VHPD-

[Pentoman]

I was lucky enough to drive a friend's S2 Elise sport 190 to the Nurburgring and on the Nurburgring last weekend. It has 26k miles and what I believe is called the VHPD rover engine. Is it true that there are some reliability concerns with this motor? Anything over and above the regular head gasket worries? He/we kept it under 7k rpm, only occasionally going over that to experience the additional acceleration that kicks in at about 7,200. Presumably this is a sensible idea? At those revs it feels extremely fast but there's also a lot of noise understandably. I can't discern if there's also extra vibration at those revs but if so is that normal? It's a very characterful engine I must say - he is thinking about replacement Honda engines but I think they would lack the character.

[danwebster]

You're about to open a massive can of worms.

K series fragility issues have been well documented, as have their respective fixes. If you want a light weight characterful engine and are prepared to live with shorter service intervals than the japanese equivalent then I say the K series is a fantastic engine.

I'll be sticking with my VHPD anway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmHyOFUgztM

[Pentoman]

OK, I wasn't trying to open the K-series can; I want to keep it strictly on the topic of the VHPD motor specifically. Personally I love seeing that little Rover engine in there - 'the kid done good!'.

[danwebster]

I'll be impressed and astonished in equal measure if it stays on topic

[peter450]

Basically, Standard K quite reliable
VVC K quite reliable
VHPD K less reliable due to

A: being a more stressed and high performance engine
B: they were not assembled by Lotus, for the S1 cars but by some other outfit, rumour has it a not very good job was done, they had terrible mapping and proved unreliable which is were all the VHPD handgrenaded stories came from

In defense of the engine, the S2 cars (which were much smaller in number) had the engines built in house at Lotus, there were form what i have read on forums, much better, producing a proper 190hp, and with much better engine mapping and being a generally nice smoother unit, form what i have heard

Now a days a lot more knowledge has been gained about how to make a high performance K, 200hp is still probably a sensible limit, but a VHPD can be rebuilt these days into a fairly solid unit, which will last much better than those put in the early cars

However the damage reputation wise has been done, by those early cars and thus most people view VHPD's with caution, if yout friend like's his VHPD, then keep it, when it breaks have it rebuilt by a good knowledgable high performance K series specialist, to the same spec but using uprated parts in the area's of weakness, and have the engine balanced and the ECU properly mapped aswell, as again from what i have heard this benefits VHPD longevity and makes them a much smoother drive too

If you want a Honda, then it's solid unit, reliable and able to take high HP, but you loose originality and selling on may be? more difficult in future

[RonnieP]

VHPDs are ok if looked after properly, yes they can now be made more reliable, technology moves on. Folk who slag 'em off usually, a) have no experience of them, b) listen too much to chattering, uninformed sources and pass on heresay rubbish or, c) have a different engine installation to sell and have an angle on it

[Esprit]

VHPD

I love mine, but it's true they're not the most dependable engine out there... harmed by variable build quality.

Still, I'm hoping that with some care and some money mine will be fighting fit for years worth of track duty

[ads_green]

Would that be Sam's Red n white beastie?

Used to be mine and still miss it. The only car I've ever sold that I'd gladly buy back.
Have told him to make sure I'm given first refusal if he ever gets itchy feet but the good for nothing so and so won't budge

As for the topic, there were some horror stories. From what I understand it from my ownership is that the original S1 VHPD's (S1 Sport 190, Exige 190 and 340R) used engines built and tuned by a 3rd party and these were not great and did have some issues when in full 190 trim.

The S2 190 was built in house and is considerably better in terms of running manners and reliability.
The only failure I know of was a problem with a pourous cylinder head or liners which I think isn't 100% down to the VHPD and has occured on other models (like the S2 Sport 135R).

They do need proper care and regular routine maintenance/servicing but I never had any problems with mine (19k miles) and it's still going strong.

[Scuffers]

Looks like I am not allowed to comment apparently!

