Replacement wheels - one for the roadies
Discussion
Chaps,
A bit of advice wanted if possible. I'm thinking of changing my wheels on the road bike. I currently have some Shimano RH550s, which are basic, but fine. I've started to notice that they flex a little under load, and they can rub on the rear stays in particular (they're slightly out of true, which doesn't help).
So I'm thinking of some new wheels, and wondering which is the best choice between the mavin aksium or the Fulcrum 3. Anyone got any experience of either or able to suggest something else around the £400 mark?
S
A bit of advice wanted if possible. I'm thinking of changing my wheels on the road bike. I currently have some Shimano RH550s, which are basic, but fine. I've started to notice that they flex a little under load, and they can rub on the rear stays in particular (they're slightly out of true, which doesn't help).
So I'm thinking of some new wheels, and wondering which is the best choice between the mavin aksium or the Fulcrum 3. Anyone got any experience of either or able to suggest something else around the £400 mark?
S
Parsnip said:
Neither.
Go for a set of 28 spoke Mavic Open Pro Rims built onto a pair of Shimano Ultegra hubs. They aren't the lightest or the most aero, but they are the best training wheels you can lay your hands on. Spend the rest of your £400 on something else.
What makes them better though?Go for a set of 28 spoke Mavic Open Pro Rims built onto a pair of Shimano Ultegra hubs. They aren't the lightest or the most aero, but they are the best training wheels you can lay your hands on. Spend the rest of your £400 on something else.
The Ultegra hubs are brilliant, servicing is a doddle and the bearings last forever. The rims are bombproof, stiff enough for most and light enough for training. Of course, a lot depends on how they are built, but if it is done well, they will be the most solid set of wheels you will ever own.
Ultegra/Open Pros are brilliant for the price and are the perfect training/commuting wheel - have even done a few races on them and couldn't really complain- you need to spend a lot more to get something better.
Ultegra/Open Pros are brilliant for the price and are the perfect training/commuting wheel - have even done a few races on them and couldn't really complain- you need to spend a lot more to get something better.
Good advice with getting the hand built wheels but I am biased as I have some too. Handbuilts are the thinking mans wheel.
Mine are DT RR 1.1 rims on Dura Ace hubs....the DT rims are similar to the Open Pro's. If you can afford the DA hub I would give it serious consideration, it's brilliant. I took my bike into Cyclefit, the guy there just couldn't stop gushing about DA hubs....said he had built some wheels on Ultegra for himself as DA were out of stock at the time and regretted it.
Mine are DT RR 1.1 rims on Dura Ace hubs....the DT rims are similar to the Open Pro's. If you can afford the DA hub I would give it serious consideration, it's brilliant. I took my bike into Cyclefit, the guy there just couldn't stop gushing about DA hubs....said he had built some wheels on Ultegra for himself as DA were out of stock at the time and regretted it.
Agree with the above. If you are flexing the lower end Shimano wheels then you are going to run into the same problems with the more expensive / lighter ones.
Factory built wheels are fine, however they should be seen as disposable items. If the brake track on the rim wears out then the wheel needs to be replaced. If you snap a spoke you could be in for a long delay in finding a replacement. The nipples will be alloy, therefore easy to round off if you need to get them trued.
The beauty of a decent set of hand builts, is that they will last forever if you look after them. They will be serviceable without any special tools at any bike shop. Spare parts are readily available, plus if built with the right parts will be stronger and lighter than the weight of a set of comparable factory wheels.
Ok so the aesthetics aren't as nice as an ultra low spoke count wheel with flashy graphics, but if you shop around and source the parts yourself for your wheelbuilder you should be able to get something very nice.
If you are a heavier rider, capable of putting out decent power (and if you're flexing Shimano's bombproof wheels then I would say you are) then I would suggest you don't go less than 28 spokes up front in a 2 cross pattern, 32 spokes rear in a 3 cross DS and 2 cross NDS pattern
Some rims to consider:
Ambrosio Excellight http://www.ambrosio.co.uk/ambrosio_rims_clincher.h...
