Advice reference RYA courses, small cruiser recommendation

[Tsippy]

Hi!

I am quite new to the forums so hope this has not been covered before (search brought little up).


Having sailed a couple of times plus powerboating, I am quite interested in completing some RYA sail courses in the Hampshire region (preferably near to Gosport / Fareham) before looking to purchase a small sail-cruiser in perhaps 3-4 months time having (hopefully) completed up to the Day Skipper courses.

So the questions are

1) Can any of you recommend a good RYA site in Gosport/Fareham or nearby? As with driving lessons, I imagine there is a mix of good and bad instructors so a recommendation would be appreciated.

2) For the short term, we'd like a small sail-cruiser that can provide overnight accomodation for at least the two of us (so a single doubleberth would be fine), galley and head. I had spoke to someone a few years back with a Trapper (500?) and that would have been an ideal size, so anything similar spec to that would be fine with a budget of up to £8k.Also, are different boats suitable for different abilities? e.g one better for beginners, one better for those with lots of experience etc

3) With regards to the above boat, what limitations would a small cruiser have ? ie would it be possible to do a crossing from say Portsmouth -> Channel Islands? Long term we'd ideally like to perhaps sail to France (after a bit more sea-experience) and traverse the canals in Brittany so if we could get a boat able to do that from the start, it'd be a bonus!

Thanks and hope the above is clear :-)

[Rum Runner]

Tsippy said:

Hi!

I am quite new to the forums so hope this has not been covered before (search brought little up).


Having sailed a couple of times plus powerboating, I am quite interested in completing some RYA sail courses in the Hampshire region (preferably near to Gosport / Fareham) before looking to purchase a small sail-cruiser in perhaps 3-4 months time having (hopefully) completed up to the Day Skipper courses.

So the questions are

1) Can any of you recommend a good RYA site in Gosport/Fareham or nearby? As with driving lessons, I imagine there is a mix of good and bad instructors so a recommendation would be appreciated.

2) For the short term, we'd like a small sail-cruiser that can provide overnight accomodation for at least the two of us (so a single doubleberth would be fine), galley and head. I had spoke to someone a few years back with a Trapper (500?) and that would have been an ideal size, so anything similar spec to that would be fine with a budget of up to £8k.Also, are different boats suitable for different abilities? e.g one better for beginners, one better for those with lots of experience etc

3) With regards to the above boat, what limitations would a small cruiser have ? ie would it be possible to do a crossing from say Portsmouth -> Channel Islands? Long term we'd ideally like to perhaps sail to France (after a bit more sea-experience) and traverse the canals in Brittany so if we could get a boat able to do that from the start, it'd be a bonus!

Thanks and hope the above is clear :-)

You need to think about what type of keel configuration suits your needs, bilge , fin etc. All depends where you are going to keep it and where you want to go.

[Huntsman]

So many questions and things to consider.

I've crossed the channel many times in an Impala 28, they cab be had to 10 or 15k and more than capable.

I'd say fin keel, they sail better, inboard single lung diesel (that's the only time on PH I'll suggest a diesel) and a sea toilet.

Avoid outboards in a well and porta loos.

Log onto the YBW.com forum, that will prove very informative.

[Tsippy]

Cheers for the responses. It'd probably be dry stored apart from when we use it (is it realistic to get these on a trailer? I noticed some trailer-sailers of a similar size).

As for use, primarily it'd be for coastal sailing plus the odd channel crossing and if possible, utilising the canal system in Brittany although that's not really a priority.

Thanks :-)

[Fittster]

Huntsman said:

I'd say fin keel, they sail better, inboard single lung diesel (that's the only time on PH I'll suggest a diesel) and a sea toilet.

How deep a keel can you get away with in the French Canal system?

[XJSJohn]

Fittster said:

Huntsman said:

I'd say fin keel, they sail better, inboard single lung diesel (that's the only time on PH I'll suggest a diesel) and a sea toilet.

How deep a keel can you get away with in the French Canal system?

I have seen 40ft Benetau type's going through the Midi.

Personally i have taken boats with 2 meters draft through. the Air Draft is usually the bigger issue.

Ohh and Huntsman ...... Quoted for posterity and use completely out of context on a future thread

[Jaguar steve]

Fittster said:

Huntsman said:

I'd say fin keel, they sail better, inboard single lung diesel (that's the only time on PH I'll suggest a diesel) and a sea toilet.

How deep a keel can you get away with in the French Canal system?

You'll need to consider insurance limitations for a channel crossing too - most companies I contacted with the same question wouldn't cover any boat less than 7m and not fitted with an inboard desiel. Anything that size or above gets awkward for trailer sailing, and if you're considering the French canals you'll need to consider air and keel draught as well as WTF you do with the mast. Living on a boat with a tangle of spars and rigging everywhere is not a lot of fun.

