Automatic sports cars?!?!?!
Discussion
Right, just seen a Porsche 911 blasting up and down my road (brand new one in a 40 zone too!!!). Still, not here to criticise 911's specifically, but it made a strange noise....
Obviously the chap driving it "booted" and it changed down a few gears on the automatic, sorry Tiptronic, gearbox. I must say that an automatic 911 just seems a contradiction of terms. Why????
Ok, I can see the benefit of auto XK8/R's as they are cruisers. But 911's? Why, surely one of the most widely aclaimed drivers cars with a slushbox kills the thought of driving? Why oh why do manufacturers do this? I can see the benefit of a nice big 7-series or S class with an auto, but a sports car - madness....
Am I alone here in thinking that autos have their place, and it isnt on a sports car? Hope not. As they say on the O'level exam papers - benefits of automatic gear boxes on sports cars - discuss...
Cheers,
Paul
Obviously the chap driving it "booted" and it changed down a few gears on the automatic, sorry Tiptronic, gearbox. I must say that an automatic 911 just seems a contradiction of terms. Why????
Ok, I can see the benefit of auto XK8/R's as they are cruisers. But 911's? Why, surely one of the most widely aclaimed drivers cars with a slushbox kills the thought of driving? Why oh why do manufacturers do this? I can see the benefit of a nice big 7-series or S class with an auto, but a sports car - madness....
Am I alone here in thinking that autos have their place, and it isnt on a sports car? Hope not. As they say on the O'level exam papers - benefits of automatic gear boxes on sports cars - discuss...
Cheers,
Paul
Yuk, today i am in a mood. But I like that 71 Stang i am salivating on becuse he has 4 speed Hurst MANUAL gearbox. Automatic is out on a sportscar. Tipronic is out (Porsche and Audi). Selespeed is out even on Ferrari (ask testers). What remains. Good oool manual.
Certanly, you can't drive a sequential gearbox in every day traffic. Don't you ?
Certanly, you can't drive a sequential gearbox in every day traffic. Don't you ?
I agree that they have no place but its a personal preference thing isnt it. Tiptronic is a great laugh, but its a lazy mans manual, there are no real benefits that I can see apart from pretending you are driving a touring car as Tip in them is generally on the stick, not the wheel.
With regards to America I always thought it odd that you could pass in an auto box but leave the test centre in a manual!
If I had to have an auto to keep the Tiv then I would have one, but I would NEVER specify auto in a sports car.
Matt.
With regards to America I always thought it odd that you could pass in an auto box but leave the test centre in a manual!
If I had to have an auto to keep the Tiv then I would have one, but I would NEVER specify auto in a sports car.
Matt.
TVR made an automatic version of the Tasmin 280i. I bought one back in 1984 from a Merc dealer in south London who was selling it for half of it's true value.
Maybe you don't get many traffic jams in your part of Suffolk but an automatic can come into its own in and around cities like London. Anyhow, the main reason I bought it was to sell it on for a profit, but the following weekend I tore a calf muscle playing rugby and the auto was a life-saver as there was no way I could have pressed a clutch pedal for the next six weeks!
Maybe you don't get many traffic jams in your part of Suffolk but an automatic can come into its own in and around cities like London. Anyhow, the main reason I bought it was to sell it on for a profit, but the following weekend I tore a calf muscle playing rugby and the auto was a life-saver as there was no way I could have pressed a clutch pedal for the next six weeks!
Why this auto predudice?
Way back in the sixties Chapparal proved that an autobox did not prevent a good car from winning races. The Hobbs Manumatic equiped racing Elite proved that a big engine wasn't necessary to made an auto work. The Met police proved that automatic cars required fewer repairs and the multitude of Tiptronic, Selespeed and other selectable automatics provide sufficient variations to satisfy any craving for knobs or levers (or bells and whistles)and yet we all, me included, shy away from autos when we look for a sporty car.
