You spend ££,£££ on camera gear and...

[4hero]

I have had a few people jumping up and down recently asking for shots taken of them on track at various motorsport events. They really loved the shots, "different from what others have taken", yet, why is it that as soon as you mention money you never hear from them again? I was only asking for £4 per digital copy, it's hardly a fortune. Also offered to have printed up, or even a canvas done for a good price!

They spend all that money on mods to their car, tyres, fuel, brakes, track entry, yet grudge 4 quid? What else can be done, other than give the damn shots away for free (which I do not do)? Do these folk not realise how expensive camera gear is?

[Simpo Two]

Well it's digital so there's no film to pay for, and they could have done it themselves if only they'd brought their camera, and besides there's a recession on, and the internet means that everything is free...

Did I miss anything?

[EmmaP]

Stuff'em! Let them make do with their own rubbish shots. Quality costs. End of.

[4hero]

I know there's a recession, not bought a new lens this year

Pretty annoying though, the time involved in processing the raw shot and uploading takes a bit of time. Time involved in emailing back & forth, yet everyone wants everything for free. Gets on my manboobs!

[4hero]

EmmaP said:

Stuff'em! Let them make do with their own rubbish shots. Quality costs. End of.

But do I ignore future requests and waste even more of my time with emailing them back? Might just type up a generic email that I can copy & paste to send on to any emails..

[andy-xr]

Simpo Two said:

Did I miss anything?

It's not your main job anyway so I dont see why there's a problem?

(NA to you, I know...)

And that's not even getting into the "it'd be a good experience for you/your portfolio"

Edited by andy-xr on Monday 7th June 23:24

[Simpo Two]

How are they getting your detials? If you had 'Each photo only £4!' on your business card then if they had no loot they wouldn't bother asking - hopefully.

[AndWhyNot]

You'll only ever sell if you've got prints to hand people there and then. Start off with a cheap dye-sub printer and charge £8 for a 9x6 - leaves them £2 out of a tenner for a can of coke and a mars bar. Hand them out in clear plastic envelopes with contact details on and once others see the images and the quality they'll come and find you... only trouble is doing this at a circuit you'll need to buy a trader's permit. Then you'll have to charge £15 and no fker'll buy them.

[4hero]

Through flickr, sidc, and a couple of other forums Simpo. Feel a bit cheeky posting "this shot will cost you £4 if you want to buy it" under each photo I post on the interweb.

[andye30m3]

Not everyone expects them for free, I've paid for images of me sprinting and on trackdays.

I'd more than happily pay £4 for a decent image, which are often seam to be taken my keen amateur photographers rather than the generic stuff taken by the guys who are there to make a living,

I think it would be a good idea if there was a website set up for uk trackdays and motorsport similar to the one available for the Nurburgring, where photographers can upload images which are all named to make it easier for competitors or trackday participants to search and purchase images. I expect the one major issue is that I believe the entry to many motorsport events strictly prohibits the sale of photos taken.

[EmmaP]

4hero said:

EmmaP said:

Stuff'em! Let them make do with their own rubbish shots. Quality costs. End of.

But do I ignore future requests and waste even more of my time with emailing them back? Might just type up a generic email that I can copy & paste to send on to any emails..

All I can advise is to choose your jobs carefully. Some jobs leave you with not enough money to buy a drink at the end of it.

Generic email is a good idea as a template but edited to suit individual client. On top of this have a rough idea how much work will be involved, ie setting up, travel, photography, post production and materials. Factor in a cost for emails too if you find yourself spending a lot of time dealing with them. A recent job I did required reading through a few 10 page documents from a publisher and responding to several points. Sounds daft but I can spend half an hour reading and responding to an email. Over the course of a commission this adds up.

As someone above said, event photography only works if you can produce a print there and then. This is costly initially as it requires a certain investment in kit, not to mention a bomb proof order system.

Edited by EmmaP on Tuesday 8th June 00:57

[Fordo]

andye30m3 said:

I think it would be a good idea if there was a website set up for uk trackdays and motorsport similar to the one available for the Nurburgring, where photographers can upload images which are all named to make it easier for competitors or trackday participants to search and purchase images.

+ 1

had a similar thought earlier when i read the post.