DT Swiss RR 465 http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Rims/RR...
Mavic Open Pro http://www.mavic.com/road/products/open-pro.323926...
Spokes (use brass nipples on rear wheel, if not all round):
DT Revolution: http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Spokes/...
Sapim CX Ray: http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=...
Hubs:
Personal choice, I like Shimano hubs as they are pretty silent and good value. Not the lightest but very strong. Ultegra or Dura Ace depending on budget (DA would take you over budget by about £80 by my reckoning, Ultegra would get you in on budget)
Something like that will be under 1500g for the pair too.
I can recommend a good wheelbuilder if you like?
Factory built wheels are fine, however they should be seen as disposable items. If the brake track on the rim wears out then the wheel needs to be replaced. If you snap a spoke you could be in for a long delay in finding a replacement. The nipples will be alloy, therefore easy to round off if you need to get them trued.
The beauty of a decent set of hand builts, is that they will last forever if you look after them. They will be serviceable without any special tools at any bike shop. Spare parts are readily available, plus if built with the right parts will be stronger and lighter than the weight of a set of comparable factory wheels.
Ok so the aesthetics aren't as nice as an ultra low spoke count wheel with flashy graphics, but if you shop around and source the parts yourself for your wheelbuilder you should be able to get something very nice.
If you are a heavier rider, capable of putting out decent power (and if you're flexing Shimano's bombproof wheels then I would say you are) then I would suggest you don't go less than 28 spokes up front in a 2 cross pattern, 32 spokes rear in a 3 cross DS and 2 cross NDS pattern
Some rims to consider:
Ambrosio Excellight http://www.ambrosio.co.uk/ambrosio_rims_clincher.h...
DT Swiss RR 465 http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Rims/RR...
Mavic Open Pro http://www.mavic.com/road/products/open-pro.323926...
Spokes (use brass nipples on rear wheel, if not all round):
DT Revolution: http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Spokes/...
Sapim CX Ray: http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=...
Hubs:
Personal choice, I like Shimano hubs as they are pretty silent and good value. Not the lightest but very strong. Ultegra or Dura Ace depending on budget (DA would take you over budget by about £80 by my reckoning, Ultegra would get you in on budget)
Something like that will be under 1500g for the pair too.
I can recommend a good wheelbuilder if you like?
Well, with no disrespect intended (dons flame suit) here's a slightly different take on it.....
First point - are you sure your existing wheels are ok, because it takes quite a lot to flex a wheel so much that it hits the frame ? Rubbing on the brakes, yes, that's only 1 or 2mm flex, but unless you have wide tyres on a very closely built frame you're probably talking of 5mm flex to rub at either the seat or chainstays, and that's a very sloppy wheel. Even budget shimanos shouldn't be doing that much flex.
So my first thoughts were that I'd check out the bearings, QR for tightness, loose spokes or how true the existing rims are.
Whether you go for factory built or handbuilt is one of those never-ending debates, with plus and minus on both sides. But if your main reason for change is down to stiffness then before you jump either way, have you seen Sheldon Brown's page on testing lateral wheel stiffness ? If not, it's worth a read, it makes some interesting points on wheel design & components.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm
My take on this is probably different from the other posters in that I don't have any strong preferences for factory vs handbuilts so I'd be quite happy riding either of your choices.
Personally I'd lean towards the mavics. No strong reason other than a friend has Fulcrum R1s (I think) which replaced a long run of Mavic Kysriums and he's been quite disappointed with the wear rate on the brake surfaces compared with the mavics.
At the moment I'm alternating between 2 bikes; one has factory built clinchers (Eastons, forget the model but were around £200 a set) and the other has handbuilts; ultegra 32/32 hubs with tubular rims which I built and probably cost a bit less. Neither of them flex enough to hit the brake blocks but I'm not particularly heavy (11 stone), don't lean the bike that much when out of the saddle and I'm certainly not a powerful rider.
