What is the most collectable C3?
Discussion
,and it is meant to be the original ZR1 and only a few were made.Here's the figures from the Corvette Black Book, Cliff:
ZR1 option debuted in 1970 consisting of LT1 350 engine, M22 manual trans, HD power brakes, transistor ignition, aluminium radiator, + special springs, shocks and front & rear stabiliser bars. Also had metal fan shrouds.
Option cost in 1970 was $968.95 on a base Corvette price of $5192.
Numbers sold:
1970 ZR1: 25
1971 ZR1: 8
1972 ZR1: 20
Also a ZR2 for 1971 with special LS6 454 425 HP engine (only 12 made - 1971 was the only year too).
You think those were rare? How about the ZL1 option for 1969 (my favourite Corvette year ever) with only 2 made. I think 1 is believed to survive.
The ZL1 was a special aluminium block L88. Option cost was $4718.35 on a base Corvette price of $4781.00
Put another way the ZL1 option made the Corvette cost the same as "2 Corvettes" and coincidentally so did the ZR1 option available from 1990. History (almost) repeats itself...
ZR1 option debuted in 1970 consisting of LT1 350 engine, M22 manual trans, HD power brakes, transistor ignition, aluminium radiator, + special springs, shocks and front & rear stabiliser bars. Also had metal fan shrouds.
Option cost in 1970 was $968.95 on a base Corvette price of $5192.
Numbers sold:
1970 ZR1: 25
1971 ZR1: 8
1972 ZR1: 20
Also a ZR2 for 1971 with special LS6 454 425 HP engine (only 12 made - 1971 was the only year too).
You think those were rare? How about the ZL1 option for 1969 (my favourite Corvette year ever) with only 2 made. I think 1 is believed to survive.
The ZL1 was a special aluminium block L88. Option cost was $4718.35 on a base Corvette price of $4781.00
Put another way the ZL1 option made the Corvette cost the same as "2 Corvettes" and coincidentally so did the ZR1 option available from 1990. History (almost) repeats itself...
Ah yes ... the Zl-1. There are times when a car's legend is out of all proportion to its impact on the marketplace. So it is with the 1969 ZL-1-equipped Chevrolet Corvette. Over the years the ZL-1 has taken on mythic proportions as a vehicle and as an objet d'art. One recent retrospective on the car claimed that it had a top speed of 200 miles per hour. Another suggests that it could sprint through the quarter mile in just 10 seconds. And though there is a temptation to foster the legend by repeating statistics as fact, the fact is that, while the ZL-1 Corvette was a formidable street performance car, it was incapable of achieving either of those numbers. Damn few street cars of any era are.
Perhaps the biggest reason that the Corvette ZL-1 has gained these mythic proportions is its sheer inaccessibility. By most accounts only two -- yes, two -- Corvettes with the ZL-1 engine were ever sold to the general public, and their history is tangled and cloudy. So while many have seen and actually driven a 1957 "fuelie" or a '68 L88, real tests of box stock ZL-1-equipped Corvettes are scarcer than the teeth of a rooster. Thus, in the absence of actual knowledge, legend has grown.
It is not surprising that there is a dearth of certifiable information about street versions of the ZL-1 (note, by the way that ZL-1 is the engine option designation, not the car's sub-model or trim level name, but we are using it for simplicity's sake to identify the car.) After all, they weren't built for the street. Instead, the exotic all-alloy ZL-1 big-block engine was intended strictly for racing. In an effort to enforce this edict, ZL-1-equipped Corvettes were not equipped with a heater or defroster. But the bigger deterrent to purchase by non-racing civilians was the price. The ZL-1 engine itself carried a $3,000 price tag (that's in 1969 dollars) and with the other extras that a check the ZL-1 option box required, the total package ran over $6,000 more than a standard-issue base Corvette. In total, the list price was well over $10,000, and while that seems a steal today, the fact was virtually nobody wanted to spring for that kind of money for a Corvette -- or pretty much any other sports car in that day and age.
