Shimano Alfine Hubs

[dr_gn]

Guys & Girls,

Does anyone have any real world experience of these things? By that I mean extended use in gritty mud, being washed and generally ridden off-road in the accepted way?

I´ve always loved the idea of a hub gearbox and single chainring (long before the Alfines were available), and now I´m seriously considering one.

I´ve got an antique 1996 Marin Mount Vision, so presumably I could run with single chainring and no tension device without too much hassle with chain tension changes through the swingarm movement.

Is it acceptable/advisable/possible to fit them in vertical dropouts?

All my riding is in the Peak District, mostly XC / singletrack etc.

Thanks in advance.

[rhinochopig]

Shimano are bringing out a new MTB friendly gear hub - thought it would be out by now TBH. That said I've seen a couple of these on MTBs and they seem to be ok. Personally I'd wait. I want a belt drive rolhoff, but sadly my pockets aren't deep enough for that whim.

ETA slated for Sept http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/shimano-alf...

That would be my choice with a belt drive.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 14:54

[dr_gn]

rhinochopig said:

Shimano are bringing out a new MTB friendly gear hub - thought it would be out by now TBH. That said I've seen a couple of these on MTBs and they seem to be ok. Personally I'd wait. I want a belt drive rolhoff, but sadly my pockets aren't deep enough for that whim.

ETA slated for Sept http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/shimano-alf...

That would be my choice with a belt drive.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 14:54

Cheers for that I´ll read it all later.

Why belt drive? I´m assuming you mean a timing belt type of thing? I like the idea too, but I thought the roller chain was one of the most efficient methods of drive - plus it has the added advantage of loads of holes that mud can clear itself through with the action of the teeth. Wouldn´t a belt tend to skip because of compacted mud?

Have you happened to figure out equivalent ratios of a single chainring and Hub gear WRT a normal cassette and triple chainring? I´m interested mostly in the lower gears and ditch some of the higher ones if necessary

Cheers.

[rhinochopig]

dr_gn said:

rhinochopig said:

Shimano are bringing out a new MTB friendly gear hub - thought it would be out by now TBH. That said I've seen a couple of these on MTBs and they seem to be ok. Personally I'd wait. I want a belt drive rolhoff, but sadly my pockets aren't deep enough for that whim.

ETA slated for Sept http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/shimano-alf...

That would be my choice with a belt drive.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 14:54

Cheers for that I´ll read it all later.

Why belt drive? I´m assuming you mean a timing belt type of thing? I like the idea too, but I thought the roller chain was one of the most efficient methods of drive - plus it has the added advantage of loads of holes that mud can clear itself through with the action of the teeth. Wouldn´t a belt tend to skip because of compacted mud?

Have you happened to figure out equivalent ratios of a single chainring and Hub gear WRT a normal cassette and triple chainring? I´m interested mostly in the lower gears and ditch some of the higher ones if necessary

Cheers.

Belt drive here - http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/ Benefits are listed there.

I run a single front (middle) ring on my hardtail and have never missed the other gears TBH. An 8-11 speed hub is all you need and the spread of the gear hubs is way more than what I run.

ETA Pic of CDS in mud.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 15:23

[dr_gn]

rhinochopig said:

dr_gn said:

rhinochopig said:

Shimano are bringing out a new MTB friendly gear hub - thought it would be out by now TBH. That said I've seen a couple of these on MTBs and they seem to be ok. Personally I'd wait. I want a belt drive rolhoff, but sadly my pockets aren't deep enough for that whim.

ETA slated for Sept http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/shimano-alf...

That would be my choice with a belt drive.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 14:54

Cheers for that I´ll read it all later.

Why belt drive? I´m assuming you mean a timing belt type of thing? I like the idea too, but I thought the roller chain was one of the most efficient methods of drive - plus it has the added advantage of loads of holes that mud can clear itself through with the action of the teeth. Wouldn´t a belt tend to skip because of compacted mud?

