The real size of UK debt
Discussion
Did anyone else listen to Radio 4 on the way home this evening?
Apparently the UK debt figure generally banded about doesn't include PFI agreements or public sector pensions.
Each household in Britain owes £90,000 once this is taken into account...
Hopefully someone who wasn't driving the A31 with the roof down
will have got all the details of the discussion!
Apparently the UK debt figure generally banded about doesn't include PFI agreements or public sector pensions.
Each household in Britain owes £90,000 once this is taken into account...
Hopefully someone who wasn't driving the A31 with the roof down
will have got all the details of the discussion!That is about but the BBC forgot the clawback on the PFI projects, the Merchant Banks hav to make returns as well, so the figure is about £75,000 in real terms per household if you run full term liabilities.
There is also [sadly] an add on that makes the figure worse.
The PFI terms will start to run out from 2015... slowly incrementally hospitals, schools, even the odd council building will face further tranches of payments or eviction, so it will be in about 2020 when there WILL be hospitals facing this and we will have to pay for the PFI all over again, an ever on-going £15k of debt on every household for the rest of time... the banks eh!
Have been screaming blue murder over this for the past 10 years, Private Eye has even published some of them.
Every time ol'flubber-chops speaks of all the schools and hospitals 'he' has built I shudder, he directly changed PFI in 1998 to make the whole process risk proof for the bankers... and boy-oh-boy don't they know it.
There is also [sadly] an add on that makes the figure worse.
The PFI terms will start to run out from 2015... slowly incrementally hospitals, schools, even the odd council building will face further tranches of payments or eviction, so it will be in about 2020 when there WILL be hospitals facing this and we will have to pay for the PFI all over again, an ever on-going £15k of debt on every household for the rest of time... the banks eh!
Have been screaming blue murder over this for the past 10 years, Private Eye has even published some of them.
Every time ol'flubber-chops speaks of all the schools and hospitals 'he' has built I shudder, he directly changed PFI in 1998 to make the whole process risk proof for the bankers... and boy-oh-boy don't they know it.
fbrs said:
Now you know why there are so many Quangos, the majority of the Health and Education trusts are not even recorded in those figures!Quangos cost us money in so so many ways.
Political Pain said:
That is about but the BBC forgot the clawback on the PFI projects, the Merchant Banks hav to make returns as well, so the figure is about £75,000 in real terms per household if you run full term liabilities.
There is also [sadly] an add on that makes the figure worse.
The PFI terms will start to run out from 2015... slowly incrementally hospitals, schools, even the odd council building will face further tranches of payments or eviction, so it will be in about 2020 when there WILL be hospitals facing this and we will have to pay for the PFI all over again, an ever on-going £15k of debt on every household for the rest of time... the banks eh!
Have been screaming blue murder over this for the past 10 years, Private Eye has even published some of them.
Every time ol'flubber-chops speaks of all the schools and hospitals 'he' has built I shudder, he directly changed PFI in 1998 to make the whole process risk proof for the bankers... and boy-oh-boy don't they know it.
I agree with your last point, but you're mistaken if you think all the capital assets created by PFI schemes revert to private ownership at the end of the concession period. Depends on the format of the scheme. Of course, those that do pass into public sector ownership will then have to be operated and maintained somehow...There is also [sadly] an add on that makes the figure worse.
The PFI terms will start to run out from 2015... slowly incrementally hospitals, schools, even the odd council building will face further tranches of payments or eviction, so it will be in about 2020 when there WILL be hospitals facing this and we will have to pay for the PFI all over again, an ever on-going £15k of debt on every household for the rest of time... the banks eh!
Have been screaming blue murder over this for the past 10 years, Private Eye has even published some of them.
Every time ol'flubber-chops speaks of all the schools and hospitals 'he' has built I shudder, he directly changed PFI in 1998 to make the whole process risk proof for the bankers... and boy-oh-boy don't they know it.
I don't think a lot of people even really understand the difference between the 'debt' and the 'deficit'
Labours plan to half the deficit only means they are going to cut what they borrow each year to make up for the short fall in what they spend and what they get in tax revenue.
In other words the the already massive debt will still continue to get bigger.
Labours plan to half the deficit only means they are going to cut what they borrow each year to make up for the short fall in what they spend and what they get in tax revenue.
In other words the the already massive debt will still continue to get bigger.
The beauty is in the wording, the land always returns to owner [state,county,authority] but the building is designed for a period economic use, and designed as such and in every project I was involved in [approx £1bn] the contued use re-fit clause is there for term end minus 18months.
Political Pain said:
That is about but the BBC forgot the clawback on the PFI projects, the Merchant Banks hav to make returns as well, so the figure is about £75,000 in real terms per household if you run full term liabilities.
There is also [sadly] an add on that makes the figure worse.
The PFI terms will start to run out from 2015... slowly incrementally hospitals, schools, even the odd council building will face further tranches of payments or eviction, so it will be in about 2020 when there WILL be hospitals facing this and we will have to pay for the PFI all over again, an ever on-going £15k of debt on every household for the rest of time... the banks eh!
Have been screaming blue murder over this for the past 10 years, Private Eye has even published some of them.
Every time ol'flubber-chops speaks of all the schools and hospitals 'he' has built I shudder, he directly changed PFI in 1998 to make the whole process risk proof for the bankers... and boy-oh-boy don't they know it.
They did specifically mention PFI. About 50 minutes into PM on Radio 4 today. £300bn I think.There is also [sadly] an add on that makes the figure worse.
The PFI terms will start to run out from 2015... slowly incrementally hospitals, schools, even the odd council building will face further tranches of payments or eviction, so it will be in about 2020 when there WILL be hospitals facing this and we will have to pay for the PFI all over again, an ever on-going £15k of debt on every household for the rest of time... the banks eh!
Have been screaming blue murder over this for the past 10 years, Private Eye has even published some of them.
Every time ol'flubber-chops speaks of all the schools and hospitals 'he' has built I shudder, he directly changed PFI in 1998 to make the whole process risk proof for the bankers... and boy-oh-boy don't they know it.
Scooby72 said:
I don't think a lot of people even really understand the difference between the 'debt' and the 'deficit'
Labours plan to half the deficit...
I think that's a key point and this deficit cutting policy just seems misleading the way Gordon is so proud of it, he should be ashamed we have one!Labours plan to half the deficit...
cs02rm0 said:
Scooby72 said:
I don't think a lot of people even really understand the difference between the 'debt' and the 'deficit'
Labours plan to half the deficit...
I think that's a key point and this deficit cutting policy just seems misleading the way Gordon is so proud of it, he should be ashamed we have one!Labours plan to half the deficit...
hole important 
Busa_Rush said:
I used to work for a company involved in the PFI business . . . they loved it, exceptionally good business, they dropped everything else for PFI's !
It is a fabulous business to be in, the fees are lucrative, the salaries are marvellous, the perks are abundant and the profits are assured.The client loves you, the builder is assured of work and you can usually you can rope them in for a small cream through minor partnerships and the bankers are cock-a-hoop.
Everyone wins...
Except the tax/rate/council tax payer.
But he is the last person to know, by then it's waaaaaayyyyy too late.
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