Looking at F1 it is obvious that electronics, or fluidics, provide better control than flesh and blood and almost inevitably the 'benefits' will pass down to road cars. Most of the arguements against automatics seem to revolve around driver involvement, interestingly the same arguement was used by those resisting front wheel brakes, automatic advance and retard and mixture control and even electric starters. It would be interesting to revisit this thread in, say ten years.
I don't think I'd miss the clutch pedal other than as a device to enable me to bring the motor back on cam or into boost, nifty clutch control has long ceased to give me a warm glow.
Way back in the sixties Chapparal proved that an autobox did not prevent a good car from winning races. The Hobbs Manumatic equiped racing Elite proved that a big engine wasn't necessary to made an auto work. The Met police proved that automatic cars required fewer repairs and the multitude of Tiptronic, Selespeed and other selectable automatics provide sufficient variations to satisfy any craving for knobs or levers (or bells and whistles)and yet we all, me included, shy away from autos when we look for a sporty car.
Looking at F1 it is obvious that electronics, or fluidics, provide better control than flesh and blood and almost inevitably the 'benefits' will pass down to road cars. Most of the arguements against automatics seem to revolve around driver involvement, interestingly the same arguement was used by those resisting front wheel brakes, automatic advance and retard and mixture control and even electric starters. It would be interesting to revisit this thread in, say ten years.
I don't think I'd miss the clutch pedal other than as a device to enable me to bring the motor back on cam or into boost, nifty clutch control has long ceased to give me a warm glow.
I think a lot of the anti-auto is about control - with a manual, you have control over what happens, when the gears get changed, how quickly/slowly gear changes are made, when to slip the clutch etc........
With an auto you lose that control. Its very very unnerving to boot an auto into a roundabout, nothing happens for a few seconds (I know its not really that long, but its the delay that kills it) then all of a sudden the box kicks down and you lose the back end. Did that on a test a few months back, scared the crap out of the salesman - made me grin tho!!
With an auto you lose that control. Its very very unnerving to boot an auto into a roundabout, nothing happens for a few seconds (I know its not really that long, but its the delay that kills it) then all of a sudden the box kicks down and you lose the back end. Did that on a test a few months back, scared the crap out of the salesman - made me grin tho!!
Admittedly I haven't driven any latest generation autos, but those I have driven (shogun and Merc - neither my car I must add) didn't inspire me with confidence, I just couldn't get used to predicting when it would shift gears (a few close calls on junctions with the bloody thing not responding when I put my foot down, then kicking down and fishtailing!), nor did I like having to second guess the autobox when making decisions. They are very handy for pootling through traffic though...
quote:
Why this auto predudice?
Because is too easy. too boring. Surely its the challange and involment in driving that makes it fun. Down shifting and matching the revs by heel and toeing into a corner then flooring it out the other side whilst changing back up a gear - for me - is so much more involving/rewarding. Ok with a car with a good auto, I'd get though the corner much quicker perhaps, but would I enjoy it? - nah don't think so. And as for reference I've driven the furry 360 F1 box, and have to say I thought it a bit dull after a while - would of much prefered to have tried the manual with the clicks and clacks and all...
quote:
... if you've ever driven an American spec car, you'll know what i mean..........
You'll have to blame it on the Germans then, my Lincoln LS has a manual tranny sourced from Getrag...
Hey, it's a global thing these days, time to start taking cars one at a time on thier merits rather than on who produced it. I mean, if someone doesn't like a new Jag, do we blame Americans (Ford owns the Marque) or Britains (they build the cars). It's the individual merits that count, and all cars have come a long way...
...Which brings us back to the topic... Again, I find myself agreeing with McNab
. The Ferrari/Aston-Martin/Maserati/*whoever else* F1 style paddle shift transmissions, while a new thing, look quite good. As long as the actual gear shifting takes milliseconds, I don't see the problem. In fact it could be quite fun. Live out your Michael Schumacher fantasies anyone? By the way, aren't we the same lot that not too long ago were deriding the car companies for no new ideas? Seems we don't want new ideas, eh? Just a thought...
ErnestM
(flame proof trousers are on...)