There really is no such thing as the perfect multi purpose boat - if there was everybody would be buying it. You'll need to consider the cost of mooring too - I don't know about the south coast but in the Thames Estuary that'll range from - for a 6m boat like mine - £250 or so for a lay you own swinging, maybe half tide one up to £1750 or more for a serviced berth in a marina. That's a lot of difference over a ten year period, more in fact than the cost of a really nice boat in the first place.

I'd have a good look round marinas and sailing clubs and see what everybody else favours and what they use it for. Choosing a popular boat like a Hunter, Etap, or Jaguar will protect your investment and make it easier to sell if you want to. Some of the larger yachts around here are tide locked in a marina with a drying sill and are used as floating weekend cottages that only sail a couple of times a year, other much smaller ones like mine are on a swinging mooring and somtimes cover 100 miles or more each trip.

If you're sailing single handed and are relatively new to sailing personally I'd avoid anything bigger than 6-7m. A bigger boat is fine when you have a crew and some experience but sail handling and manouvering in confined spaces or coping with marginal weather is really hard work on your own in anything bigger than that.

Why not crew for someone if you can first and see if you can get a feel for what suits you - both in terms of the boat you like and what you really want to use it for. My 6 m bilge keeler (which I chose over a bigger, far more expensive boat) is perfect for me and and a long weekend away in the Thames Estuary, but if I moved sailing area or got more ambitious in terms of distances or time on board with a regular crew it'd turn into a proper PITA compared to somthing a little bigger or quicker.

[SeeFive]

Tsippy said:

1) Can any of you recommend a good RYA site in Gosport/Fareham or nearby? As with driving lessons, I imagine there is a mix of good and bad instructors so a recommendation would be appreciated.

I did my stink pot courses with these guys many years ago following a recommendation from another RYA instructor friend of mine in Falmouth. I would want to do an own boat course for more personal relevance, so I'd be tempted to hang on till you get your boat and speak to Henry Hiller - he is based on the River Hamble.

http://www.marine-matters.co.uk

Henry did my own boat power training for me out of Port Solent from helmsman upwards about 10 years ago. He is an ex-marine, so can take you through power, sail and even hanging under a Chinook in a 10 metre inflatable if you really want

Good luck with the new moneypit.

[Tsippy]

Thanks SeeFive, I'll contact them with regards to the RYA courses :-)

Jaguar - Thanks for the info, I was not aware that the insurance would limit the size of boat they'd insure for cross-channel journies so that info is very useful! There'll be two of us sailing the boat, so I guess that gives us a bit more variety on choice :-)


Thanks again everyone for the help, it's much appreciated

[Jaguar steve]

Tsippy said:

Thanks SeeFive, I'll contact them with regards to the RYA courses :-)

Jaguar - Thanks for the info, I was not aware that the insurance would limit the size of boat they'd insure for cross-channel journies so that info is very useful! There'll be two of us sailing the boat, so I guess that gives us a bit more variety on choice :-)


Thanks again everyone for the help, it's much appreciated

Specific cover from my current insurer is up to 12 nautical miles offshore - although they insure further out for a port to port trip over 12 miles offshore which you'll easily exceed if for example you're crossing the Thames Estuary from North Foreland and into one of the Suffolk rivers.

They'll allow 12 miles off the French coast too so my cunning plan was to cross from Dover to Calias and just go without cover mid-channel for a few miles, but no, cover on the French side is only available for a 6m boat with an outboard if you trailer it over on the ferry.

If there's two of you then boat and sail handling as well as pilotage into a new area is so much easier, especially if you're away on a long trip.

Just remember it's always the Skipper's job to buy the first round when you go ashore

[nigelflack]

I know it's a bit different than asked, but have you thought about shared sailing to get started? I joined myboatshare.com and think it's been great. It'll add up if you keep doing it season after season but to get started it would probably be a good option. They have a 30ft Bavaria that's £399/month. Or there's Sailtime.

There are tons of costs associated with a boat, and lots to learn - even after you pass Day Skipper.

[Tsippy]

Thanks again, luckily the crew would be my partner so I am sure she'll be ok with a glass of wine

Nigel : Thanks for that site, but I think for what we'd be doing we'd prefer out own boat, plus with the lower end of the market we're looking at it'd be better to purchase. We have looked at the running costs but thankfully we're quite practical and hands on with regards to working on cars, homes etc so I am sure we'll be able to cut a lot of the expense out (ie labour!)

We'll hopefully get our first lessons next month

Thanks again for the tips :-)