One factor that inhibited purchase of the ZL-1 even among the super-performance set was the availability of the somewhat less exotic and certainly less costly L88 engine option. The L88 was a high-performance 427 cast-iron big block Mark IV with aluminum heads, a "wild" cam and newfangled "transistorized" ignition. The result of this technical wizardry was an engine that produced what Chevrolet claimed as 435 gross horsepower and others continue to claim was something more like 500.
Since the L88 package, which also included the F41 heavy-duty suspension, Muncie M22 four-speed transmission, limited-slip Posi-Traction rear end and beefed-up brakes, was priced at a much more reasonable $1,100, it is not hard to figure out why so few opted for the ZL-1, which, on paper, offered the same 435 horsepower. Fact is, not too many of the some 30,000 buyers of '69 Corvettes went for the L88 either. Just 116 rolled off the showroom floors onto the street.
But while the L88s are totally cool, the ZL-1 is it. Though it was rated at the same horsepower figure as the L88 and bore a strong resemblance to it in design, the ZL-1 was different in more ways than just the substitution of the aluminum-alloy block material. The most significant difference was in the camshaft. The ZL-1's cam was higher-lift and offered different duration than the equally exotic cam of the L88. Other obvious racing-dictated changes were capability to fit a dry-sump oil system and optional gear drive for the camshaft. In the interest of durability, the bearing journal web areas were strengthened, external web braces were designed in and extra bolt pads fitted under the intake manifold to allow for extra head bolts. The engine also used iron cylinder sleeves within its aluminum block.
Atop the manifold was a big Holley 850 "double pumper" that poured high-test fuel into mammoth cylinders whose combustion chamber design resulted in an ungodly 12.5:1 compression ration. Though it was tagged with the same horsepower number as the L88, it is not hard to imagine that actual horsepower at the peak was at least 25-35 horsepower higher.
Of course, the topper was the fact that the ZL-1 engine weighed in at 100 pounds less than the cast-iron L88. In fact, it also weighed a few pounds less than the small-block Corvette engine that had recently been upgraded to 350 cubic inches. At a curb weight of slightly less than 3,100 pounds, the ZL-1-equipped Corvettes were more balanced packages than the nose-heavy cast-iron big blocks.
While the engine was all new and, with the exception of its overhead-valve rather than overhead cam design, pretty much state of the art, the ZL-1 resided in a largely warmed-over chassis that hadn't changed markedly from the major makeover it had undergone for 1963. Though beginning in 1968 it was clothed in a new fiberglass body, the chassis was only mildly tweaked from the days of the split-window. It had a wheelbase of 98 inches, and it used five cross members to gain stiffness. The front suspension featured unequal-length upper and lower arms with coil springs over tubular shocks. At the rear was a piece of Zora Arkus-Duntov's genius at working within the GM system to build an exotic sports car.
To gain the benefits of independent rear suspension in a cost-conscious manner, Corvette engineers mounted the differential to the frame and ran half-shafts to each wheel using universal joints at each end. Control arms extending from the case to the hub carriers and aft-mounted radius rods located the wheels, while tubular shock absorbers took care of damping. The cleverest part of the design was the use of a leaf spring fitted transversely from the differential and extending to each wheel. Not only was the design reasonably inexpensive to produce, it was also light and reduced the Corvette's unsprung weight considerably. While some guessed that the '68 or '69 Corvettes would boast an entirely new, mid-engine design ala the Lamborghini Miura, instead, Arkus-Duntov and the GM accountants decided to stick with the tried-and-true.
So while many Chevrolet fans pined for the mid-engined "Corvette prototypes" they saw on the covers of Motor Trend, instead they got a more conventional car that was still within the price range of the average American. And with the ZL-1 option that sports car could still win races against the more exotic foreign brands, as John Greenwood and minstrel Dick Smothers did at Sebring in 1971. That, and near invisibility have been enough to create an automotive legend.
Perhaps the biggest reason that the Corvette ZL-1 has gained these mythic proportions is its sheer inaccessibility. By most accounts only two -- yes, two -- Corvettes with the ZL-1 engine were ever sold to the general public, and their history is tangled and cloudy. So while many have seen and actually driven a 1957 "fuelie" or a '68 L88, real tests of box stock ZL-1-equipped Corvettes are scarcer than the teeth of a rooster. Thus, in the absence of actual knowledge, legend has grown.
