Integra Type R DC2- tell me more
Discussion
Following on from an earlier thread regarding a future purchase, I discovered I could afford the insurance on a DC2 Integra Type R despite being a 20 yr old female (will be 21 or 22 at time of purchase) for well under the 1k mark, and considerably cheaper than a Celica which was my previous first choice.
I was expecting the Integra to be well over 2k for insurance so hadn't actually considered one! Now that its actually possible, I really really fancy the idea of one, 1998 - 1999 spec on insurance all comes back with cheap, viable results.
So please tell me more! As much info regarding maintenance, running costs, things to avoid, things to look out for etc would be great. I know the UK spec seems to be the round headlights whereas the JDM features the squarer ones, but other than that, I'm not too clued up on the spec. differences (if any) of the two. Any guidance and advice would be fantastic.
Cheers in advance
Louisa
I was expecting the Integra to be well over 2k for insurance so hadn't actually considered one! Now that its actually possible, I really really fancy the idea of one, 1998 - 1999 spec on insurance all comes back with cheap, viable results.
So please tell me more! As much info regarding maintenance, running costs, things to avoid, things to look out for etc would be great. I know the UK spec seems to be the round headlights whereas the JDM features the squarer ones, but other than that, I'm not too clued up on the spec. differences (if any) of the two. Any guidance and advice would be fantastic.
Cheers in advance
Louisa
Edited by Louisa911 on Tuesday 6th April 21:05
i had one of these, great cars, i prefer the import, usualy much better condition chassis wise than one thats been in uk for 10 years or so.
the only thing is watch out for blue smoke from the exhaust, they have a habbit of burning lots of oil.
its been coverd loads and if you read the forums there is a new topic each day about using oil.
mine went through half litre a week
just be carful, if you do go and look at one get someone to stand behind the car and rev it to 3000rpm a few times and check for smoke.
if it smokes forget it, worn piston rings = £££££££££££££££££££
the only thing is watch out for blue smoke from the exhaust, they have a habbit of burning lots of oil.
its been coverd loads and if you read the forums there is a new topic each day about using oil.
mine went through half litre a week
just be carful, if you do go and look at one get someone to stand behind the car and rev it to 3000rpm a few times and check for smoke.
if it smokes forget it, worn piston rings = £££££££££££££££££££
Great cars, bulletproof engines. You have to wring it's neck to get the best from it, so depends on your driving style. If you prefer big torquey turbo engines then it's not the car for you.
Chassis is spot on and very rewarding to drive. They're not desperately compromised - they put you in close touch with the road and the sensation of driving. Not great for long-distance commuting, but it is doable.
There's a great forum for the ITR-DC2 (google that - not sure if I'm allowed to name here) where there's great advice on every aspect of the car no matter what you plan to do with it.
Chassis is spot on and very rewarding to drive. They're not desperately compromised - they put you in close touch with the road and the sensation of driving. Not great for long-distance commuting, but it is doable.
There's a great forum for the ITR-DC2 (google that - not sure if I'm allowed to name here) where there's great advice on every aspect of the car no matter what you plan to do with it.
Louisa911 said:
Cheers will remember that. What would you say the daily maintenance and running costs are like?
driven sensible 30+mpg, oil and filter £35 for good stuff.if it has not had a cambelt done then this needs to get replaced, approx £120 inc belt, depends on how much your local garage charge for labour? 2 hour job max.
not much else to go wrong!
Running costs aren't hurrendous. They're reasonable on fuel out of VTEC. Oil change is generally every 6000 miles by most enthusiasts (can't remember if that's the recommended interval or not).
Honda parts aren't that cheap, but there are plenty of places available to get parts from.
With regards to oil consumption - also check for blue smoke on VTEC from the exhaust (VTEC only engages when the car is moving so you'll have to be on the road to see it). They DO burn a little oil on VTEC, but there shouldn't be massive plumes of blue smoke.
Honda parts aren't that cheap, but there are plenty of places available to get parts from.
With regards to oil consumption - also check for blue smoke on VTEC from the exhaust (VTEC only engages when the car is moving so you'll have to be on the road to see it). They DO burn a little oil on VTEC, but there shouldn't be massive plumes of blue smoke.
