Mazda RX-8 R3. Financial suicide?
Discussion
Hi everyone.
I'd pretty much decided on a Honda S2000 (1 or 2yrs old), but happened to pass a local Mazda dealer yesterday and came across the new Mazda RX-8 R3. I wasn't a real big fan of the previous shape but I think the current model looks pretty aggressive, even with the odd Mazda swooshy front.
The interior is pretty nice too.
Looking at how the previous models residuals are, should I assume that the new one will be just as bad? Looking at 3yr old RX-8s at the minute they are selling for under £7-£8k which is scary cheap. Has anyone heard anything different?
The R3 retails new at £25k but there seem to be a few new/nearly new ones around £20k.
I'm aware of all the worries about the engine being thirsty and needing lots of oil etc. My main worry would be how shocked I'll be in 3 years time when I come to sell it.
I'm expecting any responses to say that I should expect the same with the new one as the old one, but was hoping that something might be different this time as it's a really smart looking car.
Ta
I'd pretty much decided on a Honda S2000 (1 or 2yrs old), but happened to pass a local Mazda dealer yesterday and came across the new Mazda RX-8 R3. I wasn't a real big fan of the previous shape but I think the current model looks pretty aggressive, even with the odd Mazda swooshy front.
The interior is pretty nice too.
Looking at how the previous models residuals are, should I assume that the new one will be just as bad? Looking at 3yr old RX-8s at the minute they are selling for under £7-£8k which is scary cheap. Has anyone heard anything different?
The R3 retails new at £25k but there seem to be a few new/nearly new ones around £20k.
I'm aware of all the worries about the engine being thirsty and needing lots of oil etc. My main worry would be how shocked I'll be in 3 years time when I come to sell it.
I'm expecting any responses to say that I should expect the same with the new one as the old one, but was hoping that something might be different this time as it's a really smart looking car.
Ta
I think this model is going to be the same story for Mazda in deprication as the older model.
What has changed ? They have improved :
The looks, suspension, brakes, steering.
They have not changed : The engine.
Now I think this is a bit of an own goal for Mazda here. People are scared of the engines on these. The looks, the handling were already class leading and have been made incrementaly better, and I don't see anything that is going to change the negative market perception of these cars.
Also history tends to suggest that Mazda "special editions" of an old soon to be replaced model depricate like a stone.
What has changed ? They have improved :
The looks, suspension, brakes, steering.
They have not changed : The engine.
Now I think this is a bit of an own goal for Mazda here. People are scared of the engines on these. The looks, the handling were already class leading and have been made incrementaly better, and I don't see anything that is going to change the negative market perception of these cars.
Also history tends to suggest that Mazda "special editions" of an old soon to be replaced model depricate like a stone.
Having lost enough money on a 12 month old one (bought at the time when three year residuals were still holding at 60%, just before all the cars Mazda sold to fleet buyers hit the market) I'd be wary of buying a brand new RX-8.
If I were after another one (and I really did like mine a lot), I would want the R3 model and if I couldn't stretch to the 15k or so that they currently fetch, I would wait a bit. There were some cosmetic changes in the facelift, but there were also some significant engineering changes - as well as a more focussed chassis setup, the engine has an extra oil injector per rotor and is likely to be more reliable than the previous model.
I don't think newer models will suffer quite such catastrophic depreciation as older ones did - it was oversupply along with instability in fuel and VED prices that really gave the prices a kicking first time round. That's assuming we don't get any more sudden big jumps in fuel prices and that Cameron et al don't start playing silly buggers with VED rates - people who buy a new one now know that it's going to be £435 a year in tax and 20mpg at well over a quid a litre, so they won't be looking to offload in panic.
If I were after another one (and I really did like mine a lot), I would want the R3 model and if I couldn't stretch to the 15k or so that they currently fetch, I would wait a bit. There were some cosmetic changes in the facelift, but there were also some significant engineering changes - as well as a more focussed chassis setup, the engine has an extra oil injector per rotor and is likely to be more reliable than the previous model.
I don't think newer models will suffer quite such catastrophic depreciation as older ones did - it was oversupply along with instability in fuel and VED prices that really gave the prices a kicking first time round. That's assuming we don't get any more sudden big jumps in fuel prices and that Cameron et al don't start playing silly buggers with VED rates - people who buy a new one now know that it's going to be £435 a year in tax and 20mpg at well over a quid a litre, so they won't be looking to offload in panic.
ExPat2B said:
I think this model is going to be the same story for Mazda in deprication as the older model.
What has changed ? They have improved :
The looks, suspension, brakes, steering.
They have not changed : The engine.
Stuff.