Reality of this is they cannot be called reliable in the proper since of the word, many people have been hit very hard keeping then running, lot of them have been swapped out.

as a road only car engine that's not reved hard, they should survive, if looked after.

[ads_green]

I'd agree with simon - you're not likely to get a VHPD to 100k miles without cracking it open at least once but possibly more.
If you track it regulary then you will need to strip it down every so often.

That being said, the vhpd does have alot of character and charm more so than any modern engine I've driven. There's seriously something about a slightly lumpy idle, low down spluttering leading to manic revs once in it's stride. Sure, the Honda, Audi, Duratec and Toyota engines are technically better and will be more reliable at the same tune as they have alot more development on them but I'd still have my VHPD back.

[swannynhb]

peter450 said:

Basically, Standard K quite reliable
VVC K quite reliable
VHPD K less reliable due to

A: being a more stressed and high performance engine
B: they were not assembled by Lotus, for the S1 cars but by some other outfit, rumour has it a not very good job was done, they had terrible mapping and proved unreliable which is were all the VHPD handgrenaded stories came from

In defense of the engine, the S2 cars (which were much smaller in number) had the engines built in house at Lotus, there were form what i have read on forums, much better, producing a proper 190hp, and with much better engine mapping and being a generally nice smoother unit, form what i have heard

Now a days a lot more knowledge has been gained about how to make a high performance K, 200hp is still probably a sensible limit, but a VHPD can be rebuilt these days into a fairly solid unit, which will last much better than those put in the early cars

However the damage reputation wise has been done, by those early cars and thus most people view VHPD's with caution, if yout friend like's his VHPD, then keep it, when it breaks have it rebuilt by a good knowledgable high performance K series specialist, to the same spec but using uprated parts in the area's of weakness, and have the engine balanced and the ECU properly mapped aswell, as again from what i have heard this benefits VHPD longevity and makes them a much smoother drive too

If you want a Honda, then it's solid unit, reliable and able to take high HP, but you loose originality and selling on may be? more difficult in future

i have to disagree with you when you say a honda converted car may difficult to sell, if anything they are even easier to sell if converted professionally with an engine and box thats history can be verified.

[swannynhb]

danwebster said:

I'll be impressed and astonished in equal measure if it stays on topic

lol, sorry my bad!

[ads_green]

swannynhb said:

i have to disagree with you when you say a honda converted car may difficult to sell, if anything they are even easier to sell if converted professionally with an engine and box thats history can be verified.

Not difficult to sell however it is a reduced market and like all conversions they don't hold the value of the conversion (but generally are slightly higher market value than a non converted car).
To be fair, exactly the same as a VHPD car.

[Esprit]

ads_green said:

swannynhb said:

i have to disagree with you when you say a honda converted car may difficult to sell, if anything they are even easier to sell if converted professionally with an engine and box thats history can be verified.

Not difficult to sell however it is a reduced market and like all conversions they don't hold the value of the conversion (but generally are slightly higher market value than a non converted car).
To be fair, exactly the same as a VHPD car.

To be fair, a Honda-converted S1 Exige makes about the same price as a standard one these days (assuming you're talking about an N/A Honda). The Supercharged ones tend to make a bit more, probably because of the night-and-day difference in speed. But generally speaking if you are looking at spending the cash on upgrading an S1 Exige to Honda power, you won't get a cent of it back come resale time. At least if you do the conversion to an Elise, you'll typically get some of your cash back when it comes time to sell.

[Scuffers]

Esprit said:

ads_green said:

swannynhb said:

i have to disagree with you when you say a honda converted car may difficult to sell, if anything they are even easier to sell if converted professionally with an engine and box thats history can be verified.

Not difficult to sell however it is a reduced market and like all conversions they don't hold the value of the conversion (but generally are slightly higher market value than a non converted car).
To be fair, exactly the same as a VHPD car.

