Future direction of Lotus

[kambites]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/...

Could this imply that there will be no Elise S3?

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 23 June 12:22

[Sam_68]

We've been here before... IIRC, it ended up with Lotus selling a handful of Esprits a year and surviving only as an engineering consultancy, until the Elise 'rescued' the company.

[zebra]

Oh dear.

[saaby93]

Dont they realise they have their own niche?
Why try to muscle in on someone elses?

[Munkeyfeet]

I didn't read anywhere that they would stop the track side (Elise/Exige) but rather they want to add a high end premium option. You dont want to lose existing customers. This allows large margins! Plus a better dealer network - never a bad thing!

Naturally when you add leather, stereos, etc you add weight so you require a larger, higher BHP engine which in turn means electronic driver aids.

If I was in the hunt for a £90,000 car I would love a lotus instead of a Porsche. It would lose to a lambo but thats about it, but then they are £150k+

A comfy Lotus for everyday and an Exige s for fun. Until I win the lotto it will just have to be the Exige for all weathers!

[Redlake27]

saaby93 said:

Dont they realise they have their own niche?
Why try to muscle in on someone elses?

As an Elise/Europa owner I agree....but if they haven't been profitable since 1996, there is a need to change.

The opportunity is in the Middle East and China. As Porsche have found, heritage matters little, but bling does. Lotus do have an opportunity to position themselves a super-premium in new markets, whereas in Europe and the USA the jump from £25k fun car to £100K + supercar is stretching even the Lotus fans' brand perception.

Try having the '£55k for an Evora' conversation with a British petrolhead, and you will see the grimacing and squirming when trying to justify the premium price over a Cayman.

However, in Kuwait, Qatar or China there are no preconceptions based on cheaper, fun Lotus models and they can start afresh with the image.

Edited by Redlake27 on Wednesday 23 June 13:31

[edo111s]

from Autocar
"... dropping founder Colin Chapman's 'lightweight and simple' ethos for all new cars, instead using more complex, more expensive and more upmarket manufacturing techniques. ... The average car will cost £80,000-£110,000, ..."

bye bye Lotus !
good luck, I think that market is crowded, I think it'll end up as a disaster.

but for one that is going to suicide ... another one is going to be born :

"Abarth has hankered after a halo model since it relaunched as a standalone brand in 2008, and the sports car is expecetd to have around 240bhp, be mid-engined and weigh around 900kg."
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/...

So I may still end up owning and driving an affordable lightewight midengined sportcar!.
there is hope !

[Stu_00]

edo111s said:

from Autocar
"... dropping founder Colin Chapman's 'lightweight and simple' ethos for all new cars, instead using more complex, more expensive and more upmarket manufacturing techniques. ... The average car will cost £80,000-£110,000, ..."

bye bye Lotus !
good luck, I think that market is crowded, I think it'll end up as a disaster.

but for one that is going to suicide ... another one is going to be born :

"Abarth has hankered after a halo model since it relaunched as a standalone brand in 2008, and the sports car is expecetd to have around 240bhp, be mid-engined and weigh around 900kg."
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/...

So I may still end up owning and driving an affordable lightewight midengined sportcar!.
there is hope !

I will put my money down now - bet it will look great ! http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/...

[Munkeyfeet]

Redlake27 said:

saaby93 said:

Dont they realise they have their own niche?
Why try to muscle in on someone elses?

As an Elise/Europa owner I agree....but if they haven't been profitable since 1996, there is a need to change.

The opportunity is in the Middle East and China. As Porsche have found, heritage matters little, but bling does. Lotus do have an opportunity to position themselves a super-premium in new markets, whereas in Europe and the USA the jump from £25k fun car to £100K + supercar is stretching even the Lotus fans' brand perception.

Try having the '£55k for an Evora' conversation with a British petrolhead, and you will see the grimacing and squirming when trying to justify the premium price over a Cayman.

However, in Kuwait, Qatar or China there are no preconceptions based on cheaper, fun Lotus models and they can start afresh with the image.

Edited by Redlake27 on Wednesday 23 June 13:31

I will say again - where does it say the elise and exige are being stopped - it doesnt it says they dont want to be seen as just a company that makes track toys!!

You are bang on about China - Lambo CEO:

How important is China for you?

Just two years ago I thought the market was still immature for super sports cars, that the Chinese still preferred sedans and chauffeur-driven cars, but this year there has been a boom in super sports cars in China. In fact in China this year we have sold as many cars in the first six months of 2010 as we did in the whole of 2009.

This is an incredibly fast change of mindset. Obviously this is very positive for us in these times of crisis, and we hope that the trend there continues.

