Rover 400 leaking coolant - only had it two weeks
Discussion
Hello all.
As some of you may recall I bought a budget petrol Rover 416 (V reg, 81000 miles) a few weeks ago from a small garage. I took it to my local independent garage to get it serviced last week and everything seemed ok. Based on the service advice I thought it was a good budget motor to see me through the next year or so.
I have noticed over the last few days that the engine coolant seems to be disappearing. I can't see a leak anywhere (there is no mayo-like stuff on the oild filler cap) but i'm not a mechanic so don't really know what to look for. The engine itself seems to warm up to its running temp within about 5 mins but it doesn't seem to go over the halfway point. I'm pretty sure it's losing coolant somewhere though as there is less than half an inch deep of coolant in the tank.
I've got it booked back in in the morning at the garage that serviced the car and they are going to check this out. So, if they do check it and find something major (e.g. head gasket leak or something) am I within my rights to take the car back to the garage I bought it from?
I know that you have 28 days grace on a vehicle (the garage owner informed me of this, and he even said he would give me my money back anyway if there was a problem) but am I still ok to take it back even though i've had another garage service it? When I say I want to take it back, this will only happen if the local garage find anything major tomorrow. And I would obviously entertain him trying to fix it.
I'm in a bit of limbo really as the car in general seems fantastic. The bodywork is sound (apart from a very small water leak in the boot) and it seems to drive ok. It would be a shame to have to return it because I think I would be hard pressed to find anything else like this near me for the money (it also has a year MOT on).
However, I am wary of coolant related problems on the engine and I don't want to risk it overheating.
Any helpful advice anyone?
As some of you may recall I bought a budget petrol Rover 416 (V reg, 81000 miles) a few weeks ago from a small garage. I took it to my local independent garage to get it serviced last week and everything seemed ok. Based on the service advice I thought it was a good budget motor to see me through the next year or so.
I have noticed over the last few days that the engine coolant seems to be disappearing. I can't see a leak anywhere (there is no mayo-like stuff on the oild filler cap) but i'm not a mechanic so don't really know what to look for. The engine itself seems to warm up to its running temp within about 5 mins but it doesn't seem to go over the halfway point. I'm pretty sure it's losing coolant somewhere though as there is less than half an inch deep of coolant in the tank.
I've got it booked back in in the morning at the garage that serviced the car and they are going to check this out. So, if they do check it and find something major (e.g. head gasket leak or something) am I within my rights to take the car back to the garage I bought it from?
I know that you have 28 days grace on a vehicle (the garage owner informed me of this, and he even said he would give me my money back anyway if there was a problem) but am I still ok to take it back even though i've had another garage service it? When I say I want to take it back, this will only happen if the local garage find anything major tomorrow. And I would obviously entertain him trying to fix it.
I'm in a bit of limbo really as the car in general seems fantastic. The bodywork is sound (apart from a very small water leak in the boot) and it seems to drive ok. It would be a shame to have to return it because I think I would be hard pressed to find anything else like this near me for the money (it also has a year MOT on).
However, I am wary of coolant related problems on the engine and I don't want to risk it overheating.
Any helpful advice anyone?
Why not call them and explain to problem, give them a chance to rectify in the first instance?
It could be major or something simple like a perished hose which is only leaking once warm or cool - or in transition between temps as well.
Things like that often are hard to spot.
One method for sussing things like that out is to put a fine sprinking of powder on key pipes, go for a run and see if any water appears.
It could be major or something simple like a perished hose which is only leaking once warm or cool - or in transition between temps as well.
Things like that often are hard to spot.
One method for sussing things like that out is to put a fine sprinking of powder on key pipes, go for a run and see if any water appears.
depends on your definition of a cheap car... if you paid couple hundred quid for it and it turns out the headgasket has gone then it *might* be worth you getting it repaired if you intend to keep the car a while (make sure the garage use a lotus steel headgasket kit). if you have paid nearer £1k for it and it needs work beyond a £100 on pipes/coolant tank/radiator then get your money back. a HG will be circa £500-600
dave
dave
Edited by aka_kerrly on Thursday 11th February 11:44
halo34 said:
Why not call them and explain to problem, give them a chance to rectify in the first instance?
