The AP 4 pot setup 308mm discs etc
Discussion
What sort of power are you running? General consensus seems to be OEM with decent pads are fine for regular cars and use. Plenty LOT racers use normal calipers. Certainly a nice upgrade but depends a lot on the cars use I think. Mine with PF97 pads and decent flluid will almost put you through the windscreen when warmed up.
Its a VX220 so 150bhp so not a lot by any standard, one day it'll go to 210bhp with a supercharger. Its my daily driver road use. It's not something I'd really thought about doing but been offered a full new kit, 308mmx26mm alloy belled discs, calipers, lines, pads etc for £1100+vat, so about £300 cheaper than the cheapest I've seen it advertised.
Honestly, IMHO, waste of time. I'm in an NA Exige so 190 at best despite the "upgrades". With PF pads and 'between track day' bleeds my car with move internal organs under braking. Decent fluid, a good bleed and pagids or CL pads and you are sorted. The big brake kits aren't normally even mentioned until you get to 260hp+
Save your cash for more power!
Save your cash for more power!
Herman Toothrot said:
Its a VX220 so 150bhp so not a lot by any standard, one day it'll go to 210bhp with a supercharger. Its my daily driver road use. It's not something I'd really thought about doing but been offered a full new kit, 308mmx26mm alloy belled discs, calipers, lines, pads etc for £1100+vat, so about £300 cheaper than the cheapest I've seen it advertised.
As said, the standard calipers with some expensive brake pads are enough for the LoT racers. But they tend to be a bit lighter than the VX220.I've got the 4-pots as factory-fit on my Exige, and they appear to be fitted at the factory with the expensive Pagid pads, which I always thought weren't road-legal and were more 'race' biased i.e. wooden as buggery when cold, tricky and squeally in town before they've warmed up, etc. They are nothing of the sort - they are quiet, powerful from cold, monstrous when hot, and don't bind to the discs as badly as the multiple different Elise / Exige / VXT I've had with standard calipers and all sorts of brake pads. Great feel through the pedal too, even when cold.
I will admit freely that I still have a fear problem with brakes, the main thing holding me back on track from being decently quick is that I don't trust my brakes and I'm not good at big stops from high speeds:
So the big AP 4-pots on my Exige are brilliant for *me* because they, like the big brakes on the 993 Porkers I've owned, look invincible (this is all psychological because I *know* the standard calipers are up to the job).
If you can get them cheaply, I'd go for it - the LoT racers *do* use standard calipers but on much lighter cars and with *much* more aggressive pads - pads that can be a little harsh on the road and *will* eat brake discs more frequently. Of course, there is the argument for standard calipers, but ally bell discs so you can swap the discs easily because you're running much more abrasive pads...
The only thing I'd look into (being an ex-VXT owner myself - I absolutely LOVED that car so no anti-VX bias from me - and I had Mintex 1144s fitted by Thorney to mine) is the duff 2-channel ABS system on the VX and whether fitting the AP 4-pots would unbalance the brakes to the point where the ABS system starts playing funny buggers. All of us (who've owned VX220s) have experienced the random-ice-mode hard pedal and it's not funny.
If you've upgraded the ABS computer to a newer S2 Lotus one then you shouldn't have any problems.
plipule said:
Herman Toothrot said:
I've sorted the ABS, I run the latest Exige 4 channel ABS module 
Can I ask how you get this done?
I put them on my Europa and they are a fair bit better. I was running Mintex pads before (which are better than OEM) and on a fast road run the standard brakes would fade. with the APs there is just no problem. However the Europa is a little heavier than an Exiga and tuned has a fair amount of power.
The other reason for running them is that they look bloody cool...
I also run the 4 channel Exiga ABS unit but mostly for calibration reasons as this is setup for 16" front rims where as the Europa unit is setup for 17" front rims.
cheers
C43
The other reason for running them is that they look bloody cool...
I also run the 4 channel Exiga ABS unit but mostly for calibration reasons as this is setup for 16" front rims where as the Europa unit is setup for 17" front rims.
cheers
C43
Interesting, seems to be one of those upgrades that those who have like and say is an improvement. Those that don't say is not needed waste of cash.
