M3 to ....... which Lotus?

[Jon101]

Hi,

Have just sold my E46 M3 and want to scratch the Lotus itch I've had for years. My thought is either to start with something like a S1 111S (or some other "sorted" S1) at around the £10k level, or go straight to the Exige S at around £25k. If I do go for the S1 first, then I'll probably move to the Exige in a couple of years but the experience of working up the model chain sounds like it might be appealing as well as financially attractive.

I'm reasonably familiar with the Exige, but the Elise range is a bit of mystery to me to be honest, despite trying to do my research. The car would be a second car for weekend use with half a dozen trackdays a year so I was initially thinking S1 135 or S1 111S. I haven't really thought of the S2 because for the price of a decent one I may as well go straight to the Exige.

Anyone been through a similar decision, or able to give me some pointers on the range? Having seen the "what's the best Lotus" thread, I'm not wanting to open a whole can of worms, but would like some advice.....

[21TonyK]

Personally, having made the same move 3 years ago, I would go for an Exige S. I went for an NA car 3 years ago as at the time I wanted to get away from the "big engine" feel. Depends a lot on what you like/want from the car but I'd drive one of the higher power S1's as well. If you want an investment as well then S1 Exiges aren't losing money.

[wacattack]

If it's a weekend toy then S1 exige

[Scuffers]

wacattack said:

If it's a weekend toy then S1 exige

you won't get a decent one for that kind of cash.....

As a toy for trackdays etc, S1 is a more sensible choice, you will get a decent 111S for that kind of money and although it's ~25Bhp short of a 111R, it's also some 125+Kg's lighter.

[Jon101]

I know of the S1 111S with around 150bhp which is definitely one I will try, and I know there's a 160 which also sounds very tempting and worth a try, but what is the S1 111R?

[tertius]

Jon101 said:

I know of the S1 111S with around 150bhp which is definitely one I will try, and I know there's a 160 which also sounds very tempting and worth a try, but what is the S1 111R?

111R is an S2 (with a Toyota Engine).

[Scuffers]

Jon101 said:

I know of the S1 111S with around 150bhp which is definitely one I will try, and I know there's a 160 which also sounds very tempting and worth a try, but what is the S1 111R?

I would not look at a Sport 160 only because they are perceived to be worth more than the 111S, and IMHO they are actually harder to live with (engine wise the VVC is a better engine)

[braddo]

I reckon start with an S1 - that will give you the biggest contrast to the M3 by being sub-750kg (and a whole lot less refined!).

[Chris_S]

If you want something that's faster than your M3 then it's Exige S or Elise SC. Got to have the supercharger or it will be slower than you're used to. Unless that's not an issue for you.

Chris

[21TonyK]

Chris_S said:

If you want something that's faster than your M3 then it's Exige S or Elise SC. Got to have the supercharger or it will be slower than you're used to. Unless that's not an issue for you.

Chris

Agree with Chris. *if* you want something that feels as fast as an M3 on road then you need a supercharged car. Ideally an Exige S tweaked to 240hp. An Elise SC (IMHO/E) is not quick enough, I'm no driving god but I can almost lap one on track in an NA Exige. In a straight line an NA Exige does not feel quick at all, it needs a track to do it's stuff. For road use either a very light S1 with 150hp or a 240hp S2 Exige. Again, almost depreciation proof, a 190hp S1 Exige for £20K would be a fantastic toy.

[Tin Hat]

I have a S1 'super 160' a kit that Bell and Colville supplied from new, a great car that I have enjoyed for 10 years.

Be warned though, my car is very well cared for but in terms of refinement, it is a different solar system to my Audi - Coming from an M3, you may find any Elise feels like all of the bolts are loose! ( wearing ear plugs is a big plus for me )

I have often toyed with the idea of putting a Honda lump in it to boost the power, but one of the benefits of an Elise is that you can have bundles of fun below 100mph, your licence is therefore somewhat safer!

Hope you enjoy trying one!!

[mrh3113]

Yep - be prepared for a refinement shock. I went from an Exige NA to a Honda S1 and there is a big difference even there. If you are used to German 'quality' you'll need to re-adjust your sights. I loved the Exige, but with the roof off and earplugs in, the S1 puts a bigger smile on face every time I drive it.

A basic S1 111S 'felt' about the same as my NA exige. You may miss the power of the M3 (or you may not...) and hanker after something more quite quickly. If you can find a a nice Honda S1 then you may have the best of both worlds (clearly I'm biased) as it feels stupidly quick at first - even then, the horsepower fairies have been visiting and making it feel slower of late....

Quite a few people end up getting an S2 and then get a retro itch for an S1 subsequently...

[madmatt1985]

Coming from a point were a friend owns a E46 M3 a S2 111R (190bhp) will keep/pull away from a M3. after that a M3 will wind it back in. The S1 make good track toy if its only a toy. if its to be more than that go for a S2 2006 or new. ull also find the S2 exige is almost the same at the s2 111R. but the exige is that little bit more "hardcore".

[PJF 111S]

I agree with Madmatt1985, my s2 111s will just beat my friends M3 at sub three figure speeds , above that M3 is to strong , throw in some twistys and it swings back in my favour.

[GKP]

So, a 2002 V8 Esprit it is then.

[21TonyK]

My Exige doesn't feel and is not as quick as an E46 M3 in a straight line and thats with a tweaked ECU running a smidgen under 200hp and 980Kg fully loaded.

A Lotus might feel faster but in reality the numbers just don't add up. To be properly quick and comparable to a stock M3 in terms of power to weight you need 220hp, ie. and Exige S. Even then the torque of the E46 makes it feel punchier.

[Scuffers]

PJF 111S said:

I agree with Madmatt1985, my s2 111s will just beat my friends M3 at sub three figure speeds , above that M3 is to strong , throw in some twistys and it swings back in my favour.

with respect, no hope...

M3 will murder an Elise at anything other than 0-30.....

[fatwomble]

Scuffers said:

PJF 111S said:

I agree with Madmatt1985, my s2 111s will just beat my friends M3 at sub three figure speeds , above that M3 is to strong , throw in some twistys and it swings back in my favour.

with respect, no hope...

M3 will murder an Elise at anything other than 0-30.....

Having gone head to head with one up the straight at Odiham, I would be surprised if a 111S could get anywhere near. Stick a Honda in though and you have M3 beating performance.

[Jon101]

Thanks for the input guys. I loved my M3 and part of the attraction was the power (you've got to love 343bhp from a N/A 3.2 litre engine and a 8500 red line...), and therefore I'm pretty certain that I will end up with a Exige S (maybe with a few tweaks) sooner or later, but I'm kind of thinking it might be good to re-set my perspective a bit on the way - hence the S1. I know a S1 would not have the power, but I'm guessing (hoping) it replaces power with feel and handling? I would want something with some guts for sure and am certain that the standard S1 Elise (or S2 Elise come to that) wouldn't do it for me which is what got me thinking about something like a S1 135R or 111S. I'm not too bothered about the refinement compared to a M3, provided it adds something else to the experience instead.

Not sure that I'm making any sense but hopefully you understand what I mean?

[chevronb37]

Scuffers said:

PJF 111S said:

I agree with Madmatt1985, my s2 111s will just beat my friends M3 at sub three figure speeds , above that M3 is to strong , throw in some twistys and it swings back in my favour.

with respect, no hope...

M3 will murder an Elise at anything other than 0-30.....

True enough. My old man had an E46 M3 and now has an E92. I couldn't hope to live with either in a straight line, although I'd feel fairly confident if there would a few changes of direction thrown into this hypothetical race.