Have you happened to figure out equivalent ratios of a single chainring and Hub gear WRT a normal cassette and triple chainring? I´m interested mostly in the lower gears and ditch some of the higher ones if necessary

Cheers.

Belt drive here - http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/ Benefits are listed there.

I run a single front (middle) ring on my hardtail and have never missed the other gears TBH. An 8-11 speed hub is all you need and the spread of the gear hubs is way more than what I run.

ETA Pic of CDS in mud.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 15:23

I see. Clever.

Was just´looking through MBR and the feature on the new Shimano 10 speed stuff and all the "advantages". The more I read all that guff the more I want a Gear Hub.

Cheers

[rhinochopig]

dr_gn said:

rhinochopig said:

dr_gn said:

rhinochopig said:

Shimano are bringing out a new MTB friendly gear hub - thought it would be out by now TBH. That said I've seen a couple of these on MTBs and they seem to be ok. Personally I'd wait. I want a belt drive rolhoff, but sadly my pockets aren't deep enough for that whim.

ETA slated for Sept http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/shimano-alf...

That would be my choice with a belt drive.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 14:54

Cheers for that I´ll read it all later.

Why belt drive? I´m assuming you mean a timing belt type of thing? I like the idea too, but I thought the roller chain was one of the most efficient methods of drive - plus it has the added advantage of loads of holes that mud can clear itself through with the action of the teeth. Wouldn´t a belt tend to skip because of compacted mud?

Have you happened to figure out equivalent ratios of a single chainring and Hub gear WRT a normal cassette and triple chainring? I´m interested mostly in the lower gears and ditch some of the higher ones if necessary

Cheers.

Belt drive here - http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/ Benefits are listed there.

I run a single front (middle) ring on my hardtail and have never missed the other gears TBH. An 8-11 speed hub is all you need and the spread of the gear hubs is way more than what I run.

ETA Pic of CDS in mud.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 7th June 15:23

I see. Clever.

Was just´looking through MBR and the feature on the new Shimano 10 speed stuff and all the "advantages". The more I read all that guff the more I want a Gear Hub.

Cheers

On a hard tail they really are a no brainer IMO as they are more reliable than a conventional set-up. Their key weakness though is that it places a lot of mass at the centre of the wheel, which on a FS design, is poor as it massively increases unsprung weight. Even on an HT design you can supposedly feel the mass in that position when lofting the rear wheel over obstacles etc. - that said, as the article lists they are winning races using them so obviously not too much of a problem.

[mk1fan]

I had one and it was ok. Gone single speed now.

I assume you got your original post wrong and you meant to say that you'd need a tensioner because you will.

I'd suggest Shimano's Alfine tensioner as it's basically a rear mech, ie it has two jockey wheels and will take up the constant chain growth/shrinkage of the suspension system whereas a normal single jockey tensioner won't.

They are heavy though and I did notice it. The position of the weight feels odd at first but you get used to it.

The gripshifter is arwful. It's got a really light action so accidental shifts are common. Sram Gripshift is ain't by a long way.

The STi shifter works fine. The shift is the opposite to Shimano's normal set up but I quickly adapted to it.

The don't like shifting down under load so gear changes mid climb require a lift off of power. Adapting to it is easy you just anticipate the shift earlier by reading the trail properly.

The ability to change gear whist stationary is very good.

Personally, I'd wait for the 11-speed version. Don't think I'd get one again though. The s/s that replaced it suits me better.

[Furberger]

I just ordered one of these for a spot of touring on my Pompino this summer.
What chain ring do you run?
I assume the rear sprocket isn't changeable?

[dr_gn]

mk1fan said:

I had one and it was ok. Gone single speed now.

I assume you got your original post wrong and you meant to say that you'd need a tensioner because you will.

I'd suggest Shimano's Alfine tensioner as it's basically a rear mech, ie it has two jockey wheels and will take up the constant chain growth/shrinkage of the suspension system whereas a normal single jockey tensioner won't.

