Stamina, and how to build it.
Discussion
OK, so as many of you know I am currently enjoying road riding and like to get out on it as often as possible during the week and weekends.
I have been riding my usual route throughout the weekday evenings (varying between 8 and 11 miles depending on what I fancy) which contains a mixture of flat road, slight hills, fast sections and parts where a head wind is almost guaranteed. At weekends I head out a little further, and do the odd lap of Richmond Park.
My riding can vary. Sometimes I go for a fast pace, but recently I have been trying to keep at 17/18mph for as long as possible to keep things consistent and increase my stamina while maintaining a steady pedal speed.
The trouble is that I don't seem to be improving much despite the hours I put in. I'm still a sweaty mess at the end of the ride, and my legs are pretty shot after 20 miles (I can even feel a wobble in my legs after the 10 miler).
So what's the solution? Keep at it as I probably am improving but don't realise? Vary my training? Eat/ drink something along the way to give me a boost (water bottles only filled with orange squash usually). Do more gym work, lower the speed?
I've listened to advice from Swerni and Stuart but still don't seem to be improving. I'm looking forward to the L2B in a few months, but need to up my stamina considerably before attempting to complete it in a respectable time.
If it helps, I am 5ft 11, in good health, not carrying much fat and ride this
I have been riding my usual route throughout the weekday evenings (varying between 8 and 11 miles depending on what I fancy) which contains a mixture of flat road, slight hills, fast sections and parts where a head wind is almost guaranteed. At weekends I head out a little further, and do the odd lap of Richmond Park.
My riding can vary. Sometimes I go for a fast pace, but recently I have been trying to keep at 17/18mph for as long as possible to keep things consistent and increase my stamina while maintaining a steady pedal speed.
The trouble is that I don't seem to be improving much despite the hours I put in. I'm still a sweaty mess at the end of the ride, and my legs are pretty shot after 20 miles (I can even feel a wobble in my legs after the 10 miler).
So what's the solution? Keep at it as I probably am improving but don't realise? Vary my training? Eat/ drink something along the way to give me a boost (water bottles only filled with orange squash usually). Do more gym work, lower the speed?
I've listened to advice from Swerni and Stuart but still don't seem to be improving. I'm looking forward to the L2B in a few months, but need to up my stamina considerably before attempting to complete it in a respectable time.
If it helps, I am 5ft 11, in good health, not carrying much fat and ride this
Hilly routes old bean. I did SS 24hr race a few years back and did most of my training on road on gently undulating routes ~ 40miles per day. When I moved house, I did all my training off road using a very very hilly route, which was actually much shorter ~ 15 miles a day. I found that my fitness was far higher and my stamina on the road was massively increased.
The key thing was that any hill I could blast up without getting knackered and I could carry a much higher gear and / or cadence when I needed to. My recovery rates were so much better.
The key thing was that any hill I could blast up without getting knackered and I could carry a much higher gear and / or cadence when I needed to. My recovery rates were so much better.
I'm not much of a bike-ist, but I took up running 6-8 months ago and had similar issues, just didnt seem to be getting any better or fitter and might only tack 1/4 of a mile on my longest distance every week or two.
I found cross training helped, i.e getting off the road and into the gym, rowing, bike and cross-trainer, typically doing interval or tempo workouts. I think it's the Tempo effort stuff that really made the difference, easier to do this in the gym than out and about...
Also, get lifting some weights, I'm guessing squats and lunges would work for bike riding? Building up your strength should make the hard bits of your ride that much easier.
Good luck.
I found cross training helped, i.e getting off the road and into the gym, rowing, bike and cross-trainer, typically doing interval or tempo workouts. I think it's the Tempo effort stuff that really made the difference, easier to do this in the gym than out and about...
Also, get lifting some weights, I'm guessing squats and lunges would work for bike riding? Building up your strength should make the hard bits of your ride that much easier.
Good luck.
As mentioned, hilly routes and intervals/fartleks really help.
But for proper endurance, you need to do long group rides. Start at about 40 miles at a time once a week, and keep the speed fairly low, 14-15mph. After about 1.5-2hrs, your body will run out of glycogen stores and start using your fat for energy. This is where your proper training starts. Make sure you eat/drink carbs whilst on the bike, and don't do any sprinting or beasting up hills. That can come later on, once you've taught your body how to use your food instead of your body for energy.
After a month of that, increase it to 60-70 miles. In between these longer rides, you can do a couple of short sharp training rides for speed and power. The point will come where you arrive at a hill and realise that you found it surprisingly easy.
But for proper endurance, you need to do long group rides. Start at about 40 miles at a time once a week, and keep the speed fairly low, 14-15mph. After about 1.5-2hrs, your body will run out of glycogen stores and start using your fat for energy. This is where your proper training starts. Make sure you eat/drink carbs whilst on the bike, and don't do any sprinting or beasting up hills. That can come later on, once you've taught your body how to use your food instead of your body for energy.
After a month of that, increase it to 60-70 miles. In between these longer rides, you can do a couple of short sharp training rides for speed and power. The point will come where you arrive at a hill and realise that you found it surprisingly easy.