It is not surprising that there is a dearth of certifiable information about street versions of the ZL-1 (note, by the way that ZL-1 is the engine option designation, not the car's sub-model or trim level name, but we are using it for simplicity's sake to identify the car.) After all, they weren't built for the street. Instead, the exotic all-alloy ZL-1 big-block engine was intended strictly for racing. In an effort to enforce this edict, ZL-1-equipped Corvettes were not equipped with a heater or defroster. But the bigger deterrent to purchase by non-racing civilians was the price. The ZL-1 engine itself carried a $3,000 price tag (that's in 1969 dollars) and with the other extras that a check the ZL-1 option box required, the total package ran over $6,000 more than a standard-issue base Corvette. In total, the list price was well over $10,000, and while that seems a steal today, the fact was virtually nobody wanted to spring for that kind of money for a Corvette -- or pretty much any other sports car in that day and age.
One factor that inhibited purchase of the ZL-1 even among the super-performance set was the availability of the somewhat less exotic and certainly less costly L88 engine option. The L88 was a high-performance 427 cast-iron big block Mark IV with aluminum heads, a "wild" cam and newfangled "transistorized" ignition. The result of this technical wizardry was an engine that produced what Chevrolet claimed as 435 gross horsepower and others continue to claim was something more like 500.
Since the L88 package, which also included the F41 heavy-duty suspension, Muncie M22 four-speed transmission, limited-slip Posi-Traction rear end and beefed-up brakes, was priced at a much more reasonable $1,100, it is not hard to figure out why so few opted for the ZL-1, which, on paper, offered the same 435 horsepower. Fact is, not too many of the some 30,000 buyers of '69 Corvettes went for the L88 either. Just 116 rolled off the showroom floors onto the street.
But while the L88s are totally cool, the ZL-1 is it. Though it was rated at the same horsepower figure as the L88 and bore a strong resemblance to it in design, the ZL-1 was different in more ways than just the substitution of the aluminum-alloy block material. The most significant difference was in the camshaft. The ZL-1's cam was higher-lift and offered different duration than the equally exotic cam of the L88. Other obvious racing-dictated changes were capability to fit a dry-sump oil system and optional gear drive for the camshaft. In the interest of durability, the bearing journal web areas were strengthened, external web braces were designed in and extra bolt pads fitted under the intake manifold to allow for extra head bolts. The engine also used iron cylinder sleeves within its aluminum block.
Atop the manifold was a big Holley 850 "double pumper" that poured high-test fuel into mammoth cylinders whose combustion chamber design resulted in an ungodly 12.5:1 compression ration. Though it was tagged with the same horsepower number as the L88, it is not hard to imagine that actual horsepower at the peak was at least 25-35 horsepower higher.
Of course, the topper was the fact that the ZL-1 engine weighed in at 100 pounds less than the cast-iron L88. In fact, it also weighed a few pounds less than the small-block Corvette engine that had recently been upgraded to 350 cubic inches. At a curb weight of slightly less than 3,100 pounds, the ZL-1-equipped Corvettes were more balanced packages than the nose-heavy cast-iron big blocks.
While the engine was all new and, with the exception of its overhead-valve rather than overhead cam design, pretty much state of the art, the ZL-1 resided in a largely warmed-over chassis that hadn't changed markedly from the major makeover it had undergone for 1963. Though beginning in 1968 it was clothed in a new fiberglass body, the chassis was only mildly tweaked from the days of the split-window. It had a wheelbase of 98 inches, and it used five cross members to gain stiffness. The front suspension featured unequal-length upper and lower arms with coil springs over tubular shocks. At the rear was a piece of Zora Arkus-Duntov's genius at working within the GM system to build an exotic sports car.