The main point of my post though is that handbuilts are entirely dependent upon who builds them. I've bought handbuilt clincher and sprints from supposedly skilled bike shops which were absolutely dreadful, loose spokes, flexing enough to hit the speedo sensor, etc. Whereas factory built wheels are more of a known item and you're far more likely to get repeatably good set of wheels from Mavic than you are from a random selection of wheel builders.
So - as the other posters have inferred, if you go handbuilt then you really need someone who can build and maintain them because as soon as a clot with a spoke key comes near, all the good work can be wrecked in seconds. And as these guys say, Open Pro/Ultegra at 32/32 are plenty good enough to both race and train on.
But if you don't have a suitable LBS, then I'd go factory built myself and I'd pick the Mavics. Yes, if a spoke goes it will be a pain, but if you have to mail-order your handbuilts then any problem will be just as much hassle if you don't have the skills to fix 'em.
First point - are you sure your existing wheels are ok, because it takes quite a lot to flex a wheel so much that it hits the frame ? Rubbing on the brakes, yes, that's only 1 or 2mm flex, but unless you have wide tyres on a very closely built frame you're probably talking of 5mm flex to rub at either the seat or chainstays, and that's a very sloppy wheel. Even budget shimanos shouldn't be doing that much flex.
So my first thoughts were that I'd check out the bearings, QR for tightness, loose spokes or how true the existing rims are.
Whether you go for factory built or handbuilt is one of those never-ending debates, with plus and minus on both sides. But if your main reason for change is down to stiffness then before you jump either way, have you seen Sheldon Brown's page on testing lateral wheel stiffness ? If not, it's worth a read, it makes some interesting points on wheel design & components.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm
My take on this is probably different from the other posters in that I don't have any strong preferences for factory vs handbuilts so I'd be quite happy riding either of your choices.
Personally I'd lean towards the mavics. No strong reason other than a friend has Fulcrum R1s (I think) which replaced a long run of Mavic Kysriums and he's been quite disappointed with the wear rate on the brake surfaces compared with the mavics.
At the moment I'm alternating between 2 bikes; one has factory built clinchers (Eastons, forget the model but were around £200 a set) and the other has handbuilts; ultegra 32/32 hubs with tubular rims which I built and probably cost a bit less. Neither of them flex enough to hit the brake blocks but I'm not particularly heavy (11 stone), don't lean the bike that much when out of the saddle and I'm certainly not a powerful rider.
The main point of my post though is that handbuilts are entirely dependent upon who builds them. I've bought handbuilt clincher and sprints from supposedly skilled bike shops which were absolutely dreadful, loose spokes, flexing enough to hit the speedo sensor, etc. Whereas factory built wheels are more of a known item and you're far more likely to get repeatably good set of wheels from Mavic than you are from a random selection of wheel builders.
So - as the other posters have inferred, if you go handbuilt then you really need someone who can build and maintain them because as soon as a clot with a spoke key comes near, all the good work can be wrecked in seconds. And as these guys say, Open Pro/Ultegra at 32/32 are plenty good enough to both race and train on.
But if you don't have a suitable LBS, then I'd go factory built myself and I'd pick the Mavics. Yes, if a spoke goes it will be a pain, but if you have to mail-order your handbuilts then any problem will be just as much hassle if you don't have the skills to fix 'em.
Thanks for the advice all. The factory v built argument is an interesting one.
The bearings and QR etc are fine on the current wheel, but the flex is new and a little concerning. It is slightly out of true and the wheels are around 4 years old, so I wonder if some of the spokes have loosened? I couldn't feel any one of them being noticeably looser than another however.
The bearings and QR etc are fine on the current wheel, but the flex is new and a little concerning. It is slightly out of true and the wheels are around 4 years old, so I wonder if some of the spokes have loosened? I couldn't feel any one of them being noticeably looser than another however.
Stuart said:
Chaps,
A bit of advice wanted if possible. I'm thinking of changing my wheels on the road bike. I currently have some Shimano RH550s, which are basic, but fine. I've started to notice that they flex a little under load, and they can rub on the rear stays in particular (they're slightly out of true, which doesn't help).
So I'm thinking of some new wheels, and wondering which is the best choice between the mavin aksium or the Fulcrum 3. Anyone got any experience of either or able to suggest something else around the £400 mark?
S
Are you sure you're flexing that through sheer strength? Sounds like the wheel needs attention to me asap, not true, acting like it's flexing...hmmm... needs a true-up and spoke tension checked...A bit of advice wanted if possible. I'm thinking of changing my wheels on the road bike. I currently have some Shimano RH550s, which are basic, but fine. I've started to notice that they flex a little under load, and they can rub on the rear stays in particular (they're slightly out of true, which doesn't help).
So I'm thinking of some new wheels, and wondering which is the best choice between the mavin aksium or the Fulcrum 3. Anyone got any experience of either or able to suggest something else around the £400 mark?
S
As for wheel choices...
Mavic Krysium Elite's here - good enough training wheel but I'll be using for Windsor and L2B as well.
Can't get them yet but will get some SRAM S60/Zipp 808's for racing... YUM!!
My commuter has a Mavic Aksium at the rear and the original Alexrims front from 2005!! Still runs true and never needed a thing.
Stuart said:
Thanks for the advice all. The factory v built argument is an interesting one.
The bearings and QR etc are fine on the current wheel, but the flex is new and a little concerning. It is slightly out of true and the wheels are around 4 years old, so I wonder if some of the spokes have loosened? I couldn't feel any one of them being noticeably looser than another however.
All the spokes should give the same sort of "ping" sounds when you pluck at them - very hard to describe but obvious once you know what you're looking for ! I don't have a lot of experience of factory wheels, but every one I've seen has had very high spoke tensions. Grasping two adjacent spokes and trying to compress them is hard work....The bearings and QR etc are fine on the current wheel, but the flex is new and a little concerning. It is slightly out of true and the wheels are around 4 years old, so I wonder if some of the spokes have loosened? I couldn't feel any one of them being noticeably looser than another however.
One thing that still puzzles me is that you say the flex is "new" - did it arrive at the same time as the wheel buckle ? if not, and then we can discount that as a factor.
It might be worth checking the rims themselves, look for cracks at the spoke holes on the drive side of the rear wheel. I've had to replace sprint rims due to cracking in that position and once it starts they do flex a bit (although never enough to hit the frame)
Had a good look over the wheel with my neighbour today, who's judgement I trust. I've ordered some new wheels. The wheel has a massive kink, which I think I picked up in the week at the same time as a pinch puncture. I always run my tyres very hard I'm a bit OCD about checking the pressures, so it was a real surprise and my first puncture in 18 months and I think I must have damaged it then. Looking closely at the spokes, they're starting to pick up a fair amount of rust and the tensions are out all over the place. Final straw was that my LBS can't fit the wheel in for truing until the 16th June (must be all the pre L2B servicing I guess) so I've bitten the bullet and ordered some new wheels on Wiggle tonight.
I went for the Fulcrums over the Mavics in the end, largely based on personal recommendation from a couple of non PHers who've had both. The 2010 wheels are well thought of too, and with much quieter freehubs. I also had a chance to look at some fulcrum 5s in LBS, and was very impressed by what I saw.
Just don't tell the wife...
I went for the Fulcrums over the Mavics in the end, largely based on personal recommendation from a couple of non PHers who've had both. The 2010 wheels are well thought of too, and with much quieter freehubs. I also had a chance to look at some fulcrum 5s in LBS, and was very impressed by what I saw.
Just don't tell the wife...
itsnotarace said:
Well done that man! Order cancelled and replaced with Merlin.
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