Almost sold my Tuscan due to poor handling! Fixed for £20!
Discussion
I sold my beloved Chimeara last year to buy my dream car (Tuscan Mk1 2004 4.0). With only 8k on the clock, it was immaculate.
I only drove it for 500miles before the wintr set in, but wasn't happy with the twitchyness of the steering. Where I live the side of the roads are terrible and as soon as the wheel dropped into a hole the steering would snatch to the left.
I had the geometry looked at, but it was spot on.
It was by coincidence that I talked to Mat from Silverstone Performance. He reccomended I fit some spacers on the front wheels. I forgot to buy some for agees, but finally got round to it last weekend.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! I can now hold the steering wheel with one hand without fear that the car will jump into the field! I was so close to selling her because I felt on edge every time I drove her. Now there is no chance!
Mat explained that the 18" spiders have the wrong offset due to some homologation issues TVR had with the bigger wheels.
Anyway, having told Mat how happy I was with the difference it made, he decided to make up some decent bespoke spacers to fit the 5 stud TVR hubs. (the Halfords ones I used were a bit pants-Generic/loose fitting).
I thought I'd pass on this experience and hopefully stop someone else who might have been thinking about selling their beautiful, but poor handling TVR.
Cheers,
Martin
p.s. I'm one of the co-organisers of ROAR 2010. Silverstone Performance have told me that they will be bringing some spacers with them to ROAR 2010 (www.TVRRoar.co.uk) for those of you who might be interested.
I only drove it for 500miles before the wintr set in, but wasn't happy with the twitchyness of the steering. Where I live the side of the roads are terrible and as soon as the wheel dropped into a hole the steering would snatch to the left.
I had the geometry looked at, but it was spot on.
It was by coincidence that I talked to Mat from Silverstone Performance. He reccomended I fit some spacers on the front wheels. I forgot to buy some for agees, but finally got round to it last weekend.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! I can now hold the steering wheel with one hand without fear that the car will jump into the field! I was so close to selling her because I felt on edge every time I drove her. Now there is no chance!
Mat explained that the 18" spiders have the wrong offset due to some homologation issues TVR had with the bigger wheels.
Anyway, having told Mat how happy I was with the difference it made, he decided to make up some decent bespoke spacers to fit the 5 stud TVR hubs. (the Halfords ones I used were a bit pants-Generic/loose fitting).
I thought I'd pass on this experience and hopefully stop someone else who might have been thinking about selling their beautiful, but poor handling TVR.
Cheers,
Martin
p.s. I'm one of the co-organisers of ROAR 2010. Silverstone Performance have told me that they will be bringing some spacers with them to ROAR 2010 (www.TVRRoar.co.uk) for those of you who might be interested.
Hi Night Rider,
I fitted 3mm spacers from Halfords. However the generic ones are a bit pants and don't fit that well (although they do do the job).
For the same price as the Halfords ones you can get some bespoke super lightweight alloy ones from Mat at Silverstone Performance. Email him on info@silverstoneperformance.co.uk and he will send you a set and change the handling of your car! (sorry for the plug, but I always try to be supportive of our small TVR specialist industry experts)
Cheers,
Martin
I fitted 3mm spacers from Halfords. However the generic ones are a bit pants and don't fit that well (although they do do the job).
For the same price as the Halfords ones you can get some bespoke super lightweight alloy ones from Mat at Silverstone Performance. Email him on info@silverstoneperformance.co.uk and he will send you a set and change the handling of your car! (sorry for the plug, but I always try to be supportive of our small TVR specialist industry experts)
Cheers,
Martin
Good call, thanks for posting - having driven an '03 Tuscan on 18" Spiders back when they were new I know exactly what you mean but somehow I always assumed it was a case of the big heavy alloys and rubber band tyres exaggerating inherent handling traits (most notably the combination of a super quick steering rack and insufficient damping control) and that cars that were really poor must have had the wheels pointing in random directions as one or two did that were described by their owners as 'lethal'...
Think I might want to stock (at least) a pair of Matt's spacers...
Think I might want to stock (at least) a pair of Matt's spacers...
Edited by 900T-R on Sunday 20th June 18:12
Daston said:
have you got standard wheels? What tyres/size?
Only asking because I have just changed to 235/40's from 235/35's and the handling is much much better not twitchy in the slightest
Agreed, the 225/25 18, 255/35 18 set-up is pretty awful and switching to the 235/40 18, 245/45 18 makes a big difference. This is the set-up Martin already has (2004 car) on Spiders. It's a difficult call to make but I reckon the steering improves by almost the same amount again with the spacers.Only asking because I have just changed to 235/40's from 235/35's and the handling is much much better not twitchy in the slightest
Night Rider said:
I can’t believe this has been a secret for so long.