To gain the benefits of independent rear suspension in a cost-conscious manner, Corvette engineers mounted the differential to the frame and ran half-shafts to each wheel using universal joints at each end. Control arms extending from the case to the hub carriers and aft-mounted radius rods located the wheels, while tubular shock absorbers took care of damping. The cleverest part of the design was the use of a leaf spring fitted transversely from the differential and extending to each wheel. Not only was the design reasonably inexpensive to produce, it was also light and reduced the Corvette's unsprung weight considerably. While some guessed that the '68 or '69 Corvettes would boast an entirely new, mid-engine design ala the Lamborghini Miura, instead, Arkus-Duntov and the GM accountants decided to stick with the tried-and-true.
So while many Chevrolet fans pined for the mid-engined "Corvette prototypes" they saw on the covers of Motor Trend, instead they got a more conventional car that was still within the price range of the average American. And with the ZL-1 option that sports car could still win races against the more exotic foreign brands, as John Greenwood and minstrel Dick Smothers did at Sebring in 1971. That, and near invisibility have been enough to create an automotive legend.
The Wiz said:
There are times when a car's legend is out of all proportion to its impact on the marketplace.
Couldn't have summed that up better myself, and so true of so many cars, especially (I hate to say) US musclecars with the confusing Horsepower ratings: some rated as gross / some net / some exaggerrated HP / some under-rated HP(for insurance purposes, they said. Some sold in detuned or restricted form to be modified for racing (ZL1 Corvette & Camaro, Boss 429 Mustang L88).
A lot of disappointing quarter mile times were blamed on tyre techology of the time so I would have thougt someone would stage a shootout with modern tyres and see what these old cars would do with a "perfect" hookup off the line.
Trouble is so many times I've seen "Joe Bloggs brought his 1 of 15 made plum crazy Hemi Cuda convertible, blah, blah, to the strip but it's far too valuable to race so we have to rely on contemporary figures from the time".
Also consider the fact that many musclecars from the 60s to about 73 (last of the true musclecars 73 Trans Am SD455 [no-one seems to mention the 74]) had appalling top speeds due to low rear gears "optimised for the strip" which in turn made the fuel economy even worse (try running at 4000 rpm @ 70 mph with a 427 or 455 under the hood!)
It's easy to see whay there's no real comparison between old and new musclecars: look at a vette now:
0-60 in 4.5 or better (Z06 a lot better!) 175 mph top end, incredible economy & usability plus they have all the comforts like power options and air con.
I do love the old cars though, it's just a fact that "time's change" and memories or stories of old cars that hardly even existed, like the ZL1 become legends...
If it's a ZL1 Camaro it's worth a fortune, if it's a ZL1 Corvette you could probably swap it for Catherine Zeta Jones.
That's how likely it is that he's goy a ZL1 'vette as there's only 1 in existence.
You must stop believing these car dealers, have you seen that guys ads? Jeez he had a rare and desirable special edition 6 cylinder Camaro the other week.
Whatever he's on, I want some!!!
That's how likely it is that he's goy a ZL1 'vette as there's only 1 in existence.
You must stop believing these car dealers, have you seen that guys ads? Jeez he had a rare and desirable special edition 6 cylinder Camaro the other week.
Whatever he's on, I want some!!!
. 
malc350 said:
If it's a ZL1 Camaro it's worth a fortune, if it's a ZL1 Corvette you could probably swap it for Catherine Zeta Jones.
That's how likely it is that he's goy a ZL1 'vette as there's only 1 in existence.
There are two - a yellow and black one which is in a collection in Florida and a white and black one which is in America in a private collection
Among muscle cars, there always were a few that, for whatever reason were a little more rare than others. This list shows the rarest factory built production muscle cars. These are cars that ANY buyer could walk into ANY dealer and conceivably order. One off cars for company executives, dealer modified cars (Yenkos, Baldwin-Motion, etc.) and purpose built race cars (427 Cobras) are not included. Cars are ranked by total built by year, model, body style, and engine. Transmission breakouts are also shown, if known. Further breakdowns (by color, options, accessory) are either impossible to get or impractical. Note that by their nature, Hemi Convertibles are widely represented on this list. Convertibles represented everything that the typical muscle car buyer didn't want - a higher price, more weight, and generally lower top speed. Add to that the high performance (and high price tag) for the Hemi engine, and it is no surprise that Hemi Convertibles are the most rare of all muscle cars. In fact, throughout the Hemi era (1966-1971), Chrysler built 8,420,000 cars, yet only 179 of them (1 out of every 47,000) were Hemi convertibles. Truly, as a group, these were the most rare of the rare.
