What Car? Toyota Celica 140 / 190 etc...
Discussion
Hello all
I'm currently a student, but depending on how this year plays out, I could have some cash availiable to get myself another car after selling my previous ones before Uni.
I'd be looking at something along the lines of a Celica, also been looking at the 2.2 or 2.0 turbo Astra Bertone which seems a nice car but not too keen on Vauxhalls in general. I also like the idea of an MX5 but somehow they are more expensive for me to insure over a Celica 190... and not quite practical enough for a daily driver.
Must be okay on fuel (30mpg at least), quicker than my 1.8 focus, at least 4 seats, and be reliable without any expensive servicing. Budget would be around £4k, and another £1k for insurance (i'm a female so that helps a bit). Seat Leon Cupra also crossed my mind but I've had 4 hatchbacks now and I fancy something a bit different.
Is the Celica 190 worth getting over the 140 when it comes to performance gains? I heard it has to be revved very high to benefit from the extra power, being a low torquey engine? It'd be an extra £500-ish to get hold of a decent 190 (judging by the classifieds) and an extra £200 to insure.
Due to being a student and short on cash, I'd probably keep the vehicle for a few years at least, so would be pretty keen on looking into some basic performance modifications over the few years of ownership, a custom sports exhaust, maybe uprated brakes /suspension etc. nothing over the top. Would it be worthwile doing this on a 140 over a 190?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers!
I'm currently a student, but depending on how this year plays out, I could have some cash availiable to get myself another car after selling my previous ones before Uni.
I'd be looking at something along the lines of a Celica, also been looking at the 2.2 or 2.0 turbo Astra Bertone which seems a nice car but not too keen on Vauxhalls in general. I also like the idea of an MX5 but somehow they are more expensive for me to insure over a Celica 190... and not quite practical enough for a daily driver.
Must be okay on fuel (30mpg at least), quicker than my 1.8 focus, at least 4 seats, and be reliable without any expensive servicing. Budget would be around £4k, and another £1k for insurance (i'm a female so that helps a bit). Seat Leon Cupra also crossed my mind but I've had 4 hatchbacks now and I fancy something a bit different.
Is the Celica 190 worth getting over the 140 when it comes to performance gains? I heard it has to be revved very high to benefit from the extra power, being a low torquey engine? It'd be an extra £500-ish to get hold of a decent 190 (judging by the classifieds) and an extra £200 to insure.
Due to being a student and short on cash, I'd probably keep the vehicle for a few years at least, so would be pretty keen on looking into some basic performance modifications over the few years of ownership, a custom sports exhaust, maybe uprated brakes /suspension etc. nothing over the top. Would it be worthwile doing this on a 140 over a 190?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers!
My only suggestion about the Celica is that a close mate of mine has one and it seems to attract rust VERY easily i.e - rust sealed and removed when bought about 6 months ago and it is nearly all back already (albeit not as bad as before).
The Astra will get a little boring after a while. I have had the 2.0 turbo convertible for about 2 years and it does (surprisingly) put a smile on my face when I take it out, but it is a little bit 'Vauxhall' in the excitement stakes!
How about an MR2 or MGTF? Probably around the same budget, don't know about insurance though.
The Astra will get a little boring after a while. I have had the 2.0 turbo convertible for about 2 years and it does (surprisingly) put a smile on my face when I take it out, but it is a little bit 'Vauxhall' in the excitement stakes!
How about an MR2 or MGTF? Probably around the same budget, don't know about insurance though.
It really depends how you drive the 190, it is quicker than the 140 version but not hugely so in most situations. unless most situations for you are driving at over 5500rpm. The big flaw in the engine when fitted to heavy cars is that the torque is so low even at peak that it struggles to make you feel like you are going quickly.
What about a nice Alfa GTV?
What about a nice Alfa GTV?
Gaz. said:
If you buy the 140 you'll always have a tinge of regret that you didn't buy the 190.
Hmm thats what I've been thinking! Only thing is, the 190 I've been quoted £1800 insurance, with aftermarket exhaust, uprated brakes and air filter.... an extra £600 for the mods. But the same mods on a 140, it only raises it by £200 maximum!Gaz. said:
If you buy the 140 you'll always have a tinge of regret that you didn't buy the 190.