To be fair, a Honda-converted S1 Exige makes about the same price as a standard one these days (assuming you're talking about an N/A Honda). The Supercharged ones tend to make a bit more, probably because of the night-and-day difference in speed. But generally speaking if you are looking at spending the cash on upgrading an S1 Exige to Honda power, you won't get a cent of it back come resale time. At least if you do the conversion to an Elise, you'll typically get some of your cash back when it comes time to sell.

not sure about that....

unless it;s some lashed up shed, all the Exiges that have sold with Honda's in them have fetched more than original car prices, not trying to suggest that you can recover the full install cost, but to say that it adds nothing to the value is somewhat stretching it.

[ads_green]

S1 Exiges are a market force unto themselves
Probably the single best car in terms of depreciation you can buy.

[Scuffers]

ads_green said:

S1 Exiges are a market force unto themselves
Probably the single best car in terms of depreciation you can buy.

very much so, issue here is that there are not that many, so not exactly a lot up for sale at any one time, combined with a lot that have 'interesting' histories, so what you end up with is a classic case of supply and demand.

you only have to take a gander in classifieds at the moment....

[swannynhb]

Esprit said:

ads_green said:

swannynhb said:

i have to disagree with you when you say a honda converted car may difficult to sell, if anything they are even easier to sell if converted professionally with an engine and box thats history can be verified.

Not difficult to sell however it is a reduced market and like all conversions they don't hold the value of the conversion (but generally are slightly higher market value than a non converted car).
To be fair, exactly the same as a VHPD car.

To be fair, a Honda-converted S1 Exige makes about the same price as a standard one these days (assuming you're talking about an N/A Honda). The Supercharged ones tend to make a bit more, probably because of the night-and-day difference in speed. But generally speaking if you are looking at spending the cash on upgrading an S1 Exige to Honda power, you won't get a cent of it back come resale time. At least if you do the conversion to an Elise, you'll typically get some of your cash back when it comes time to sell.

im not suggesting you'll recoup the cash youve outlayed to convert your car to a honda, like any modifications you'll never get your cash back. yes of course the market for a honda powered car is smaller than a standard car, however the people looking at a honda converted car are well aware of their value.

[Esprit]

Scuffers said:

Esprit said:

ads_green said:

swannynhb said:

i have to disagree with you when you say a honda converted car may difficult to sell, if anything they are even easier to sell if converted professionally with an engine and box thats history can be verified.

Not difficult to sell however it is a reduced market and like all conversions they don't hold the value of the conversion (but generally are slightly higher market value than a non converted car).
To be fair, exactly the same as a VHPD car.

To be fair, a Honda-converted S1 Exige makes about the same price as a standard one these days (assuming you're talking about an N/A Honda). The Supercharged ones tend to make a bit more, probably because of the night-and-day difference in speed. But generally speaking if you are looking at spending the cash on upgrading an S1 Exige to Honda power, you won't get a cent of it back come resale time. At least if you do the conversion to an Elise, you'll typically get some of your cash back when it comes time to sell.

not sure about that....

unless it;s some lashed up shed, all the Exiges that have sold with Honda's in them have fetched more than original car prices, not trying to suggest that you can recover the full install cost, but to say that it adds nothing to the value is somewhat stretching it.

Just going off ones that have sold on Exiges.com lately, the K-series cars are making about 22-24k, and the N/A Honda cars that have sold on there have made exactly the same. Cars seemed to be similar spec too, so it would suggest that in the case of the S1 Exige, a Honda-powered car is lineball with an original-spec car.

[Scuffers]

Esprit said:

Just going off ones that have sold on Exiges.com lately, the K-series cars are making about 22-24k, and the N/A Honda cars that have sold on there have made exactly the same. Cars seemed to be similar spec too, so it would suggest that in the case of the S1 Exige, a Honda-powered car is lineball with an original-spec car.

I know people are asking that money, but I doubt they are getting it....

last Exige I had cost £16K.....

last one I looked at was asking £19, and IMHO was not worth that - it's still for sale as far as I know.