RAREST MUSCLECARS
# YEAR/MODEL BODY STYLE ENGINE TOTAL MT AUTO
1 1967 Dodge Coronet R/T Convertible 426 Hemi 2 1 1
1 1970 Dodge Coronet R/T Convertible 426 Hemi 2 ? ?
3 1969 Chevrolet Corvette ZL-1 427 2D Coupe ZL-1 427 V8 2 ? ?
3 1970 Plymouth Road Runner Convertible 426 Hemi 3 1 2
5 1970 Dodge Super Bee 2D Pillared Coupe 426 Hemi 4 4 0
6 1966 Dodge Coronet 400 Convertible 426 Hemi 6 ? ?
7 1971 Plymouth 'Cuda Hemi Covertible Convertible 426 Hemi 7 5 2
8 1969 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Convertible 400 RA IV 8 4 4
9 1968 Dodge Coronet Convertible 426 Hemi 9 1 8
10 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 426 Hemi Convertible Convertible 426 Hemi 9 5 4
11 1966 Plymouth Belvedere II Convertible 426 Hemi 10 4 6
11 1969 Dodge Coronet Convertible 426 Hemi 10 4 6
11 1969 Plymouth Road Runner Convertible 426 Hemi 10 4 6
14 1969 Plymouth GTX Convertible 426 Hemi 11 5 6
15 1970 Dodge Coronet 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 13 4 9
16 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda Convertible 426 Hemi 14 6 8
17 1967 Plymouth Belvedere GTX Convertible 426 Hemi 17 7 10
17 1971 Pontiac GTO Judge Convertible 455 17 ? ?
19 1967 Chevrolet Corvette L88 Coupe & Convertible 427 L88 V8 20 ? ?
19 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 LS6 Convertible 454 LS6 V8 20 ? ?
21 1966 Dodge Coronet Convertible 426 Hemi 21 12 9
22 1971 Dodge Super Bee 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 22 9 13
23 1966 Plymouth Satellite Convertible 426 Hemi 27 ? ?
24 1971 Plymouth GTX 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 30 ? ?
25 1970 Dodge Super Bee 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 32 21 11
26 1966 Dodge Coronet 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 34 11 23
27 1968 Plymouth GTX Convertible 426 Hemi 36 ? ?
28 1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 49 31 18
29 1964 Dodge Ramcharger Superstock 426 2D Sedan 426 Hemi 50 ? ?
30 1969 AMC AMX SS 2D Coupe 390 V8 52 ? ?
31 1966 Oldsmobile 442 W-30 2D Sedan 400 V8 W-30 54 ? ?
32 1967 Dodge Coronet SS/B 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 55 ? ?
32 1967 Plymouth Belvedere II (RO23) 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 55 ? ?
32 1971 Plymouth Road Runner 426 Hemi 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 55 28 27
35 1968 1/2 Ford Mustang GT Super Cobra Jet 428 Ram Air 2D Fastback, Notchback & Convertible 428 Cobra Jet Ram Air V8 Fewer than 60 ? ?
36 1966 Ford 427 Fairlane Various 427 V8 60 ? ?
37 1965 Plymouth Belvedere I 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 63 ? ?
37 1971 Dodge Charger R/T 426 Hemi 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 63 30 33
39 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 427 2D Hardtop ZL-1 427 V8 69 47 22
40 1971 Dodge Challenger R/T 426 Hemi 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 71 59 12
41 1974 Plymouth GTX 440 Coupe 440 V8 79 ? ?
42 1968 Chevrolet Corvette L-88 Roadster Convertible 427 V8 80 ? ?
43 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Coupe & Convertible 400 RA IV 88 ? ?
