What do you think the main reason was that made F1 worse and worse?
For me it's Michael Shumacher Winning all the time
Don't accept that at all. The fact that Michael and ferrari win 'all the time' is that he is the best driver in a very reliable car. Instead of moaning about Ferrari you should be asking questions of all the other teams as to why they can't get close consistently.
What makes F1 dull for me is the lack of any real characters and personalities in the sport ... plus the fact that overtaking seems to be a dirty word.
Suppose, but, the other teams sometimes just don't seem to have the budget? Or don't know how to use it 
murcielago said:
murcielago said:
What do you think the main reason was that made F1 worse and worse?
For me it's Michael Shumacher Winning all the time
Don't accept that at all. The fact that Michael and ferrari win 'all the time' is that he is the best driver in a very reliable car. Instead of moaning about Ferrari you should be asking questions of all the other teams as to why they can't get close consistently.
What makes F1 dull for me is the lack of any real characters and personalities in the sport ... plus the fact that overtaking seems to be a dirty word.
McLaren - their new car has been running since last November - the longest build-up of any team - but it failed Kimi Raikkonen in its first true test after just nine laps in Melbourne.
And Schumacher's admission that he was slowing down well before the finish was a slap in the face for Renault and Williams, who did last the distance.
Rewind to the Australian Grand Prix 12 months ago when Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello spreadeagled the field by more than a second in the new one-lap qualifying format. Schumacher was off the line like a rocket in the fastest car in the race. New rules, same old story. He failed to win only because Ferrari failed to read the rain and made the wrong tyre choices. David Coulthard was acclaimed as a worthy winner in F1's new world and the applause continued while Schumacher struggled over the next two races. But Ferrari's superiority was evident even if it was not reflected in their points total.
This time, the red front row was only half a second faster in qualifying and the conditions played perfectly for them.
The hottest race in the world in Malaysia should offer a very different slant on the prospects for the Michelin runners like Williams, Renault and Renault.
If Ferrari and Bridgestone fly to victory again, then the rest really could be doomed.
murcielago said:
murcielago said:
What do you think the main reason was that made F1 worse and worse?
For me it's Michael Shumacher Winning all the time
Don't accept that at all. The fact that Michael and ferrari win 'all the time' is that he is the best driver in a very reliable car. Instead of moaning about Ferrari you should be asking questions of all the other teams as to why they can't get close consistently.
What makes F1 dull for me is the lack of any real characters and personalities in the sport ... plus the fact that overtaking seems to be a dirty word.
McLaren - their new car has been running since last November - the longest build-up of any team - but it failed Kimi Raikkonen in its first true test after just nine laps in Melbourne.
And Schumacher's admission that he was slowing down well before the finish was a slap in the face for Renault and Williams, who did last the distance.
Rewind to the Australian Grand Prix 12 months ago when Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello spreadeagled the field by more than a second in the new one-lap qualifying format. Schumacher was off the line like a rocket in the fastest car in the race. New rules, same old story. He failed to win only because Ferrari failed to read the rain and made the wrong tyre choices. David Coulthard was acclaimed as a worthy winner in F1's new world and the applause continued while Schumacher struggled over the next two races. But Ferrari's superiority was evident even if it was not reflected in their points total.
This time, the red front row was only half a second faster in qualifying and the conditions played perfectly for them.
The hottest race in the world in Malaysia should offer a very different slant on the prospects for the Michelin runners like Williams, Renault and Renault.
If Ferrari and Bridgestone fly to victory again, then the rest really could be doomed.
Money - It's not the issue! Ferrari have always had bags of it but took them 25 years to do anything useful with it. Toyota have more than Ferrari but I don't see them troubling the trophy makers for some time yet.
Management - The teams don't learn! Ferrari's success is largely down to the fact that the key group and many more have remained in place since the day Schummacher turned up. The other's do not allow any time for things to gel.
Consistency in the rules - I used to think this was a good thing but not any more. They should substantially change the technical regs every few years. Different teams will have different approaches and thus different results.
Downforce - One simple rule to impliment: The only devices that can actively affect downforce must be the front and rear wings. The body work can be designed to aid airflow but must have no extrusions (winglets).
Management - The teams don't learn! Ferrari's success is largely down to the fact that the key group and many more have remained in place since the day Schummacher turned up. The other's do not allow any time for things to gel.
Consistency in the rules - I used to think this was a good thing but not any more. They should substantially change the technical regs every few years. Different teams will have different approaches and thus different results.
Downforce - One simple rule to impliment: The only devices that can actively affect downforce must be the front and rear wings. The body work can be designed to aid airflow but must have no extrusions (winglets).
daydreamer said:
However, as I've said in the other threads, I agree with Richard PJ in that a funding cap (or reasonable level) is the only way forward.
Rich
I agree with you except for one thing - How can it be policed? As far as I can see it will be impossible to police this therefore it is impossible to implement.
Surely the fact that everyone is hoping that the heat in Malaysia will suit everyone (practically)apart from Ferrari due to them being on the brigestones sums the sport up.
I mean imagine watching Aresnal vs Man U and the commentator saying, I dont fancy Arsenal's chances today as they're playing in trainers as opposed to Man U who are wearing they're usual boots!??!
I know bringing bike racing up gets peoples back up, but if you watch a bike Gp race do they rely on aerodynamics to effectively stop overtaking? Muck about with qualifying to make it more interesting/exciting? introduce pit stops to promote positional changes? and have traction control so they don't crash as much?
I mean imagine watching Aresnal vs Man U and the commentator saying, I dont fancy Arsenal's chances today as they're playing in trainers as opposed to Man U who are wearing they're usual boots!??!
I know bringing bike racing up gets peoples back up, but if you watch a bike Gp race do they rely on aerodynamics to effectively stop overtaking? Muck about with qualifying to make it more interesting/exciting? introduce pit stops to promote positional changes? and have traction control so they don't crash as much?
Surely the fact that everyone is hoping that the heat in Malaysia will suit everyone (practically)apart from Ferrari due to them being on the brigestones sums the sport up.
I mean imagine watching Aresnal vs Man U and the commentator saying, I dont fancy Arsenal's chances today as they're playing in trainers as opposed to Man U who are wearing they're usual boots!??!
I know bringing bike racing up gets peoples back up, but if you watch a bike Gp race do they rely on aerodynamics to effectively stop overtaking? Muck about with qualifying to make it more interesting/exciting? introduce pit stops to promote positional changes? and have traction control so they don't crash as much?
I mean imagine watching Aresnal vs Man U and the commentator saying, I dont fancy Arsenal's chances today as they're playing in trainers as opposed to Man U who are wearing they're usual boots!??!
I know bringing bike racing up gets peoples back up, but if you watch a bike Gp race do they rely on aerodynamics to effectively stop overtaking? Muck about with qualifying to make it more interesting/exciting? introduce pit stops to promote positional changes? and have traction control so they don't crash as much?
It is simply a different sport. Arsenal vs Liverpool (I'll let my loylaties show here) will always be played on a level playing field. Part of the attraction of F1 is that it goes to different places with different challenges.
FFS, they have ralleys on snow and also on gravel. Surely this is more of a factor than track temperature. No one complains about this!
Rich
FFS, they have ralleys on snow and also on gravel. Surely this is more of a factor than track temperature. No one complains about this!
Rich
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