Unles you try both and realise that you won't actually be revving the nuts off it very often? Based on what I've read, the engine/gearbox combination isn't great on the 190 with a very narrow powerband at the very top of the rev range that it drops you out of when you change up. Performance lower in the rev range I would have thought is very similar to the 140.
I have a 140 as daily driver.
Its got 120k on it, done 50k or so in past 3 years. Its a fantastic car and doesnt show any signs of dying anytime soon.
Its now at the stage where having to replace discs and calipers, but really thats all thats had to be replaced.
No rust and no signs of rusting currently. Handling is great, the 140 is a little slow, i would definatley get the 190, you will only regret it.
They do tend to use a little oil after 85k, seems to be a VVTli engine thing. I would highly recommend one!
Its got 120k on it, done 50k or so in past 3 years. Its a fantastic car and doesnt show any signs of dying anytime soon.
Its now at the stage where having to replace discs and calipers, but really thats all thats had to be replaced.
No rust and no signs of rusting currently. Handling is great, the 140 is a little slow, i would definatley get the 190, you will only regret it.
They do tend to use a little oil after 85k, seems to be a VVTli engine thing. I would highly recommend one!
shibby! said:
I have a 140 as daily driver.
Its got 120k on it, done 50k or so in past 3 years. Its a fantastic car and doesnt show any signs of dying anytime soon.
Its now at the stage where having to replace discs and calipers, but really thats all thats had to be replaced.
No rust and no signs of rusting currently. Handling is great, the 140 is a little slow, i would definatley get the 190, you will only regret it.
They do tend to use a little oil after 85k, seems to be a VVTli engine thing. I would highly recommend one!
Thanks for the reply, very helpful!Its got 120k on it, done 50k or so in past 3 years. Its a fantastic car and doesnt show any signs of dying anytime soon.
Its now at the stage where having to replace discs and calipers, but really thats all thats had to be replaced.
No rust and no signs of rusting currently. Handling is great, the 140 is a little slow, i would definatley get the 190, you will only regret it.
They do tend to use a little oil after 85k, seems to be a VVTli engine thing. I would highly recommend one!
Jonboy_t said:
Chris_w666 said:
I've been looking at 03 models, are there any main differences between pre facelift ones? I know the earlier ones had more issues with oil burning.
What are the Black Diamond combi grooved/drilled disks like when it comes to brakes? They seem to have a good writeup and they're what I've been looking at lately. But I've also heard bad things about drilled disks....
What are the Black Diamond combi grooved/drilled disks like when it comes to brakes? They seem to have a good writeup and they're what I've been looking at lately. But I've also heard bad things about drilled disks....
Edited by Louisa911 on Thursday 25th March 13:40
Louisa911 said:
I've been looking at 03 models, are there any main differences between pre facelift ones? I know the earlier ones had more issues with oil burning.
What are the Black Diamond combi grooved/drilled disks like when it comes to brakes? They seem to have a good writeup and they're what I've been looking at lately. But I've also heard bad things about drilled disks....
It's the earlier 140s that have the oil burning issues, it doesn't affect the 190 engine.What are the Black Diamond combi grooved/drilled disks like when it comes to brakes? They seem to have a good writeup and they're what I've been looking at lately. But I've also heard bad things about drilled disks....
Edited by Louisa911 on Thursday 25th March 13:40
Definitely go for the 190 - revving the engine out to 8250rpm is something pretty special.
Hello OP
I own a 2001 190. There is only one choice. The 190 has same fuel consumption as the 140 does 40 mpg sat at 70. BUT has that wonderful second cam goodness for a bit of fun. Also the ore facelift 140 suffer from oil consumption the 190 does not
Regarding the gearing I agree it can be difficult to keep it in the powerband but practice really does make perfect. The plus with 190/t sports you get all the toys as standard. I have found it is a bit of a sleeper. Finally it's a god damn good looking motor what were the japs upto. It also by far the most comfortable coupe I have ever been in. I regualy do 250 mile drives I'm 6.5 and get out fresh.