Louisa911 said:
Would you have your heart set on finding one with service history? And if not, what would be the maximum mileage you'd consider? Lots are going beyond the 100k mark in the classifieds.
id be looking for one with history. yes. its a very highly strung engine and you want to know its been maintained well when it can scream all the way to 9k.mileage is less of an issue i would say as the engines do cope well as long as they are maintained. plus if you average out at 10k per year and you are looking at a 10 year old car, that of course is over 100k
i loved mine. its hardcore but useable if that makes sense. the seats are fantastic and the engine is a joy to behold - better than my old civic and as good as the one in my old S2000. running costs will be ok - tyres cheap as they are only small rims. there are also plenty of specialists about (not sure where you live but here in the NW there are a couple i used to use)
they are superb cars and you will reap soooo much more enjoyment from one than (the admittedly very competent even in 130bhp guise) a celica
matt21 said:
I have one, the first ever infact (#00001), and still as sweet as a nut.
Great car.
I take it this is yours?Great car.
http://www.integratyper.org/ukdm/rides/00001/00001...
And as for using oil....my DC2 never used any oil despite a trackday every month for two years.
Very good news!
The JDM ones I think have slightly more power, are cleaner as they get a full going over before imported, under seal ect... think they might actually also be lighter...
The car generally is glued to the road and very good round the twisties especially for a FWD car.
Would warm up the engine before taking it to the higher revs and main power band, or else you're going to do some damage to the car. sometimes you can actually tell how well the cars been looked after by having the owner take you out for a test drive in it, as well as your own test drive... if the owner revs it up and really puts his foot down before the cars even warm could result in bad condition car.
All ITR DC2's come with Recaro seats, bolsters may be worn. make sure that the standard of the car matches the millage.
The JDM ones I think have slightly more power, are cleaner as they get a full going over before imported, under seal ect... think they might actually also be lighter...
The car generally is glued to the road and very good round the twisties especially for a FWD car.
Would warm up the engine before taking it to the higher revs and main power band, or else you're going to do some damage to the car. sometimes you can actually tell how well the cars been looked after by having the owner take you out for a test drive in it, as well as your own test drive... if the owner revs it up and really puts his foot down before the cars even warm could result in bad condition car.
All ITR DC2's come with Recaro seats, bolsters may be worn. make sure that the standard of the car matches the millage.
Great car, but time has put them into two clear catagories for me. The fewer and fewer remaining good ones, and the rest which have led very hard lives and are now showing it, most of which are being punted out as a good one by blinkered owners...
Engines are virtually bulletproof, but there are plenty about with shagged syncros, rust, knackered seats and needing some bodywork TLC. The ones worth buying command large premiums, and for me it is worth it as I simply wouldn't want one that has led a very hard life at the hands of numerous far from sympathetic owners.
It's a specialist performance car when all is said and done, so buy with caution. Certain parts are bespoke and very expensive. It's also getting on a bit now. Hondas do need remedial work and freshing just like any other car.
Engines are virtually bulletproof, but there are plenty about with shagged syncros, rust, knackered seats and needing some bodywork TLC. The ones worth buying command large premiums, and for me it is worth it as I simply wouldn't want one that has led a very hard life at the hands of numerous far from sympathetic owners.
It's a specialist performance car when all is said and done, so buy with caution. Certain parts are bespoke and very expensive. It's also getting on a bit now. Hondas do need remedial work and freshing just like any other car.
Louisa911 said:
Would you have your heart set on finding one with service history? And if not, what would be the maximum mileage you'd consider? Lots are going beyond the 100k mark in the classifieds.
I think condition is more important than service history. Even more so on a vehicle this age, as many may well have been well maintained at home or by local mechanics, so might not have the stamps.Mileage is an issue to a degree, lower will always be nice. But to be honest when I was looking last year they all seemed high mileage, so you don't really have much choice.
As for the actual car. I personally prefer the look of the UK spec ones, so much nicer with the quad headlights.
Apart from that its then down to spec. There's the 96 and the 98 spec in the JDM (Japanese Domestic Market, or imports).
Basically the perform very similar, although the 98 is probably superior overall. The UK spec was a mis-mash of both specs and sort of falls somewhere in the middle, but with a tad less HP.
Things to watch for from what I found out.
Rust - UK ones seem to rust on the rear arches. Although I suspect JDM's won't be far behind.
Gearbox - These have issues, and most ITR's I looked it had, had a replacement box at some point. I think this might be the most common fault I read on them.