Muzzlehatch said:
As mentioned, hilly routes and intervals/fartleks really help.
But for proper endurance, you need to do long group rides. Start at about 40 miles at a time once a week, and keep the speed fairly low, 14-15mph. After about 1.5-2hrs, your body will run out of glycogen stores and start using your fat for energy. This is where your proper training starts. Make sure you eat/drink carbs whilst on the bike, and don't do any sprinting or beasting up hills. That can come later on, once you've taught your body how to use your food instead of your body for energy.
After a month of that, increase it to 60-70 miles. In between these longer rides, you can do a couple of short sharp training rides for speed and power. The point will come where you arrive at a hill and realise that you found it surprisingly easy.
Do you not think that's a step too far? What you say is absolutely spot on, but I'd argue it is more suitable advice for a a competitive club rider. Intervals and hilly routes will give you 50-60miles of decent speed before you start to suffer. But for proper endurance, you need to do long group rides. Start at about 40 miles at a time once a week, and keep the speed fairly low, 14-15mph. After about 1.5-2hrs, your body will run out of glycogen stores and start using your fat for energy. This is where your proper training starts. Make sure you eat/drink carbs whilst on the bike, and don't do any sprinting or beasting up hills. That can come later on, once you've taught your body how to use your food instead of your body for energy.
After a month of that, increase it to 60-70 miles. In between these longer rides, you can do a couple of short sharp training rides for speed and power. The point will come where you arrive at a hill and realise that you found it surprisingly easy.
Garlick how far do you need to be able to do in a single run?
Don't go too quick too fast. Keep the speed down, and focus on just completing rides of the sort of distance you're aiming for. Once you're there, work on increasing average speed bit by bit.
As rides get longer you'll certainly need some fuel to keep going - your short-term energy stores can get depleted in 90-120 mins so without topping it up with easily digestible energy you'll end up with that feeling of not having enough strength to push the pedals around. With two bottles I like to have one with energy drink, one with plain water (the energy drinks can get a bit much). Banana and/or energy bar to munch on the way round. Gels are worth trying for a quick hit of energy - worth having them "just in case" but always give them a try before a big event to make sure they don't upset your stomach. If you stop somewhere on the route, avoid anything too heavy.
There's loads of "sportive" type rides these days all over the place, usually you can do 30ish, 50ish or 80ish mile loops and they're good for finding new routes and as they're all signposted, nice to be able to do a long ride without faffing about with maps.
As rides get longer you'll certainly need some fuel to keep going - your short-term energy stores can get depleted in 90-120 mins so without topping it up with easily digestible energy you'll end up with that feeling of not having enough strength to push the pedals around. With two bottles I like to have one with energy drink, one with plain water (the energy drinks can get a bit much). Banana and/or energy bar to munch on the way round. Gels are worth trying for a quick hit of energy - worth having them "just in case" but always give them a try before a big event to make sure they don't upset your stomach. If you stop somewhere on the route, avoid anything too heavy.
There's loads of "sportive" type rides these days all over the place, usually you can do 30ish, 50ish or 80ish mile loops and they're good for finding new routes and as they're all signposted, nice to be able to do a long ride without faffing about with maps.
As I said above, I don't think I am quite ready for 40-70 miles just yet 
rhinochopig said:
Garlick how far do you need to be able to do in a single run?
I would like to be able to comfortably cover 20 - 30 miles at the moment, that would be a great start. The L2B is just over 60 miles, so I would like to be confident of covering that mileage relatively comfortably by June. If you want someone to train with in Richmond, I'll be there 2 or 3 nights a week when it's dry. (I think you have my email.)
When I used to row, we built stamina by working to a particular heart rate. With cycling, you also need to think about cadence to get the best from your fast and slow twitch muscles.
At the end of the day, doing the miles will make a big difference too...
When I used to row, we built stamina by working to a particular heart rate. With cycling, you also need to think about cadence to get the best from your fast and slow twitch muscles.
At the end of the day, doing the miles will make a big difference too...
rhinochopig said:
Muzzlehatch said:
As mentioned, hilly routes and intervals/fartleks really help.
But for proper endurance, you need to do long group rides. Start at about 40 miles at a time once a week, and keep the speed fairly low, 14-15mph. After about 1.5-2hrs, your body will run out of glycogen stores and start using your fat for energy. This is where your proper training starts. Make sure you eat/drink carbs whilst on the bike, and don't do any sprinting or beasting up hills. That can come later on, once you've taught your body how to use your food instead of your body for energy.
After a month of that, increase it to 60-70 miles. In between these longer rides, you can do a couple of short sharp training rides for speed and power. The point will come where you arrive at a hill and realise that you found it surprisingly easy.
Do you not think that's a step too far? What you say is absolutely spot on, but I'd argue it is more suitable advice for a a competitive club rider. Intervals and hilly routes will give you 50-60miles of decent speed before you start to suffer. But for proper endurance, you need to do long group rides. Start at about 40 miles at a time once a week, and keep the speed fairly low, 14-15mph. After about 1.5-2hrs, your body will run out of glycogen stores and start using your fat for energy. This is where your proper training starts. Make sure you eat/drink carbs whilst on the bike, and don't do any sprinting or beasting up hills. That can come later on, once you've taught your body how to use your food instead of your body for energy.