Only one option the 190
I own a 2001 190. There is only one choice. The 190 has same fuel consumption as the 140 does 40 mpg sat at 70. BUT has that wonderful second cam goodness for a bit of fun. Also the ore facelift 140 suffer from oil consumption the 190 does not
Regarding the gearing I agree it can be difficult to keep it in the powerband but practice really does make perfect. The plus with 190/t sports you get all the toys as standard. I have found it is a bit of a sleeper. Finally it's a god damn good looking motor what were the japs upto. It also by far the most comfortable coupe I have ever been in. I regualy do 250 mile drives I'm 6.5 and get out fresh.
Only one option the 190
ScottishSamurai said:
Jayho said:
If you dont mind going a bit older and a bit overbudget, maybe consider a dc2 Integra Type R? Got a mate and she's had one, one word when watching her drive, Sex on top of sexy covered in sexy sauce!
Insurance would be a killer I imagine?Hmmm.
I have had the pleasure of running a Celica 190 for a couple of weeks a month or so ago.
It's a good car overall. The engine is pretty exciting. the handling is OK as in it's not flawed, but it feels wooden and IMHO everything about the car is pretty fair to middling except the engine.
BUT. and it's a big one. You can't use it. The Cam lift (6.5K revs!) just kicks in too high. Changing gear at anything other than a rev limiter bashing engine speed drops it below the lift due to the gearing then you're chasing the cam lift again. Cam lift in 3rd is past the NSL for B roads, the cam lift in 3rd is past 70mph. I got it to lift in 4th but was in ban territory on the motorway! Sounds great though, very motorbikey if that's your thing.
The gearing is far, far too long for our roads and the torque delivery of the engine. 1st-3rd are stupid long but there seems to be very little difference between 4th&5th and 6th 'cruises' on the motoway at over 4.5k revs! So the bottom of the box is too long the top too short.
Obviously it looks great on the outside and does get attention, but sometimes the wrong sort (read chavs racing you and Porsche owners proving a point). Interior os OK but quite dull TBH, although the seat is great.
I enjoyed my time with it, but was glad to give back after 2 weeks (i drove it ALOT!!!). Fast, but frustrating drivetrain. So-so handling was a turn off. On the evidience of what the 190 was like I would never entertain a 140, although having a less frustrating engine may be better for it, try both and see.
I have since bought my current car, which I prefer as it suits me better in every area. And the Twinspark engine lifts at 3K not 6.5!!!
Hope thins helps
I have had the pleasure of running a Celica 190 for a couple of weeks a month or so ago.
It's a good car overall. The engine is pretty exciting. the handling is OK as in it's not flawed, but it feels wooden and IMHO everything about the car is pretty fair to middling except the engine.
BUT. and it's a big one. You can't use it. The Cam lift (6.5K revs!) just kicks in too high. Changing gear at anything other than a rev limiter bashing engine speed drops it below the lift due to the gearing then you're chasing the cam lift again. Cam lift in 3rd is past the NSL for B roads, the cam lift in 3rd is past 70mph. I got it to lift in 4th but was in ban territory on the motorway! Sounds great though, very motorbikey if that's your thing.
The gearing is far, far too long for our roads and the torque delivery of the engine. 1st-3rd are stupid long but there seems to be very little difference between 4th&5th and 6th 'cruises' on the motoway at over 4.5k revs! So the bottom of the box is too long the top too short.
Obviously it looks great on the outside and does get attention, but sometimes the wrong sort (read chavs racing you and Porsche owners proving a point). Interior os OK but quite dull TBH, although the seat is great.
I enjoyed my time with it, but was glad to give back after 2 weeks (i drove it ALOT!!!). Fast, but frustrating drivetrain. So-so handling was a turn off. On the evidience of what the 190 was like I would never entertain a 140, although having a less frustrating engine may be better for it, try both and see.
I have since bought my current car, which I prefer as it suits me better in every area. And the Twinspark engine lifts at 3K not 6.5!!!
Hope thins helps
Louisa911 said:
ScottishSamurai said:
Jayho said:
If you dont mind going a bit older and a bit overbudget, maybe consider a dc2 Integra Type R? Got a mate and she's had one, one word when watching her drive, Sex on top of sexy covered in sexy sauce!
Insurance would be a killer I imagine?They are a hoot to drive, but then again like with most japanese cars they're a bit rev hungry... Is that insurance check for the JDM or UKDM version? the JDM versions a bit more power and a lil bit more sexy IMO, plus its imports which get treated well in japan and come over fully inspected and undersealed.
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