JDM - stuff isn't usually undersealed (not sure with ITR's) but is worth checking, as it will rust a lot quicker without it.
Seats - lots of them I saw seemed to have very tatty front seats.
Insurance - Did you check for both UK and JDM variants? I would expect a JDM to cost more to insure.
Think that's most of it that I now of. Very nice capable cars. But they are quite purposeful, racey, loud and revvy. If you enjoy driving (spirited driving) then they are a good bet. If you want to sit back and listen to music it's probably the wrong car.
/\ /\ /\
This man knows all
You need to head over to www.itr-dc2.com
History is important but if you buy one from someone who knows what they are talking about and have maintained the car, its often going to be a better car.
Anyone can take there honda to a garage every 10K miles if you know what I mean.
If you buy UK spec, check the rear arches for rust, also take a good look at the roof line where it meets the rear window. They tend to rust a little here as well but from what I have seen nothing more than cosmetic. The UK cars have/had rubber seals on the inside of the arch, what was a good idea when new now causes problems due to water getting stuck underneath. I removed mine and many other owners do the same. If they are still in place get a look underneath them.
They do burn more oil then most cars but thats expected from an engine that revs so high. Mine however didnt have the problem and that was with 120K on the clock (sold it soon after). The owner will tell you this I am sure. The engine is very strong if maintained, if not there are problems. So ask them how often the oil has been changed.
Make sure that when you take it for a test drive to check the gear change. 2nd - 3rd is important. If all is well when driven hard there should be no problems with the sync mech.
Purely cosmetic, the championship white cars tend to look very dull when not looked after. The paint looses its shine and its often that not all body panels match perfectly. If you go to see one, make sure its during the day and that its not raining. I loved my DC2 but I purchased it in the afternoon only to find out that the paintwork was not quite what I had seen at dusk :-(
I think these are the main points.
Cheers
This man knows all
You need to head over to www.itr-dc2.com
History is important but if you buy one from someone who knows what they are talking about and have maintained the car, its often going to be a better car.
Anyone can take there honda to a garage every 10K miles if you know what I mean.
If you buy UK spec, check the rear arches for rust, also take a good look at the roof line where it meets the rear window. They tend to rust a little here as well but from what I have seen nothing more than cosmetic. The UK cars have/had rubber seals on the inside of the arch, what was a good idea when new now causes problems due to water getting stuck underneath. I removed mine and many other owners do the same. If they are still in place get a look underneath them.
They do burn more oil then most cars but thats expected from an engine that revs so high. Mine however didnt have the problem and that was with 120K on the clock (sold it soon after). The owner will tell you this I am sure. The engine is very strong if maintained, if not there are problems. So ask them how often the oil has been changed.
Make sure that when you take it for a test drive to check the gear change. 2nd - 3rd is important. If all is well when driven hard there should be no problems with the sync mech.
Purely cosmetic, the championship white cars tend to look very dull when not looked after. The paint looses its shine and its often that not all body panels match perfectly. If you go to see one, make sure its during the day and that its not raining. I loved my DC2 but I purchased it in the afternoon only to find out that the paintwork was not quite what I had seen at dusk :-(
I think these are the main points.
Cheers
Edited by vz-r_dave on Thursday 8th April 11:57
mp3manager said:
matt21 said:
I have one, the first ever infact (#00001), and still as sweet as a nut.
Great car.
I take it this is yours?Great car.
http://www.integratyper.org/ukdm/rides/00001/00001...
And as for using oil....my DC2 never used any oil despite a trackday every month for two years.
vz-r_dave said:
Make sure that when you take it for a test drive to check the gear change. 2nd - 3rd is important. If all is well when driven hard there should be no problems with the sync mech.
With a car such as these Louisa do give it a good hard drive on your test drive (when it's warmed up though). But run it through to the red line, use WOT. This will help tell if the gearbox is ok.Edited by vz-r_dave on Thursday 8th April 11:57
No need to thrash it, but don't baby it either.
300 has covered most of the bases. And itr-dc2 is a very good resource!
My thoughts (being on my 2nd...sold the first one and missed it too much!) are as follows:-
- JDM will cost more to insure, so that might be an issue. JDM '98-spec came with bigger (282mm UKDM-size) front brakes, 16" wheels (and re-tuned suspension to match) and a few other changes. HIDs were an option too. JDM '96 mechanically are essentially a UKDM car with different wheels, smaller 262mm front-brakes, and the JDM engine (2.5" exhaust manifold not 2.25" and mapped to run on 100RON fuel - 197bhp on 100RON, but only a few bhp more than a UKDM on 97RON).