These are the fastest muscle cars of all time, as ranked by Muscle Car Review Magazine, the source on muscle cars. This ranking was developed by comparing muscle cars as measured by different, respected sources, which were then ranked by their respective quarter mile elapsed times.
1 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65
2 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65
3 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69
4 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69
5 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
6 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69
7 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68
8 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
9 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
10 1968 Corvette 427 13.41@109.5 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68
11 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67
12 1970 Plymouth Superbird 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 ? ? ?
14 1968 Road Runner 13.54@105.1 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69
15 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
16 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
17 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
18 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
19 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
20 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
21 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68
22 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64
23 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
24 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
25 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
26 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
27 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71
28 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
29 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
30 1970 Hemi 'Cuda 13.78@101.2 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69
31 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68
32 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67
33 1965 Catalina 13.80@106 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65
34 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80@104.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69
35 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71
36 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66
37 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69
38 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
39 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
40 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
41 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet 13.88@101.7 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69
42 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
43 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62
44 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
45 1962 Catalina 13.90@107 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62
46 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
47 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
48 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70
49 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99@101 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70
RAREST MUSCLECARS
# YEAR/MODEL BODY STYLE ENGINE TOTAL MT AUTO
1 1967 Dodge Coronet R/T Convertible 426 Hemi 2 1 1
1 1970 Dodge Coronet R/T Convertible 426 Hemi 2 ? ?
3 1969 Chevrolet Corvette ZL-1 427 2D Coupe ZL-1 427 V8 2 ? ?
3 1970 Plymouth Road Runner Convertible 426 Hemi 3 1 2
5 1970 Dodge Super Bee 2D Pillared Coupe 426 Hemi 4 4 0
6 1966 Dodge Coronet 400 Convertible 426 Hemi 6 ? ?
7 1971 Plymouth 'Cuda Hemi Covertible Convertible 426 Hemi 7 5 2
8 1969 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Convertible 400 RA IV 8 4 4
9 1968 Dodge Coronet Convertible 426 Hemi 9 1 8
10 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 426 Hemi Convertible Convertible 426 Hemi 9 5 4
11 1966 Plymouth Belvedere II Convertible 426 Hemi 10 4 6
11 1969 Dodge Coronet Convertible 426 Hemi 10 4 6
11 1969 Plymouth Road Runner Convertible 426 Hemi 10 4 6
14 1969 Plymouth GTX Convertible 426 Hemi 11 5 6
15 1970 Dodge Coronet 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 13 4 9
16 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda Convertible 426 Hemi 14 6 8
17 1967 Plymouth Belvedere GTX Convertible 426 Hemi 17 7 10
17 1971 Pontiac GTO Judge Convertible 455 17 ? ?
19 1967 Chevrolet Corvette L88 Coupe & Convertible 427 L88 V8 20 ? ?
19 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 LS6 Convertible 454 LS6 V8 20 ? ?
21 1966 Dodge Coronet Convertible 426 Hemi 21 12 9
22 1971 Dodge Super Bee 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 22 9 13
23 1966 Plymouth Satellite Convertible 426 Hemi 27 ? ?
24 1971 Plymouth GTX 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 30 ? ?
25 1970 Dodge Super Bee 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 32 21 11
26 1966 Dodge Coronet 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 34 11 23
27 1968 Plymouth GTX Convertible 426 Hemi 36 ? ?
28 1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 49 31 18
29 1964 Dodge Ramcharger Superstock 426 2D Sedan 426 Hemi 50 ? ?
30 1969 AMC AMX SS 2D Coupe 390 V8 52 ? ?
31 1966 Oldsmobile 442 W-30 2D Sedan 400 V8 W-30 54 ? ?
32 1967 Dodge Coronet SS/B 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 55 ? ?
32 1967 Plymouth Belvedere II (RO23) 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 55 ? ?
32 1971 Plymouth Road Runner 426 Hemi 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 55 28 27
35 1968 1/2 Ford Mustang GT Super Cobra Jet 428 Ram Air 2D Fastback, Notchback & Convertible 428 Cobra Jet Ram Air V8 Fewer than 60 ? ?
