Property auctions and bidding against the wall
Discussion
I've bought a few properties at auction and know the score pretty well. Or so I thought....
I went to Savills today and ended up bidding against the wall. I spotted it, stopped, the bidding carried on about 20k further between 2 fantom bidder and then the acutioneer announced it hadn't met it's reserve. I was then approached by one of the assistants who advised I could probably purchase it for about the price of my last bid and he wanted my details. When I asked about the other 2 "bidders", he told me they were investors who would buy other stuff and wouldn't be interested in this now.
Do I look blonde?
I didn't leave my details and told him I wasn't interested now either and will put in a low post auction offer in a few days when expectations are lowered.
Anyone had a similar experience?
I went to Savills today and ended up bidding against the wall. I spotted it, stopped, the bidding carried on about 20k further between 2 fantom bidder and then the acutioneer announced it hadn't met it's reserve. I was then approached by one of the assistants who advised I could probably purchase it for about the price of my last bid and he wanted my details. When I asked about the other 2 "bidders", he told me they were investors who would buy other stuff and wouldn't be interested in this now.
Do I look blonde?
I didn't leave my details and told him I wasn't interested now either and will put in a low post auction offer in a few days when expectations are lowered.
Anyone had a similar experience?
t happens; sadly there isn't much you can do beyond what you've already done.anonymous said:
[redacted]
I've seen a few people get bid up by the wall, so stood right by the front looking back for exactly this reason. I always do this and the auctioneer in seeing I'm watching the room has never tried this with me before. Today to have both bids coming off the wall and go well over my last bid was a joke. Then to be told my massively under bid would probably be accepted was just hilarious!I do really want the place and there's a good profit in it, so yep, I'll offer 5k under my last offer and leave it a few days.
This is standard auction house practice, in the same way getting your auntie to bid against the winner is on ebay.
Back corner and if you can't don't be afraid to say "Hang on a second, you're not taking bids off the wall are you?" Call their bluff, the person with the money always gets the last word.
Back corner and if you can't don't be afraid to say "Hang on a second, you're not taking bids off the wall are you?" Call their bluff, the person with the money always gets the last word.
Its perfectly legal, the auction house wants to sell the property. They are allowed to take bids off the wall up until they reach the reserve but no further. Its not like the auctioneer is ripping the bidder off, the bidder should know what the maximum is they are willing pay and not go over it. If they didn't take bids off the wall the buyer may not have a chance to buy a property unless the seller is willing to take an offer after the auction, which many are not as a lot of properties are put in auction as it is the best way to demonstrate for legal purposes that a property has reached a market value.
champ54321 said:
Its perfectly legal, the auction house wants to sell the property. They are allowed to take bids off the wall up until they reach the reserve but no further. Its not like the auctioneer is ripping the bidder off, the bidder should know what the maximum is they are willing pay and not go over it. If they didn't take bids off the wall the buyer may not have a chance to buy a property unless the seller is willing to take an offer after the auction, which many are not as a lot of properties are put in auction as it is the best way to demonstrate for legal purposes that a property has reached a market value.
Am I being thick, or is that contradictory? Or at least contrary? Can someone explain this because my logic circuits just fused. I can understand this is frustrating but does it really matter.
You put in a bid for it & were happy to pay that price for it.
You have now been presented with the opportunity to purchase it at the price you were comfortable with & say there is a good margin in it.
What difference does it make?
You put in a bid for it & were happy to pay that price for it.
You have now been presented with the opportunity to purchase it at the price you were comfortable with & say there is a good margin in it.
What difference does it make?
Taking bids off the wall - completely legal
I know auctioneers fake phone bids and this is legal too
Presumably it's legal for auctioneers to put their own employees in the crowd to bid on a property upto the reserve. However, does anyone know if this parctise happens? Both myself and a developer mate believe it does at some auctions and with Savills in particular, I've noticed the same person becoming the winning bidder on a couple of lots per auction and seen them do this at a few auctions, however they've always failed to win and are told it didn't hit reserve. May be genuine, but seems very suspicious!
I know auctioneers fake phone bids and this is legal too
Presumably it's legal for auctioneers to put their own employees in the crowd to bid on a property upto the reserve. However, does anyone know if this parctise happens? Both myself and a developer mate believe it does at some auctions and with Savills in particular, I've noticed the same person becoming the winning bidder on a couple of lots per auction and seen them do this at a few auctions, however they've always failed to win and are told it didn't hit reserve. May be genuine, but seems very suspicious!
It is perfectly legal for a vendors representative,do bid on the vendors behalf , up to the reserve (if there is one). They can do such, because the item is *not* for sale below that reserve.
Once the item, has met that reserve, then it is illegal for the vendor (or his agent(s) ) to bid on his own item , as the item is then for sale.
Another little known law, is that the auctioneers estimate cannot (or legally shouldn't be) be lower than any reserve set. Interesting to watch estimates against bidding patterns....
One other thing that catches people,perhaps not relevant to property mainly, is absentee bidding!
Some auction houses (its usually in the T&C's ) treat what you intend as a BID , as an OFFER. Therefore you get people , winning their lot(s) on their top bid...(and often wondering why!)
Its crucial therefore , when forwarding bids to an auction house new to you,that what you propose to pay up to ,IS a BID and is in NO way an offer.
Once the item, has met that reserve, then it is illegal for the vendor (or his agent(s) ) to bid on his own item , as the item is then for sale.
Another little known law, is that the auctioneers estimate cannot (or legally shouldn't be) be lower than any reserve set. Interesting to watch estimates against bidding patterns....
One other thing that catches people,perhaps not relevant to property mainly, is absentee bidding!
Some auction houses (its usually in the T&C's ) treat what you intend as a BID , as an OFFER. Therefore you get people , winning their lot(s) on their top bid...(and often wondering why!)
Its crucial therefore , when forwarding bids to an auction house new to you,that what you propose to pay up to ,IS a BID and is in NO way an offer.
Tangent Police said:
This is standard auction house practice, in the same way getting your auntie to bid against the winner is on ebay.
Chap was convicted last week for shill bidding on ebay, presumably property auctions are exempt? (Also he was a trader, I assume it doesn't apply to personal listings)http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8632357.stm
Trommel said:
Whilst I'm sure it's common practise, most of the London property auctions are amateurish enough to make me think they'd mess it up.
If you really like bidding against yourself, buy livestock at auction ...
If you think property auctions are devious, don't ever go near places like Blackbushe! The most pikey infested, auction rats I've ever come across by a long way.If you really like bidding against yourself, buy livestock at auction ...
I would be surprised though if any auction houses were getting their own staff to bid up properties - even if was legal, it would be pretty obvious to any regular auction goers and I'm sure the rest of us would have heard of this practise.
Edited by PistonReg on Tuesday 11th May 15:02
hidetheelephants said:
champ54321 said:
Its perfectly legal, the auction house wants to sell the property. They are allowed to take bids off the wall up until they reach the reserve but no further. Its not like the auctioneer is ripping the bidder off, the bidder should know what the maximum is they are willing pay and not go over it. If they didn't take bids off the wall the buyer may not have a chance to buy a property unless the seller is willing to take an offer after the auction, which many are not as a lot of properties are put in auction as it is the best way to demonstrate for legal purposes that a property has reached a market value.
Am I being thick, or is that contradictory? Or at least contrary? Can someone explain this because my logic circuits just fused. 
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