It's not so much a secret, it's just that I'm about the only person that figured it out (as I'm something of a wheel nerd!). The thing is, I'm a business so figuring out a way of making some money out of it (without sending everyone down to Halfords to buy a generic product) was the challenge. I've managed to obtain a sensible quantity of bespoke spacers at a sensible price that enables me to get sell the kit at the market price (i.e. as Martin points out, they're the same price as the Demon Tweeks or Halfords product but custom made [and custom fit] for the Tuscan)Here's an excerpt from our blurb that we'll be using to promote the spacer kits:
It is widely known that when the TVR Tuscan was engineered it was designed with 16” wheels. It also used two piece AP Racing brake discs on the front axle – a fact that might seem irrelevant at first glance but you’ll see why it’s important in just a moment…
The general understanding in the market place is that Tuscans handle better on 16” Spiders than on 18” Spiders, and at SP we agree with that appraisal. However, contrary to popular belief this has little to do with the tyre size/ side wall height or the actual size or weight of the wheel. The 18” Spiders are fundamentally different to the 16” version in a very critical respect on the front wheels. When the 18” Spider wheel was first trialled it used the same offset as the 16” wheel (offset is the distance between the theoretical centreline of the wheel and the mating face of the wheel – where it mates to the hub), but the wheel protruded beyond the arches and therefore the car would not meet type approval requirements. Therefore the offset had to be increased (narrowing the track) to bring the wheel inboard in order that it would fit appropriately. This narrowing of the track causes the steering to become nervous.
Early in the life of the Tuscan the brake discs evolved, moving to a single piece disc construction.. The one piece disc centre however is much thinner than the original aluminium centre (aka “bell”) of the two piece disc, which effectively narrows the track (by effectively increasing the offset) further. The result? Even more nervous steering!
Fitting the SP wheel spacers could not be easier. They are direct fit, compatible with OE wheel studs and nuts* and are specifically produced in lightweight aluminium for the TVR Tuscan, and fit in minutes with instant results.
Shameless plug I know, but you did ask
We'll be at ROAR (www.TVRRoar.co.uk) this coming weekend and we'll have them available to buy over the counter. Mail order is also available but the forecast for this weekend is good so get yourselves along to ROAR - it's shaping up to be a great event! (another shameless plug!!)
Edited by Full SP on Monday 21st June 12:11
S6 Devil said:
RM75 said:
I like the sound of these. Do they reduce the sensitivity of the steering (particularly at high speed) or is it just the tramlining?
Would be interested in SP's answer to this to!S6 Devil said:
RM75 said:
I like the sound of these. Do they reduce the sensitivity of the steering (particularly at high speed) or is it just the tramlining?
Would be interested in SP's answer to this to!Narrowing the track of a car makes the steering nervous and sensitive. Widening the track reduces the nervousness and sensitivity. Obviously widening the track too far would be counter-productive but these spacers simply take the track back to the correct spec (which is ironic because it was TVR themselves who inadvertently changed it to the wrong spec!).
dont different spider wheels have different offsets? how do we know which ones we have? or is that a dumb question?!
I for one am quite excited about this, cause even though i have had my geometry done, new shocks etc, but im still a bit nervous at speed on anything but a very even surface road, cause the imperfections send you all over the place and trying to correct at speed is difficult with such twitchiness, this would be a really great mod.
It really does sound great
well done 
I for one am quite excited about this, cause even though i have had my geometry done, new shocks etc, but im still a bit nervous at speed on anything but a very even surface road, cause the imperfections send you all over the place and trying to correct at speed is difficult with such twitchiness, this would be a really great mod.
It really does sound great
well done Edited by Robertjp on Sunday 20th June 22:02
Full SP said:
S6 Devil said:
RM75 said:
I like the sound of these. Do they reduce the sensitivity of the steering (particularly at high speed) or is it just the tramlining?
Would be interested in SP's answer to this to!Narrowing the track of a car makes the steering nervous and sensitive. Widening the track reduces the nervousness and sensitivity. Obviously widening the track too far would be counter-productive but these spacers simply take the track back to the correct spec (which is ironic because it was TVR themselves who inadvertently changed it to the wrong spec!).
No more smart arse half informed opinions until fathre day brandy is slept off.
Robertjp said:
Oh, and do you have in stock and whats your number? I will be calling tomorrow!
Rob
Front and rear wheels are different offsets but you can't really get them the wrong way around on a Tuscan. Rob
Have got stock coming in this week in time for ROAR or postage for those that need it.
SP phone number is 01926 640726 (changing from 01327 855772)
Full SP said:
Robertjp said:
Oh, and do you have in stock and whats your number? I will be calling tomorrow!
Rob
Front and rear wheels are different offsets but you can't really get them the wrong way around on a Tuscan. Rob
Have got stock coming in this week in time for ROAR or postage for those that need it.
SP phone number is 01926 640726 (changing from 01327 855772)
The key thing is that the tyres/wheels are mounted such that there is an equal amout of tyre tread either side of the king pin in the front upright. As the wheels are steered/turned, they rotate around the upright/king pin.
There needs to be an equal ammount of tyre either side of the centre of rotation/king pin, or else there is increased rolling resistance on one side. This is why the wheel's offest is so important. Increasing the tyre width will just make an incorrect offset feel worse.
There needs to be an equal ammount of tyre either side of the centre of rotation/king pin, or else there is increased rolling resistance on one side. This is why the wheel's offest is so important. Increasing the tyre width will just make an incorrect offset feel worse.
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