Put simply, they're all close enough that you should go with what you like the look of better, but a JDM '98 would probably be (marginally) the quickest.
- the red paint suffers very badly with fade...any car not kept in a garage for most of its life will now be looking rather pink! And white really isn't white...it's more like magnolia!
- be careful with ones which have been modded...the stock engine is near-bulletproof as long as kept lubricated (some do drink oil, but neither of mine has been any more than 100ml/1000miles), but you've no idea about the quality of the installation of the mods, nor any remapping...and all cars are >10y.o. now!
- most people consider the standard suspension and standard wheels to be the best ride/handling compromise. OE dampers aren't that expensive either, so the only reason someone will have fitted after-market is because they wanted to or they're cheap. Poly-bushes are also a no-no unless you plan to use it on track much...the car was set-up with OE bushes in mind, and poly-bushes DO affect the handling.
- Servicing IS important with Hondas...but it doesn't need to be main-dealer. Look for lots or receipts and for regular (3-year or less) changes of e.g. valve clearances and brake fluid, not just annual oil-and-filter.
- Common problems include 2nd-3rd gear synchromesh, gear linkage (gets worn, esp if gear-changes are rough, and can feel 'loose' afterwards), air-con, driver's seat-bolster, and...erm...not much else unless the car's been abused. Clutch life varies massively from 40k to 80k depending on how driven, while dampers and bushes are likely to be tired on most cars now, so you may want to consider that.
- The car CAN deal with trackdays (better than most road-cars this side of an Elise), so don't let that put you off. But factor in accelerated wear to the clutch, gearbox, suspension and bushes.
Finally, there's been a beautiful YELLOW '98-spec JDM Type-Rx (very rare, and as loaded as ITRs got) up in the small-ads for a while. It's over-priced, but damn it's tempting...
My thoughts (being on my 2nd...sold the first one and missed it too much!) are as follows:-
- JDM will cost more to insure, so that might be an issue. JDM '98-spec came with bigger (282mm UKDM-size) front brakes, 16" wheels (and re-tuned suspension to match) and a few other changes. HIDs were an option too. JDM '96 mechanically are essentially a UKDM car with different wheels, smaller 262mm front-brakes, and the JDM engine (2.5" exhaust manifold not 2.25" and mapped to run on 100RON fuel - 197bhp on 100RON, but only a few bhp more than a UKDM on 97RON).
Put simply, they're all close enough that you should go with what you like the look of better, but a JDM '98 would probably be (marginally) the quickest.
- the red paint suffers very badly with fade...any car not kept in a garage for most of its life will now be looking rather pink! And white really isn't white...it's more like magnolia!
- be careful with ones which have been modded...the stock engine is near-bulletproof as long as kept lubricated (some do drink oil, but neither of mine has been any more than 100ml/1000miles), but you've no idea about the quality of the installation of the mods, nor any remapping...and all cars are >10y.o. now!
- most people consider the standard suspension and standard wheels to be the best ride/handling compromise. OE dampers aren't that expensive either, so the only reason someone will have fitted after-market is because they wanted to or they're cheap. Poly-bushes are also a no-no unless you plan to use it on track much...the car was set-up with OE bushes in mind, and poly-bushes DO affect the handling.
- Servicing IS important with Hondas...but it doesn't need to be main-dealer. Look for lots or receipts and for regular (3-year or less) changes of e.g. valve clearances and brake fluid, not just annual oil-and-filter.
- Common problems include 2nd-3rd gear synchromesh, gear linkage (gets worn, esp if gear-changes are rough, and can feel 'loose' afterwards), air-con, driver's seat-bolster, and...erm...not much else unless the car's been abused. Clutch life varies massively from 40k to 80k depending on how driven, while dampers and bushes are likely to be tired on most cars now, so you may want to consider that.
- The car CAN deal with trackdays (better than most road-cars this side of an Elise), so don't let that put you off. But factor in accelerated wear to the clutch, gearbox, suspension and bushes.
Finally, there's been a beautiful YELLOW '98-spec JDM Type-Rx (very rare, and as loaded as ITRs got) up in the small-ads for a while. It's over-priced, but damn it's tempting...
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