36 1966 Ford 427 Fairlane Various 427 V8 60 ? ?
37 1965 Plymouth Belvedere I 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 63 ? ?
37 1971 Dodge Charger R/T 426 Hemi 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 63 30 33
39 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 427 2D Hardtop ZL-1 427 V8 69 47 22
40 1971 Dodge Challenger R/T 426 Hemi 2D Hardtop 426 Hemi 71 59 12
41 1974 Plymouth GTX 440 Coupe 440 V8 79 ? ?
42 1968 Chevrolet Corvette L-88 Roadster Convertible 427 V8 80 ? ?
43 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Coupe & Convertible 400 RA IV 88 ? ?
These are the fastest muscle cars of all time, as ranked by Muscle Car Review Magazine, the source on muscle cars. This ranking was developed by comparing muscle cars as measured by different, respected sources, which were then ranked by their respective quarter mile elapsed times.
1 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65
2 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65
3 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69
4 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69
5 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
6 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69
7 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68
8 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
9 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
10 1968 Corvette 427 13.41@109.5 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68
11 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67
12 1970 Plymouth Superbird 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 ? ? ?
14 1968 Road Runner 13.54@105.1 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69
15 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
16 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
17 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
18 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
19 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
20 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
21 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68
22 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64
23 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
24 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
25 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
26 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
27 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71
28 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
29 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
30 1970 Hemi 'Cuda 13.78@101.2 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69
31 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68
32 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67
33 1965 Catalina 13.80@106 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65
34 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80@104.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69
35 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71
36 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66
37 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69
38 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
39 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
40 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
41 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet 13.88@101.7 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69
42 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
43 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62
44 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
45 1962 Catalina 13.90@107 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62
46 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
47 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
48 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70
49 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99@101 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70
Actually Wiz's figures for musclecar production underline what I've always said when someone has just casually applied that label to "any old yankee car with a big engine", e.g. when they have a 1976 Camaro with a 180 HP 350 for sale.
Look at the production figures - there just aren't that many REAL musclecars!!!
Another thing: The start of the musclecar era seems to be open to debate, Tri Chevy's? Pontiac GTO, but the end seems generally agreed as when the last Trans Am SD455 rolled off the line (1974, mind you look at what else was around in 1974 - mainly fake musclecars with loads of "go-faster" stickers", only the SD455 kept the dream alive).
As for modern musclecars...exciting times arrived again in the mid 80's after a ridiculous period of overweight, underpowered cars that wheezed their way through the quarter miles due to strict emission standards.
Once the US engineers figured out how to make power again (cleaner, with cats in place) cars started to get FAST again:
Vettes with 0-60 times under 6 seconds + top speed over 150, Buick GN, GM F-bodies, Mustang 5.0. And what about the ZR1 (1990-95)? More overall performance that any musclecar, modern or otherwise, with fuel economy and usability that old cars could never dream of.
Might be able to squeeze the Callaway in there somewhere...!
Look at the production figures - there just aren't that many REAL musclecars!!!
Another thing: The start of the musclecar era seems to be open to debate, Tri Chevy's? Pontiac GTO, but the end seems generally agreed as when the last Trans Am SD455 rolled off the line (1974, mind you look at what else was around in 1974 - mainly fake musclecars with loads of "go-faster" stickers", only the SD455 kept the dream alive).
As for modern musclecars...exciting times arrived again in the mid 80's after a ridiculous period of overweight, underpowered cars that wheezed their way through the quarter miles due to strict emission standards.
Once the US engineers figured out how to make power again (cleaner, with cats in place) cars started to get FAST again:
Vettes with 0-60 times under 6 seconds + top speed over 150, Buick GN, GM F-bodies, Mustang 5.0. And what about the ZR1 (1990-95)? More overall performance that any musclecar, modern or otherwise, with fuel economy and usability that old cars could never dream of.
Might be able to squeeze the Callaway in there somewhere...!