Last year bought 3 pictures of my other half's car that we'd taken on the ring- We were over the moon when, 4 weeks after the trip, we casually put in reg number on a ring photography site- and up popped 3 stunning photographs! I was happy to pay whatever the cost! Big thumbs up to whoever thought up that online system

[Ed_P]

andye30m3 said:

I think it would be a good idea if there was a website ...

I'd second that. I do a number of sports and equestrian events. I have a small "stand" with sample photographs, advising punters that images will be avilable for sale online after the event. They can pick up a business card at the stand and I also hand them out as I go round the event.

I offer digital files and prints via the website. Although I sometimes get no sales at all, it can be quite profitable. I do get "official photographer" status at the events though, and that allows me to use the stand and officially "tout" for business.

Printing at events is definitely the most profitable as Andrew (AnyWhyNot) said. It's another ballgame as far as investment is required though. A friend of mine does this and apart from the 'togs, has two staff processing the images and operating the printers and a motorcycle "outrider" collecting memory cards. They do have a constant queue of customers though, waiting for their £10.00 prints!

[Dave^]

I was thinking yesterday, that we could do with a subsection in P&V for submitting photos, rather than having them getting lost within other parts of the site, as I never know whether I should be putting threads in the Motorsport/Events/etc section or in here...

Getting paid for them is just a dream in a pipe...

I did think about putting CDs with full size jpgs on eBay, but by the time you've paid for the listing, the CD, the postage, PayPal's share, eBays share, etc... You've nowt left!!

[Simpo Two]

4hero said:

Through flickr, sidc, and a couple of other forums Simpo. Feel a bit cheeky posting "this shot will cost you £4 if you want to buy it" under each photo I post on the interweb.

Ah well that's why they want it for free. You're getting their expectations up for a freebie, then smacking them in the face with a £4 cost. I think that stating the cost up front will not only save you and them time and frustration in weeding out the spongers, but make you appear more like a professional and not a hobbyist.

Time to put photography to one side and consider the sales and marketing aspect perhaps

ETA: But consider your motivation. Is it to take nice photos (in which case it doesn't matter if you don't sell anything) or is it to make money? If the latter, the plan clearly isn't working; it will have to be changed.

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 8th June 09:47

[baz7175]

Unfortunately most people are like this, but that's what happens when everyone and their granny has a decentish cam these days...however I'm finding more and more that every so often through all the "want it for free" emails there occasionally will come one from an individual or company willing to pay for it, just this morning I got a nice lump sum deposited in my account for full future use of one of my atomium (Brussels) photo's for a forthcoming book.

[miniman]

£20 for 4 on a CD, works for me. The one thing that the pros can do is get close enough to the track to get the really good shots.

[Fordo]

miniman said:

£20 for 4 on a CD, works for me. The one thing that the pros can do is get close enough to the track to get the really good shots.

damn it, my desire for a tvr just keeps growing lately- and that picture is doing nothing to help!

[Elderly]

In the past, I have paid about £30 for a CD of everything that a photographer has shot of my car on a trackday,
but only after having a quick look at the end of the day to see if there are likely to be a (small)
number of good shots that I wanted.
However ........ there is a limit to the number of close-ups of my car on an anonymous grey piece of tarmac with a bit
of green beyond (many with the horizontal axis tilted ) that I want.

I have been offered so few well framed interesting shots offering context of some kind or another, which I would happily purchase.

[oobster]

Simpo Two said:

But consider your motivation. Is it to take nice photos (in which case it doesn't matter if you don't sell anything) or is it to make money? If the latter, the plan clearly isn't working; it will have to be changed.

This ^ is what I immediately thought when I read your opening post Neil. Are you going up to Knockhill/hillclimbs etc for the enjoyment of the entertainment on offer? Or with the sole aim of making a bit of cash? I would assume the former, in which case why charge £4 to email someone the high-res version of an image?

Would it not be better to operate some sort of bartering system, like a passenger lap in the car next time you & the buyer meet up, or an offer of a wee roll on sausage and a coffee from the food hut?

Or maybe even a conversation along the lines of letting them having a high-res one for free, but how about I concentrate on taking more images of your car next time and i'll put them all on CD for you for £20?