They are heavy though and I did notice it. The position of the weight feels odd at first but you get used to it.

The gripshifter is arwful. It's got a really light action so accidental shifts are common. Sram Gripshift is ain't by a long way.

The STi shifter works fine. The shift is the opposite to Shimano's normal set up but I quickly adapted to it.

The don't like shifting down under load so gear changes mid climb require a lift off of power. Adapting to it is easy you just anticipate the shift earlier by reading the trail properly.

The ability to change gear whist stationary is very good.

Personally, I'd wait for the 11-speed version. Don't think I'd get one again though. The s/s that replaced it suits me better.

Thanks for that.

No, I didn´t get my post wrong, I didn´t know (or remember) whether a single speed chain had enough sag in it to take up the small amount of length change. (the pivot on my bike is fairly close to the BB centreline).

I found the Alfine tensioner, it doesn´t look bad - particularly the single wheel version. Getting rid of a tensioner altogether was another feature I´d like, so the weigh issues and that mean I think i´ll have to wait until technology progresses to at least a lighter mechanism before considering it again!

In theory, wouldn´t it be possible to build an oversize BB shell and fit the gearbox in that, and have the ´chainring´ on the wheel (to reduce weight / inertia at the rear) ?? Obviously the ratios would have to be changed around.

Cheers,

[rhinochopig]

dr_gn said:

mk1fan said:

I had one and it was ok. Gone single speed now.

I assume you got your original post wrong and you meant to say that you'd need a tensioner because you will.

I'd suggest Shimano's Alfine tensioner as it's basically a rear mech, ie it has two jockey wheels and will take up the constant chain growth/shrinkage of the suspension system whereas a normal single jockey tensioner won't.

They are heavy though and I did notice it. The position of the weight feels odd at first but you get used to it.

The gripshifter is arwful. It's got a really light action so accidental shifts are common. Sram Gripshift is ain't by a long way.

The STi shifter works fine. The shift is the opposite to Shimano's normal set up but I quickly adapted to it.

The don't like shifting down under load so gear changes mid climb require a lift off of power. Adapting to it is easy you just anticipate the shift earlier by reading the trail properly.

The ability to change gear whist stationary is very good.

Personally, I'd wait for the 11-speed version. Don't think I'd get one again though. The s/s that replaced it suits me better.

Thanks for that.

No, I didn´t get my post wrong, I didn´t know (or remember) whether a single speed chain had enough sag in it to take up the small amount of length change. (the pivot on my bike is fairly close to the BB centreline).

I found the Alfine tensioner, it doesn´t look bad - particularly the single wheel version. Getting rid of a tensioner altogether was another feature I´d like, so the weigh issues and that mean I think i´ll have to wait until technology progresses to at least a lighter mechanism before considering it again!

In theory, wouldn´t it be possible to build an oversize BB shell and fit the gearbox in that, and have the ´chainring´ on the wheel (to reduce weight / inertia at the rear) ?? Obviously the ratios would have to be changed around.

Cheers,

Yes - a few DH bixes have this set-up. Honda's WC bike had it, a few Nikolai bikes have it. In fact SRAM have developed an industry standard and were pushing the tech a couple of years ago.

[dr_gn]

rhinochopig said:

dr_gn said:

mk1fan said:

I had one and it was ok. Gone single speed now.

I assume you got your original post wrong and you meant to say that you'd need a tensioner because you will.

I'd suggest Shimano's Alfine tensioner as it's basically a rear mech, ie it has two jockey wheels and will take up the constant chain growth/shrinkage of the suspension system whereas a normal single jockey tensioner won't.

They are heavy though and I did notice it. The position of the weight feels odd at first but you get used to it.

The gripshifter is arwful. It's got a really light action so accidental shifts are common. Sram Gripshift is ain't by a long way.

The STi shifter works fine. The shift is the opposite to Shimano's normal set up but I quickly adapted to it.