Quote; Once the US engineers figured out how to make power again (cleaner, with cats in place) cars started to get FAST again: Vettes with 0-60 times under 6 seconds + top speed over 150, Buick GN, GM F-bodies, Mustang 5.0. And what about the ZR1 (1990-95)? More overall performance that any musclecar, modern or otherwise, with fuel economy and usability that old cars could never dream of. Quote-
There were around 44 British engineers in there somewhere as well...............!!!
There were around 44 British engineers in there somewhere as well...............!!!
malc350 said:
Actually Wiz's figures for musclecar production underline what I've always said when someone has just casually applied that label to "any old yankee car with a big engine!
Perhaps the most common question people have is what exactly is a muscle car. The term wasn't even used until the late 1970s, in the 1960s there were often called "Super Cars" if called anything at all. Therefore, the actual definition of a muscle car, or which models were muscle cars, is a topic that is often disputed. Here is the general interpretation of what is a muscle car and what cars qualify, and which don't.
AMC AMX Yes Pony Car Even though it only has two seats, because it is based on the Javelin, it is a muscle car
AMC Javelin No Pony Car Only the AMX variation or big block V8s are considered muscle cars
Buick GS Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Based on Buick Skylark
Buick Riviera No Personal Luxury Car Too expensive and big
Buick Skylark (non-GS) No Intermediate Car Only GS versions are considered muscle cars
Buick Wildcat No Fullsize Car Too large
Chevrolet Camaro Yes Pony car Only SS and Z28 models are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle SS Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle (non-SS) No Intermediate Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Corvette No Sports Car The two seats, fiberglass body, and high price make it a sports car.
Chevrolet Impala SS Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Monte Carlo No Personal Luxury Too expensive
Chevrolet Nova Yes Compact Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chrysler 300 Letter Cars No Personal Luxury Way too expensive and luxurious
Dodge Challenger Yes Pony Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Charger Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Coronet Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Dart Yes Compact Only Darts with 383 or 440 engines are considered muscle cars
Dodge Daytona Yes Specialty Muscle Cars -
Dodge Super Bee Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Ford Fairlane / Torino GT/Cobra Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only GT and Cobra models are considered muscle cars
Ford Galaxie Yes Fullsize muscle Only Galaxies with 390 engines or larger are considered muscle cars
Ford Mustang Yes Pony Car GTs, Mach 1's and Boss Mustangs are considered muscle cars
Mercury Comet / Cyclone Yes Intermediate Only GTs and Cyclones are considered muscle cars
Mercury Cougar Yes Pony Car Only GTs, Eliminators, and Boss engine models are considered muscle cars
Oldsmobile 442 Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Oldsmobile Cutlass No Intermediate Only 442 models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth Barracuda No Pony car Only 'Cuda models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth 'Cuda Yes Pony car 'Cudas with 340s are generally not considered muscle cars
Plymouth Duster Yes Compact Muscle Car Only Dusters with 340s are considered muscle cars
Plymouth GTX Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Plymouth Road Runner Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Plymouth Superbird Yes Specialty Muscle Car -
Pontiac Catalina 2+2 Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only Catalinas with 400+ cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Firebird Yes Pony Car Only Firebirds with 400 cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Grand Prix No Personal Luxury Too expensive
Pontiac GTO Yes Intermediate Muscle Car The first true muscle car
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Fullsize Muscle Car:
The strict definition only includes intermediate size vehicles. In reality, performance oriented intermediate size vehicles didn't appear until 1964. Before then, manufacturers took existing fullsize vehicles and added extra performance to them. Because of this, the early fullsize performance vehicles are generally considered muscle cars.
Examples: Chevrolet Impala (SS only), Ford Galaxie (with 390 + cid engines only), Dodge Coronet (R/Ts only), etc.
Pony Cars and Compact Cars:
In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.
Examples: Chevrolet Camaro (SS and Z28 models only), Ford Mustang (GTs and Boss only), Plymouth 'Cudas (no Barracudas), AMC Javelin, etc.
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Two Seat Sports Cars:
Two seat sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird are not considered muscle cars due to their high price and specialty nature. The only exception is the AMC AMX as it was relatively cheap, and was based on the AMC Javelin pony car.
Examples: AMC AMX, etc.
>> Edited by The Wiz on Tuesday 2nd March 15:23
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