Quite right Ernest. Where are we going with these Sports Car stalwarts?
Flat caps? String backed gloves? Scarf blowing in the breeze?
Oh, and another piece of equipment....bonnet straps - made of real English leather. Vital Sports Car component - absolutely essential for a quick pit stop at Brooklands...
Flat caps? String backed gloves? Scarf blowing in the breeze?
Oh, and another piece of equipment....bonnet straps - made of real English leather. Vital Sports Car component - absolutely essential for a quick pit stop at Brooklands...
I find the auto fitted to my Jag to be very responsive in sport mode it holds gears nicely and with the "J" gate its easy to manual select , its just a matter of getting used to it thats all , ok i would prefer a real manual but they dont make one , but this auto box is fine .
Oh yeah nearly forgot , finally nice weather , have been roof down all weekend first time this year looking for excuses to go out for a drive ahhhh summer
>> Edited by marki on Sunday 31st March 13:38
Oh yeah nearly forgot , finally nice weather , have been roof down all weekend first time this year looking for excuses to go out for a drive ahhhh summer
>> Edited by marki on Sunday 31st March 13:38
Hi all, new member here
I thought i'd write a note on my pet subject, on a light note whats the problem with auto boxes on sports cars? If you don't like it, don't winge on about it! just dont buy them!!!
Seriously though and to answer the question of why...
As someone who can't use a clutch and still enjoys cars I am bloody grateful that i still have something to aspire to as far as the odd sportscar/supercar goes.
I am fully aware that I am biased in my point of view but I am actually very dissapointed that you can't get some of the more driver based machinery in slushbox guise. I agree that the old 4-speed boxes can be bloody awful and would really put me off older japanese machinery (Supra, Rx7, Scoob)
As it stands I drive a Rover 25is with a steptronic box and although no ball of fire I enjoy it greatly the sequential box is a big part of this, due mostly to the added control and I am not looking forward to having to drop 2 gears in the future.
When I look at the list of affordable machinery I can drive none of the cars that really take my fancy (elise, teg, practically any of the hottest hatches...(shameless fishing for someone to prove me wrong...)) and even when a car manufacturer does decide to foray into the auto' market they feel the need to soften it up for us namby pamby auto drivers
(anyone seen the new EVO VII?) Sometimes I want the thing to shake my fillings out damn it!!!! thats the whole point
As it stands you are looking at pretty large chunks of cash to enjoy an auto sportcar so spare a thought for the minority as we sit around saving the pennies and geting by as best we can with whats available
NiM
>> Edited by NiM on Sunday 31st March 17:50
I thought i'd write a note on my pet subject, on a light note whats the problem with auto boxes on sports cars? If you don't like it, don't winge on about it! just dont buy them!!!
Seriously though and to answer the question of why...
As someone who can't use a clutch and still enjoys cars I am bloody grateful that i still have something to aspire to as far as the odd sportscar/supercar goes.
I am fully aware that I am biased in my point of view but I am actually very dissapointed that you can't get some of the more driver based machinery in slushbox guise. I agree that the old 4-speed boxes can be bloody awful and would really put me off older japanese machinery (Supra, Rx7, Scoob)
As it stands I drive a Rover 25is with a steptronic box and although no ball of fire I enjoy it greatly the sequential box is a big part of this, due mostly to the added control and I am not looking forward to having to drop 2 gears in the future.
When I look at the list of affordable machinery I can drive none of the cars that really take my fancy (elise, teg, practically any of the hottest hatches...(shameless fishing for someone to prove me wrong...)) and even when a car manufacturer does decide to foray into the auto' market they feel the need to soften it up for us namby pamby auto drivers
(anyone seen the new EVO VII?) Sometimes I want the thing to shake my fillings out damn it!!!! thats the whole point As it stands you are looking at pretty large chunks of cash to enjoy an auto sportcar so spare a thought for the minority as we sit around saving the pennies and geting by as best we can with whats available
NiM
>> Edited by NiM on Sunday 31st March 17:50
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