We are also prepared for changing markets and changing tastes - we have to have a presence in as many places as possible to get the volumes we need to be profitable

[kambites]

Munkeyfeet said:

I will say again - where does it say the elise and exige are being stopped - it doesnt it says they dont want to be seen as just a company that makes track toys!!

Autocar said:

The radical restructuring includes dropping founder Colin Chapman's 'lightweight and simple' ethos for all new cars, instead using more complex, more expensive and more upmarket manufacturing techniques.

Hard to see how they can "drop founder Colin Chapman's 'lightweight and simple' ethos for all new cars" and still replace the Elise?

[RobM77]

kambites said:

Munkeyfeet said:

I will say again - where does it say the elise and exige are being stopped - it doesnt it says they dont want to be seen as just a company that makes track toys!!

Autocar said:

The radical restructuring includes dropping founder Colin Chapman's 'lightweight and simple' ethos for all new cars, instead using more complex, more expensive and more upmarket manufacturing techniques.

Hard to see how they can "drop founder Colin Chapman's 'lightweight and simple' ethos for all new cars" and still replace the Elise?

Autocar also said:

However, its current range is expected to survive for now - with only the new models adopting the company's radically altered philosophy.

I took that to mean that the Elise, Exige and 2-11 will continue alongside these more expensive cars, but not be replaced when they reach the end of their life.

This may be linked in with the EU enforced dropping of the 1.8 engine (as reported in General Gassing). Maybe the EU regs are making it too costly to make niche £30k cars anymore?

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 23 June 14:32

[Munkeyfeet]

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...

this one words things slightly differently which is where I got my take on it.

I just cant see the elise and exige going - they may cost more in due course as they look to make more margins and they will no doubt stop owners going to independants ala Porsche to ensure you have to buy their parts with their margins.

Unless all the current customers leave I think they want the best of both. Makes sense.

[kambites]

RobM77 said:

I took that to mean that the Elise, Exige and 2-11 will continue alongside these more expensive cars, but not be replaced when they reach the end of their life.

Yes that was my understanding too. And I suspect the end of their life isn't far away...

[RobM77]

I used an inflation calculator the other day to work out that the Elise hasn't increased in value in real terms at all. £28k for an Elise nowadays is what £21k was in 1996. That's remarkable value for money and it's such a well developed and established model that Lotus would be barking not to keep it surely? As I said though, maybe it's all down to the EU. Still, I'd like to see Lotus perhaps buying in the Duratec instead (does that comply with the EU) and re-uniting the old Lotus-Ford partnership (that's with my realistic head on - what I'd really like is to see Honda engines in the factory Lotuses...).

I have a strong feeling that there are other factors here, such as EU regs, gearboxes to go with other engine options, packaging, etc. After all, if Toyota stop building sports cars (something they excel at in my opinion), I doubt the market's that friendly for them!

[kambites]

You say it's good value, but almost every other car has got significantly cheaper, like for like.

[RobM77]

kambites said:

You say it's good value, but almost every other car has got significantly cheaper, like for like.

You're right, scrub my comment above. I still had the original invoice for my 328i coupe, and I'm sure it wasn't that far off the present day price of a similar 325i/330i, so actually the 3 series coupe has become more affordable accounting for inflation (which is probably why the 3 series has become more common).

[peter450]

kambites said:

You say it's good value, but almost every other car has got significantly cheaper, like for like.

And most sports cars have got a lot faster too

[bordseye]

Munkeyfeet said:

I didn't read anywhere that they would stop the track side (Elise/Exige) but rather they want to add a high end premium option.

They will have no option. If you are in the market for a Ferrari class car, you dont buy it from someone who also produces el cheepo cars - wrong image.

[braddo]

RobM77 said:

I used an inflation calculator the other day to work out that the Elise hasn't increased in value in real terms at all. £28k for an Elise nowadays is what £21k was in 1996. That's remarkable value for money and it's such a well developed and established model that Lotus would be barking not to keep it surely? As I said though, maybe it's all down to the EU. Still, I'd like to see Lotus perhaps buying in the Duratec instead (does that comply with the EU) and re-uniting the old Lotus-Ford partnership (that's with my realistic head on - what I'd really like is to see Honda engines in the factory Lotuses...).

I have a strong feeling that there are other factors here, such as EU regs, gearboxes to go with other engine options, packaging, etc. After all, if Toyota stop building sports cars (something they excel at in my opinion), I doubt the market's that friendly for them!

Toyota excel at stopping building sports cars?

Maybe this 5 year plan will work if they keep the Elise family in Europe and really push the premium image in the US, Middle East and Asian markets? One thing's for sure, with the people they've hired Proton are wanting real change....

[andy_s]

Would you buy a £35,000, lightweight, basic 2 seater, convertable, high performance Ferrari?

If Ferrari did this, would it 'damage' the brand?