The don't like shifting down under load so gear changes mid climb require a lift off of power. Adapting to it is easy you just anticipate the shift earlier by reading the trail properly.

The ability to change gear whist stationary is very good.

Personally, I'd wait for the 11-speed version. Don't think I'd get one again though. The s/s that replaced it suits me better.

Thanks for that.

No, I didn´t get my post wrong, I didn´t know (or remember) whether a single speed chain had enough sag in it to take up the small amount of length change. (the pivot on my bike is fairly close to the BB centreline).

I found the Alfine tensioner, it doesn´t look bad - particularly the single wheel version. Getting rid of a tensioner altogether was another feature I´d like, so the weigh issues and that mean I think i´ll have to wait until technology progresses to at least a lighter mechanism before considering it again!

In theory, wouldn´t it be possible to build an oversize BB shell and fit the gearbox in that, and have the ´chainring´ on the wheel (to reduce weight / inertia at the rear) ?? Obviously the ratios would have to be changed around.

Cheers,

Yes - a few DH bixes have this set-up. Honda's WC bike had it, a few Nikolai bikes have it. In fact SRAM have developed an industry standard and were pushing the tech a couple of years ago.

Didn´t the Honda one have a fairly complicated arrangement of chains and sprockets above the BB, or was that a different manufacturer?

[a11y_m]

I've been running an 8-speed Alfine hub offroad for over 2 years now through all sorts of the usual muddy crap and it's been faultless. Not been serviced in that time although it's something I might arrange soon for piece of mind.

You WILL need a tensioner, particularly on a full-suss where you will have chain growth during the action. A tensioner weighs next to nothing anyway so not exactly a chore having one.

I'd be tempted to hold out for the 11-speed Alfine due out soon, purely for the wider gear range it offers: still not as wide as the Rolhoff or a regular 3x9 set up, but better than the current 8-speed one.

I noticed the redistributd weight (at the rear wheel) at first but don't think twice about it now. I still think the idea of a gearbox-type device at the BB area with a simple single cog on the rear hub is the holy grail. It'd keep the weight central and would allow the use of a nicer rear hub, e.g. Hope singlespeed

[dr_gn]

a11y_m said:

I've been running an 8-speed Alfine hub offroad for over 2 years now through all sorts of the usual muddy crap and it's been faultless. Not been serviced in that time although it's something I might arrange soon for piece of mind.

You WILL need a tensioner, particularly on a full-suss where you will have chain growth during the action. A tensioner weighs next to nothing anyway so not exactly a chore having one.

I'd be tempted to hold out for the 11-speed Alfine due out soon, purely for the wider gear range it offers: still not as wide as the Rolhoff or a regular 3x9 set up, but better than the current 8-speed one.

I noticed the redistributd weight (at the rear wheel) at first but don't think twice about it now. I still think the idea of a gearbox-type device at the BB area with a simple single cog on the rear hub is the holy grail. It'd keep the weight central and would allow the use of a nicer rear hub, e.g. Hope singlespeed

Thanks for the info.

Might try strapping some lead weights to the back of the swingarm and seeing what it feels like.

It wasn't really the weight of the tensioner that bothered me, it's more getting rid of anything that hangs down and is vulnerable to damage.

I'm not too bothered about the higher gears - a chainring that gives me my current lowest gear would probably be ok - I can live with a lower top gear for the kind of riding I do.

I wonder if the 11 speed version will be any lighter?

Cheers,

[corkythecat]

i have a scott sub10 2010 model with the Shimano 8 speed internal gears and i am well impressed with it,no messing about with the chain coming off and with it been a sealed unit u dont have to worry about using the jet wash when cleaning it, i know i loose the uphill gears but i would rather get of than be pedeling and getting know where.

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/scott/sub-10-2...

this is the bike i have had now for 7 months and it has never let me down and i do about 50 mile a week going to work and back.