After a month of that, increase it to 60-70 miles. In between these longer rides, you can do a couple of short sharp training rides for speed and power. The point will come where you arrive at a hill and realise that you found it surprisingly easy.
Garlick said:
As I said above, I don't think I am quite ready for 40-70 miles just yet
Interval / Hill Routes will give you that. My 15 mile hill route done 4/5 times a week allowed (note past tense - children make you fat) those distances easily. Every Easter a group of us put slicks and luggage on our MTB tandems and do 50-70 miles every day for 4 days including enough beer drinking to suffer from some horrendous hangovers which require vomit stops.rhinochopig said:
Garlick how far do you need to be able to do in a single run?
I would like to be able to comfortably cover 20 - 30 miles at the moment, that would be a great start. The L2B is just over 60 miles, so I would like to be confident of covering that mileage relatively comfortably by June. Google Interval / Fartlek there is little point repeating here what is already out there. It will hurt though, but eventually you start to enjoy the challenge of finding steep hills to conquer - and I'm the totally wrong build for climbing 6'5" and 15.5 stone.
Train hard or train easy, don't get stuck in the grey bit in between.
Most people, myself included, work too hard on what should be 'easy' days, and not hard enough on what should be 'hard' days.
You ought, I think, to be focusing on 'base' training, which means long, steady distance at a pace that's well below your aerobic threshold: if you're breathing too hard to talk easily, or if you're getting off the bike soaked wih sweat - at this time of year - then slow down, but ride further.
Most people, myself included, work too hard on what should be 'easy' days, and not hard enough on what should be 'hard' days.
You ought, I think, to be focusing on 'base' training, which means long, steady distance at a pace that's well below your aerobic threshold: if you're breathing too hard to talk easily, or if you're getting off the bike soaked wih sweat - at this time of year - then slow down, but ride further.
I think it would be good to start experimenting with food sources and energy drinks now, rather than just trying them on the L2B.
It might be a good idea to learn / practise drafting folk as well, which will help make L2B more enjoyable and ultimately easier.
I am by no means an expert, but have done a few group rides, and am happy to tow people round Richmond Park. (I'm very big, so it's like following a bus, you'll notice the difference.)
It might be a good idea to learn / practise drafting folk as well, which will help make L2B more enjoyable and ultimately easier.
I am by no means an expert, but have done a few group rides, and am happy to tow people round Richmond Park. (I'm very big, so it's like following a bus, you'll notice the difference.)
another recommendation for fartlek traininig here, i found it really does work. hill rides/runs are very good too, find a hill on a circular route that gives you the chance to recover before attacking it again but dont make the recovery route too long or you will lose some of the benefit
a well coached spinning class could also be worthwhile, group exercise/training is a good psychological practice too.
regarding energy drinks and the like, its always worth experimenting with things pre, post and during a ride but i found they are only really useful on long runs/rides greater than 1 1/2 hours or so where you should have eaten well to provide enough energy i nthe first place (though i do appreciate that working in the day means that this is not always possible - i dont think anyone would advocate gels and the like as a substitute to pre ride food though).
i do feel better if i recover properly though and eat the right stuff after a long ride. its too easy to pile down the things that the body thinks it wants rather tha nwhat it needs.... i have tried the mass marketed stuff with all its high powered claims like "for goodness shakes" which i would recommend but nesquick and a pint of mil is 1/3 the cost!
a well coached spinning class could also be worthwhile, group exercise/training is a good psychological practice too.
regarding energy drinks and the like, its always worth experimenting with things pre, post and during a ride but i found they are only really useful on long runs/rides greater than 1 1/2 hours or so where you should have eaten well to provide enough energy i nthe first place (though i do appreciate that working in the day means that this is not always possible - i dont think anyone would advocate gels and the like as a substitute to pre ride food though).
i do feel better if i recover properly though and eat the right stuff after a long ride. its too easy to pile down the things that the body thinks it wants rather tha nwhat it needs.... i have tried the mass marketed stuff with all its high powered claims like "for goodness shakes" which i would recommend but nesquick and a pint of mil is 1/3 the cost!
pablo said:
i do feel better if i recover properly though and eat the right stuff after a long ride. its too easy to pile down the things that the body thinks it wants rather tha nwhat it needs.... i have tried the mass marketed stuff with all its high powered claims like "for goodness shakes" which i would recommend but nesquick and a pint of mil is 1/3 the cost!
Damn right. A tin of tuna and a pint of Guinness sorts me out good and proper 
If the above aren't available, Zipvit recovery drink is top notch.
Hills and singlespeed. I reached a complete plateau from doing the same route over and over again (it was my commute to and from work, so couldn't really vary it too much). Then I took the gears off the bike and was shocked at how much it increased my fitness just a few weeks. No lazing around spinning up the hills you see...
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