Owners justifying?
Or
Non owners justifying not spending the cash?
Most replies on the VX220 OC say waste of time, but most don't have them.
I find it interesting because when I got the car one of the most notable things on the forum was complaints of poor brakes. Loads of group buys on expensive pads and larger discs, braided lines which amount to about £900 on their own and plenty of people have done this, yet a full kit with 4 pot calipers for £400 more people say waste of time??
Owners justifying?
Or
Non owners justifying not spending the cash?
Most replies on the VX220 OC say waste of time, but most don't have them.
I find it interesting because when I got the car one of the most notable things on the forum was complaints of poor brakes. Loads of group buys on expensive pads and larger discs, braided lines which amount to about £900 on their own and plenty of people have done this, yet a full kit with 4 pot calipers for £400 more people say waste of time??
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Thursday 25th March 13:26
Herman Toothrot said:
Interesting, seems to be one of those upgrades that those who have like and say is an improvement. Those that don't say is not needed waste of cash.
Owners justifying?
Or
Non owners justifying not spending the cash?
Most replies on the VX220 OC say waste of time, but most don't have them.
I find it interesting because when I got the car one of the most notable things on the forum was complaints of poor brakes. Loads of group buys on expensive pads and larger discs, braided lines which amount to about £900 on their own and plenty of people have done this, yet a full kit with 4 pot calipers for £400 more people say waste of time??
Should be no where near £900. My VXT discs were cheap as chips, plus decent set of pads around £200, £70 for the braided lines, £50 for fluid (Most expensive stuff --- or one of) so no more than £500 and your done...Owners justifying?
Or
Non owners justifying not spending the cash?
Most replies on the VX220 OC say waste of time, but most don't have them.
I find it interesting because when I got the car one of the most notable things on the forum was complaints of poor brakes. Loads of group buys on expensive pads and larger discs, braided lines which amount to about £900 on their own and plenty of people have done this, yet a full kit with 4 pot calipers for £400 more people say waste of time??
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Thursday 25th March 13:26
Be interesting to get them, but better probably spending more money once pads/lines uprated on the suspension upgrades.
Plenty of money to spend if you want to / and depends on your preferences
Edited by Stu_00 on Thursday 25th March 13:34
It's all about the increased benefit and return for your money. Good brakes will make you go faster and good brakes for a lotus are standard calipers and discs with decent pads, ie. £200. At a guess I'd say my brakes are now twice as effective as OEM so 100% increase for £200 = £2 per 1%
Excellent brakes will make you faster and (I am guessing) I'd say 4 pots are 50% better again so 150% over OEM. So thats (a very cheap) £900 for 150% or £6 per 1%.
Then you have to weigh up if you will make use of that extra 50% and how much it is worth to you. For me the cost difference of about £1K is better spent on other things like suspension which will make me faster again.
If you want them go for it. It won't do any harm but as already said, a *very* "nice to have" and rarely a necessity.
Excellent brakes will make you faster and (I am guessing) I'd say 4 pots are 50% better again so 150% over OEM. So thats (a very cheap) £900 for 150% or £6 per 1%.
Then you have to weigh up if you will make use of that extra 50% and how much it is worth to you. For me the cost difference of about £1K is better spent on other things like suspension which will make me faster again.
If you want them go for it. It won't do any harm but as already said, a *very* "nice to have" and rarely a necessity.
It's not just a simple fit 4 pots/larger discs/braided hoses/new fluid & away you go. You'll need to change the brake master cylinder to the Motorsport one, otherwise the brake pedal will be "soft", especially on track.
I'd recommend fitting decent pads, & braided hoses as a first step, before spending dosh on a 4 pot set up.
I'd recommend fitting decent pads, & braided hoses as a first step, before spending dosh on a 4 pot set up.
Stu_00 said:
Herman Toothrot said:
Interesting, seems to be one of those upgrades that those who have like and say is an improvement. Those that don't say is not needed waste of cash.
Owners justifying?