They haven't changed the engine apart from, a revised management system, and more crucially, a heavily revised oil injection and metering system - The new metering system reduces oil consumption by about 45% (They now use an average of 1 litre per 3,000 miles) No more really than the average Honda VTEC - There has also been an additional oil injector added, that was designed and tested to improve engine life.......What has changed ? They have improved :
The looks, suspension, brakes, steering.
They have not changed : The engine.
Stuff.
Other than that no changes at all, oh except for an all new gearbox, with revised ratios to help to improve fuel economy at motorway speeds.....
The RX-8 is an absolutely cracking car, made far better in R3 guise - The old and new cars are like chalk and cheese - The biggest problem with it, is the reputation it has gained by posts on forums by people that 'knew some bloke who's mate had one once, and it was nothing but trouble'
Oil usage is often talked up to be dreadful, but in truth (more so with the R3) consumption is only bad if you thrash the living daylights out of them, day in, day out. The metering system only adds as much oil as is required - The harder they are driven, the more the metering system injects.
If you look at the information above on oil usage for the R3, that's an additional 3 litres of oil between (Very cheap for a sports car) services
If you fancy one though, best get your skates on - It won't be available after the end of the year, as it doesn't meet Euro 5 emission regulations.....
Superhoop said:
ExPat2B said:
I think this model is going to be the same story for Mazda in deprication as the older model.
What has changed ? They have improved :
The looks, suspension, brakes, steering.
They have not changed : The engine.
Stuff.
They haven't changed the engine apart from, a revised management system, and more crucially, a heavily revised oil injection and metering system - The new metering system reduces oil consumption by about 45% (They now use an average of 1 litre per 3,000 miles) No more really than the average Honda VTEC - There has also been an additional oil injector added, that was designed and tested to improve engine life.......What has changed ? They have improved :
The looks, suspension, brakes, steering.
They have not changed : The engine.
Stuff.
Other than that no changes at all, oh except for an all new gearbox, with revised ratios to help to improve fuel economy at motorway speeds.....
The RX-8 is an absolutely cracking car, made far better in R3 guise - The old and new cars are like chalk and cheese - The biggest problem with it, is the reputation it has gained by posts on forums by people that 'knew some bloke who's mate had one once, and it was nothing but trouble'
Oil usage is often talked up to be dreadful, but in truth (more so with the R3) consumption is only bad if you thrash the living daylights out of them, day in, day out. The metering system only adds as much oil as is required - The harder they are driven, the more the metering system injects.
If you look at the information above on oil usage for the R3, that's an additional 3 litres of oil between (Very cheap for a sports car) services
If you fancy one though, best get your skates on - It won't be available after the end of the year, as it doesn't meet Euro 5 emission regulations.....
You're probably correct about the improvements but to the man in the street it's still a thirsty wankel.loose cannon said:
my m8 had a blue rx8 and it was absolutely horrendous on fuel, even after mods at the mazda garage and it wasnt even very quick. he traded it for a celica in the end... said it was the worst car he has ever owned.
What Celica can I ask as I thought they were all under 200bhp in the last variant guise?zcacogp said:
otolith said:
£435 a year in tax
Bu99er me - really? Why? How CO2 emissions, I guess ... <tossers>
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vedSearch....
Interesting that the "maximum band k" concession for pre-2006 cars is listed there as "All cars with a CO2 value over 225 and first registered between 1 March 2001 and 23 March 2006 will be capped at band K during 2009 and 201" - I wonder if that means that tax for our 2004 350Z is going to nearly double next year?
Bill said:
Munter said:
The drink problem/running costs and the "unusual" engine are the reason.
The (mostly) unfounded fears of the general public. They're a great used buy but IMO not special enough to justify the depreciation from new.I'm sure there are plenty of car lovers on here who have bought the car they've desired knowing that it'll drop in value like diaorreah down your leg.
loose cannon said:
my m8 had a blue rx8 and it was absolutely horrendous on fuel, even after mods at the mazda garage and it wasnt even very quick. he traded it for a celica in the end... said it was the worst car he has ever owned.
Each to their own - there's no way I'd rather have a Celica than an RX-8 - even if I were too poor to run an RX-8, that wouldn't be my choice of consolation prize. The Celica is slower, has inferior handling and while the power delivery of the Toyota engine is OK in my relatively lightweight Elise, it's a nasty, coarse and uncharismatic thing and the worst thing about my car. I'd hate to have to live with it in something heavier.Superhoop said:
They haven't changed the engine apart from, a revised management system, and more crucially, a heavily revised oil injection and metering system - The new metering system reduces oil consumption by about 45% (They now use an average of 1 litre per 3,000 miles) No more really than the average Honda VTEC .
Having run 5 different VTEC engines over biggish mileages I'd say the oil use is nowhere near that level, even if you're trashing it, assuming you stick with the service schedules.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff