Major problems with new Clio 200
Discussion
Looking for some advice on where I go with a new Clio 200 that i purchased in February from a large chain of Renault garages in the North of England and Scotland.
I bought the car in January over the phone when I was working in Croatia from a dealer in Harrogate it was then subsequently delivered to me in Aberdeen in February, brand new with 10 miles on the clock. The only reason I bought from Harrogate instead of Aberdeen as they were the only garage of the 10 that I emailed who bothered replying to my request for a quote.
Anyway, picked it up and drove it around, seemed ok apart from it pulling to the left, I was extremely busy when I got the car with just starting a new business so ignored it for the first few weeks as had no time to look into it. Finally it was getting worse and worse and came to the point where I had to sort it out. I just assumed that it was the tracking that was out so instead of taking it to the local dealer I took it to a garage where my friend works to pay to get is aligned properly as they have a proper Hunter geometry set up and build rally cars I thought they would be better then the local dealer. Turns out that the thrust angle on the rear axle was 9 minutes out hence the reason it was by now severly pulling to the left.
I then went straight to the dealer with the geometery print out and told them that the back axle was out of line, they then fitted a new axle to the back under the advice of Renault, this took them 3 days and as they never had any alignment gear they had to farm it out to the local Jag garage to get it set up properly. In the process they managed to kerb a wheel and damage a tyre and also mark the other wheels with the alignment gauges!!!
As you can imagine upset is an understatement. So they refurbed the wheels and fitted 2 new tyres to the front. Anyway the pulling was still there slightly and gradually it has got worse and worse to the point where it is now almost as bad as before. They have it in again this time for this and other faults, I took the head tech out in it to show him the fault which he agreed was there but may not be severe enough for Renault to do anything about. This is b
ks, the car wants to spear off into the verge at any chance possible and you constantly have to maintain pressure on the steering wheel to keep it in a straight line. Now the workshop manager is saying that as far as he can tell it is not pulling and there is nothing they are going to do with it and its ok as long as you do not take your hands off the wheel!!!!!
It also has other faults as well as this:
There was a clicking noise from the clutch pedal and they have now changed the master clutch cylinder.
The car runs terribly from cold, it does not rev cleanly and sometimes almost cuts out until warm, they have looked at this 3 times now and cannot find a fault and say that it is a charateristic of the highly tuned engine which again is bks.
There is a strange noise from the drivers side front wheel but it only occurs under certain conditions and it is very hard to reproduce, unfortunately one of the places it does do it is every time I pull into my drive (its a chattering type noise that lasts for over a second, very strange).
I've told them that I want to reject the car if it is not fixed this time, and they are saying that there is no fault. The tech I took out is just saying that Renault say that it is a drift and not a pull and as long as the car is now within the Renault specifications there is nothing they will do about it and not accept any fault.
Where should I go now?
I bought the car in January over the phone when I was working in Croatia from a dealer in Harrogate it was then subsequently delivered to me in Aberdeen in February, brand new with 10 miles on the clock. The only reason I bought from Harrogate instead of Aberdeen as they were the only garage of the 10 that I emailed who bothered replying to my request for a quote.
Anyway, picked it up and drove it around, seemed ok apart from it pulling to the left, I was extremely busy when I got the car with just starting a new business so ignored it for the first few weeks as had no time to look into it. Finally it was getting worse and worse and came to the point where I had to sort it out. I just assumed that it was the tracking that was out so instead of taking it to the local dealer I took it to a garage where my friend works to pay to get is aligned properly as they have a proper Hunter geometry set up and build rally cars I thought they would be better then the local dealer. Turns out that the thrust angle on the rear axle was 9 minutes out hence the reason it was by now severly pulling to the left.
I then went straight to the dealer with the geometery print out and told them that the back axle was out of line, they then fitted a new axle to the back under the advice of Renault, this took them 3 days and as they never had any alignment gear they had to farm it out to the local Jag garage to get it set up properly. In the process they managed to kerb a wheel and damage a tyre and also mark the other wheels with the alignment gauges!!!
As you can imagine upset is an understatement. So they refurbed the wheels and fitted 2 new tyres to the front. Anyway the pulling was still there slightly and gradually it has got worse and worse to the point where it is now almost as bad as before. They have it in again this time for this and other faults, I took the head tech out in it to show him the fault which he agreed was there but may not be severe enough for Renault to do anything about. This is b
ks, the car wants to spear off into the verge at any chance possible and you constantly have to maintain pressure on the steering wheel to keep it in a straight line. Now the workshop manager is saying that as far as he can tell it is not pulling and there is nothing they are going to do with it and its ok as long as you do not take your hands off the wheel!!!!!It also has other faults as well as this:
There was a clicking noise from the clutch pedal and they have now changed the master clutch cylinder.
The car runs terribly from cold, it does not rev cleanly and sometimes almost cuts out until warm, they have looked at this 3 times now and cannot find a fault and say that it is a charateristic of the highly tuned engine which again is b
ks.There is a strange noise from the drivers side front wheel but it only occurs under certain conditions and it is very hard to reproduce, unfortunately one of the places it does do it is every time I pull into my drive (its a chattering type noise that lasts for over a second, very strange).
I've told them that I want to reject the car if it is not fixed this time, and they are saying that there is no fault. The tech I took out is just saying that Renault say that it is a drift and not a pull and as long as the car is now within the Renault specifications there is nothing they will do about it and not accept any fault.
Where should I go now?
Renault Customer Services.
I have found that when the right manager takes ownership they can get results from the dealer.
Reference the noise we had the same thing on an Espace. New exactly what the road circumstances were that would cause the noise, but no suitable roads near the dealer. With the help of RCS and a lot of pushing the dealer did agree to come out to me (30 mile trip). Sadly I sold the car a couple of days before the mechanic came out.
Other suggestion would be to change dealers. Also worth a look at www.renaultforums.co.uk
I have found that when the right manager takes ownership they can get results from the dealer.
Reference the noise we had the same thing on an Espace. New exactly what the road circumstances were that would cause the noise, but no suitable roads near the dealer. With the help of RCS and a lot of pushing the dealer did agree to come out to me (30 mile trip). Sadly I sold the car a couple of days before the mechanic came out.
Other suggestion would be to change dealers. Also worth a look at www.renaultforums.co.uk
I have a 197, the cold thing is the same on mine. Until its warm ish it has sod all power and feels like a right dog. Mine however doesnt try to stall?
My car is currently with Renault having a wheel fixed and suspension checked after a diesely moment on a rounabout, but i've found them to be ok.
I suggest Renault UK, if no joy tell them next stop =
My car is currently with Renault having a wheel fixed and suspension checked after a diesely moment on a rounabout, but i've found them to be ok.
I suggest Renault UK, if no joy tell them next stop =
The cold start issue is a known one and would appear "characteristic" of the car.
The pulling should be simple to locate the reason for and fix. IF there is a problem. I say IF as some cars "do" have a pull to the nearside, on uk roads, just caused by the camber of the road against the front geometry. Golf Mk4s for example are notorious for it.
Why not get it in to your mate's allignment place, the ones who found the bent rear axle and see what they say is going on? If the rear axles was not bent, but just thrust line out, is it possible the dealer just undid it all and redid it all back up?Could you tell that there had been a new axle put in, it's a fair bit of work to be fair?
Also, try one of the clio racer teams maybe, ask them who they use for allignment, describe the issue and see if they knwo what would be causing it. I know they drive on track with little road camber, but they may well understand the trait and cause of the issue, then even if it is back in spec if its on the outside tollerance, you may feel this pull.
Finally, do check obvious stuff, ie tyre pressures all the same! A soft one may not be visible but on some cars will give a proper pull toward it, (on front in particular). Also how many miles did you do wiht the rear axle fault? 9 minutes of error is pretty big and could have caused some very uneven tyre wear to new tyres in a short time. If the rear tyres are still on the rear since the change, swap them to the front, see if it imporves it. They will scrub up more on the front quicker. If they have already been seapped about, try a swap to rear anyway, it may make it better or worse.
A duff tyre can be a right pain on a new car on my S3 I had the thing back into the dealer comlaining of the rear diff whining they changed fluids, oil, diff bearing, in the end shuvved a brand new £2500 diff in it, whine still there. At 14k miles and year old, I had new tyres on te rear (changed fronts at 10k) and wo and behold no more whine! I never did tell the dealer!!
PS there is a member on here who works for renault, at HO I think. Or he did so late last year at least. I'm sure he may show his face here soon! !
The pulling should be simple to locate the reason for and fix. IF there is a problem. I say IF as some cars "do" have a pull to the nearside, on uk roads, just caused by the camber of the road against the front geometry. Golf Mk4s for example are notorious for it.
Why not get it in to your mate's allignment place, the ones who found the bent rear axle and see what they say is going on? If the rear axles was not bent, but just thrust line out, is it possible the dealer just undid it all and redid it all back up?Could you tell that there had been a new axle put in, it's a fair bit of work to be fair?
Also, try one of the clio racer teams maybe, ask them who they use for allignment, describe the issue and see if they knwo what would be causing it. I know they drive on track with little road camber, but they may well understand the trait and cause of the issue, then even if it is back in spec if its on the outside tollerance, you may feel this pull.
Finally, do check obvious stuff, ie tyre pressures all the same! A soft one may not be visible but on some cars will give a proper pull toward it, (on front in particular). Also how many miles did you do wiht the rear axle fault? 9 minutes of error is pretty big and could have caused some very uneven tyre wear to new tyres in a short time. If the rear tyres are still on the rear since the change, swap them to the front, see if it imporves it. They will scrub up more on the front quicker. If they have already been seapped about, try a swap to rear anyway, it may make it better or worse.
A duff tyre can be a right pain on a new car on my S3 I had the thing back into the dealer comlaining of the rear diff whining they changed fluids, oil, diff bearing, in the end shuvved a brand new £2500 diff in it, whine still there. At 14k miles and year old, I had new tyres on te rear (changed fronts at 10k) and wo and behold no more whine! I never did tell the dealer!!
PS there is a member on here who works for renault, at HO I think. Or he did so late last year at least. I'm sure he may show his face here soon! !
Edited by s3fella on Sunday 30th May 11:41
Right, me again. This is still going nowhere.
Since last time, 4 weeks ago I took the Service Manager out in the car to show him that the thing was pulling, again he denied it and kept saying that it was all within spec, blah de blah. This time I demanded to see the alignment sheet that they had done. When I got this it, it showed that it was out of spec on the back and now massively out on the front as well as they had altered this to hide the rear being out of line. So evidence in hand I wrote a long letter to reject the car detailing all the evidence and sent it to the garage, Renault and the finance company. None are apparently interested so its now onto Solicitors.
First thing he has advised me to do is get an independent inpection done to aid our case when it goes to court so does anyone have any suggestions of where to get this done in Aberdeen? I thought maybe VOSA would be best but apparently they do not do this and I doubt the AA or RAC would be detailed enough and certainly not be able to perform GEO checks. I really want some sort of independent expert motor engineer to look at it who would be willing to stand in court if required not just another garage, so any suggestions.
Cheers, one extremely hacked off Renault customer, although maybe I should maybe blame the garage more but probably not allowed to say on here although I think they are the only garage to sell Renaults in Aberdeen and Harrogate so you can work it out.
Since last time, 4 weeks ago I took the Service Manager out in the car to show him that the thing was pulling, again he denied it and kept saying that it was all within spec, blah de blah. This time I demanded to see the alignment sheet that they had done. When I got this it, it showed that it was out of spec on the back and now massively out on the front as well as they had altered this to hide the rear being out of line. So evidence in hand I wrote a long letter to reject the car detailing all the evidence and sent it to the garage, Renault and the finance company. None are apparently interested so its now onto Solicitors.
First thing he has advised me to do is get an independent inpection done to aid our case when it goes to court so does anyone have any suggestions of where to get this done in Aberdeen? I thought maybe VOSA would be best but apparently they do not do this and I doubt the AA or RAC would be detailed enough and certainly not be able to perform GEO checks. I really want some sort of independent expert motor engineer to look at it who would be willing to stand in court if required not just another garage, so any suggestions.
Cheers, one extremely hacked off Renault customer, although maybe I should maybe blame the garage more but probably not allowed to say on here although I think they are the only garage to sell Renaults in Aberdeen and Harrogate so you can work it out.
I've heard a lot of reports about tracking problems on the 200 from the factory. It seems a lot of them are just not set up right when built.
A lot of people are reporting that as well as pulling to the left the steering wheel is not centred, which is made more obvious by the coloured centre band.
Plenty of posts on Renaultsport about it. AFAIK several people have had this resolved to their satisfaction. Have you been in contact with Renault CS?
A lot of people are reporting that as well as pulling to the left the steering wheel is not centred, which is made more obvious by the coloured centre band.
Plenty of posts on Renaultsport about it. AFAIK several people have had this resolved to their satisfaction. Have you been in contact with Renault CS?
cerbfan said:
Cheers, one extremely hacked off Renault customer, although maybe I should maybe blame the garage more but probably not allowed to say on here although I think they are the only garage to sell Renaults in Aberdeen and Harrogate so you can work it out.
Thanks for the update. As long as you don't name them I would think it is fine to leave readers with an exercise in google if they really want the name. Hope you get it sorted soon.
David87 said:
Sorry to hear of your problems - not very good at all! One thing I would say, though, is that both the 197 and 200 are known to run poorly until warm, so unless the problem is severe it's the norm.
Is this for real? Renault sell a car that runs like crap until it's warmed up?? What happens if you pull out to overtake when the car decides it is still cold??Wow, that just a bit scary.
I'd give Renault UK a call on 08000 72 33 72 and explain the issues. They are usually very good, especially when you are not happy with a particular garage with the customer service. Remember, the garage is a franchise and as with any franchise it can be difficult to get 100% great people who really want to run a garage. I imagine a lot of garage owners are only really interested in sales as that's where the money is (short sighted, I know, but that's the problem). To many you will simply be an inconvenience.
My 197 doesn't run smooth until warm and kangaroos a bit on pull away. It is a characteristic of the car though.
There were lots of complaints on the renaultsport forum about a year ago and I think renault put out a statement saying to leave it running for a few minutes before driving!
There were lots of complaints on the renaultsport forum about a year ago and I think renault put out a statement saying to leave it running for a few minutes before driving!
R11ysf said:
David87 said:
Sorry to hear of your problems - not very good at all! One thing I would say, though, is that both the 197 and 200 are known to run poorly until warm, so unless the problem is severe it's the norm.
Is this for real? Renault sell a car that runs like crap until it's warmed up?? What happens if you pull out to overtake when the car decides it is still cold??Wow, that just a bit scary.
Personally i'll always warm a car up properly before expecting anything from the engine.
R11ysf said:
David87 said:
Sorry to hear of your problems - not very good at all! One thing I would say, though, is that both the 197 and 200 are known to run poorly until warm, so unless the problem is severe it's the norm.
Is this for real? Renault sell a car that runs like crap until it's warmed up?? What happens if you pull out to overtake when the car decides it is still cold??Wow, that just a bit scary.
And there they were touting how much better-built the new Clio was than the last one!
If Renault UK have been included in the original set of letters and refused to accept your rejection, then as you say, solicitors it is. An independent mechanical assessment from somebody good will be excellent ammunition and hard for them to refute, but it will cost you up-front.
VOSA a good starting point, IF they do them - the one time I rang them (re: an LGV parking on a residential road) they weren't that good over the phone though. So might need to find a suitable contact to ask the right questions of.
Failing that, an independent Renault specialist would be a good alternative.
Also keep all the documentation/correspondence and make a log of all the visits to the dealer, all the calls, and the attitudes/comments of the people you dealt with.
If Renault UK have been included in the original set of letters and refused to accept your rejection, then as you say, solicitors it is. An independent mechanical assessment from somebody good will be excellent ammunition and hard for them to refute, but it will cost you up-front.
VOSA a good starting point, IF they do them - the one time I rang them (re: an LGV parking on a residential road) they weren't that good over the phone though. So might need to find a suitable contact to ask the right questions of.
Failing that, an independent Renault specialist would be a good alternative.
Also keep all the documentation/correspondence and make a log of all the visits to the dealer, all the calls, and the attitudes/comments of the people you dealt with.
blueone97 said:
My 197 doesn't run smooth until warm and kangaroos a bit on pull away. It is a characteristic of the car though.
There were lots of complaints on the renaultsport forum about a year ago and I think renault put out a statement saying to leave it running for a few minutes before driving!
Ah just like the good old days of carburettors and manual chokes, having to go out of your house 5 minutes earlier than you want to set off, just to 'warm the old girl up'. With all good luck to the OP, I'm sure, as many have said, sales of goods act must apply, surely not entirely fit for purpose, or in a condition deemed to be reasonable for the price and percieved quality of the product. There were lots of complaints on the renaultsport forum about a year ago and I think renault put out a statement saying to leave it running for a few minutes before driving!
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