Or
Non owners justifying not spending the cash?
Most replies on the VX220 OC say waste of time, but most don't have them.
I find it interesting because when I got the car one of the most notable things on the forum was complaints of poor brakes. Loads of group buys on expensive pads and larger discs, braided lines which amount to about £900 on their own and plenty of people have done this, yet a full kit with 4 pot calipers for £400 more people say waste of time??
Should be no where near £900. My VXT discs were cheap as chips, plus decent set of pads around £200, £70 for the braided lines, £50 for fluid (Most expensive stuff --- or one of) so no more than £500 and your done...Owners justifying?
Or
Non owners justifying not spending the cash?
Most replies on the VX220 OC say waste of time, but most don't have them.
I find it interesting because when I got the car one of the most notable things on the forum was complaints of poor brakes. Loads of group buys on expensive pads and larger discs, braided lines which amount to about £900 on their own and plenty of people have done this, yet a full kit with 4 pot calipers for £400 more people say waste of time??
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Thursday 25th March 13:26
Be interesting to get them, but better probably spending more money once pads/lines uprated on the suspension upgrades.
Plenty of money to spend if you want to / and depends on your preferences
Edited by Stu_00 on Thursday 25th March 13:34
you need tyre grip to gain the benefit of the big brakes ...so unless you are running A048s semi slicks on warm summers day, the extra braking capability they give will be limited by how fast you lock the standard tyres up
I did have the big brake kit on my SC honda Elise ...braking down from 150mph repeatedly on track, they were awesome, and worth the money IMO
on the road they were overkill - you just get less pedal effort for more braking power, thats about the only benefit I can think of for a road car on road tyres
I did have the big brake kit on my SC honda Elise ...braking down from 150mph repeatedly on track, they were awesome, and worth the money IMO
on the road they were overkill - you just get less pedal effort for more braking power, thats about the only benefit I can think of for a road car on road tyres
bogie said:
you need tyre grip to gain the benefit of the big brakes ...so unless you are running A048s semi slicks on warm summers day, the extra braking capability they give will be limited by how fast you lock the standard tyres up
I did have the big brake kit on my SC honda Elise ...braking down from 150mph repeatedly on track, they were awesome, and worth the money IMO
on the road they were overkill - you just get less pedal effort for more braking power, thats about the only benefit I can think of for a road car on road tyres
Ahh yes Bogie that is probably the text book answer we have been looking for I did have the big brake kit on my SC honda Elise ...braking down from 150mph repeatedly on track, they were awesome, and worth the money IMO
on the road they were overkill - you just get less pedal effort for more braking power, thats about the only benefit I can think of for a road car on road tyres
Stu_00 said:
bogie said:
you need tyre grip to gain the benefit of the big brakes ...so unless you are running A048s semi slicks on warm summers day, the extra braking capability they give will be limited by how fast you lock the standard tyres up
I did have the big brake kit on my SC honda Elise ...braking down from 150mph repeatedly on track, they were awesome, and worth the money IMO
on the road they were overkill - you just get less pedal effort for more braking power, thats about the only benefit I can think of for a road car on road tyres
Ahh yes Bogie that is probably the text book answer we have been looking for I did have the big brake kit on my SC honda Elise ...braking down from 150mph repeatedly on track, they were awesome, and worth the money IMO
on the road they were overkill - you just get less pedal effort for more braking power, thats about the only benefit I can think of for a road car on road tyres
ABS-tastic And then I have to drive my other car and frighten the hell out of myself the first time I try to slow it down (it is twice the weight, has nearly twice the power, but interestingly uses the front Elise calipers on the back of the car...)...
Well I've had an Elise on standard brakes, when I bought the Exige I liked the look of the AP brakes. They have unbelievable stopping power, far better than the standard set up, really confidence inspiring with no fade, however if you're just trundling around they can be a little bit like an on/off switch, especially when you drive it after the work shed. Not justifiying the outlay as it came on the car when I ordered the Performance Pack with it, which I only ordered for the extra power and tasty roof scoop! Brakes an added bonus. 
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