It could be major or something simple like a perished hose which is only leaking once warm or cool - or in transition between temps as well.
Things like that often are hard to spot.
One method for sussing things like that out is to put a fine sprinking of powder on key pipes, go for a run and see if any water appears.
I did think about this, but as the car was serviced last week the local independent garage were the last to touch the car.It could be major or something simple like a perished hose which is only leaking once warm or cool - or in transition between temps as well.
Things like that often are hard to spot.
One method for sussing things like that out is to put a fine sprinking of powder on key pipes, go for a run and see if any water appears.
So, maybe I should cancel the appointment at the local garage and call up the seller?
Sorry if my post sounds like 'my car is leaking, I want to return it'! I'm not saying that, just wondered where to go with it as it was worked on last by a different garage.
Thanks.
I think you phone them and ask then make the decision whether to cancel or not.
Are you likely to pick up investigation costs from the current garage, whereas the dealer should look at the fault and rectify for you FOC.
It shouldnt matter it was serviced recently by someone else, unless they specifically worked on the coolant system?
IMHO coolant is one of those areas where you need to run a car for a few weeks before you spot patterns anyway.
Call them for a nice friendly chat to explain concerns then take it from there I would say.
Are you likely to pick up investigation costs from the current garage, whereas the dealer should look at the fault and rectify for you FOC.
It shouldnt matter it was serviced recently by someone else, unless they specifically worked on the coolant system?
IMHO coolant is one of those areas where you need to run a car for a few weeks before you spot patterns anyway.
Call them for a nice friendly chat to explain concerns then take it from there I would say.
aka_kerrly said:
depends on your definition of a cheap car... if you paid couple hundred quid for it then it *might* be worth you getting the head gasket done if you intend to keep the car a while (make sure the garage use a lotus steel headgasket kit). if you have paid nearer £1k for the get your money back quick as a HG will be circa £500-600
dave
Thanks.dave
I paid around £900 for the car, so an expensive repair would be silly. The reason i'm taking it back to the local indepedent garage is because they will give me an independent view of this. I'm not saying the chap I bought the car off is untrustworthy, but he could bodge a fix which would make it ok for a bit but it could go wrong again after a few months.
I think i'll get it checked tomorrow as planned, and then see from there what the outcome is.
Don't seem to be having much luck with cars at the moment!
halo34 said:
I think you phone them and ask then make the decision whether to cancel or not.
Are you likely to pick up investigation costs from the current garage, whereas the dealer should look at the fault and rectify for you FOC.
It shouldnt matter it was serviced recently by someone else, unless they specifically worked on the coolant system?
IMHO coolant is one of those areas where you need to run a car for a few weeks before you spot patterns anyway.
Call them for a nice friendly chat to explain concerns then take it from there I would say.
Ok thanks.Are you likely to pick up investigation costs from the current garage, whereas the dealer should look at the fault and rectify for you FOC.
It shouldnt matter it was serviced recently by someone else, unless they specifically worked on the coolant system?
IMHO coolant is one of those areas where you need to run a car for a few weeks before you spot patterns anyway.
Call them for a nice friendly chat to explain concerns then take it from there I would say.
I'll give the dealer a call anyway then, explain the situation and take it from there. The only problem with the original dealer fixing it is that he is an old(ish) chap and his repair work is done by a mechanic who works there a few days a week.
Edited to add:
The indy garage just did a general service so don't think they did anything specific on the cooling system.
Also, I am pretty sure i'll have to pick up investigation costs.
Edited by funkyrobot on Thursday 11th February 11:57
Firstly how much £ was it & as you say it was bought for a couple of years so this is true banger territory - sorry noticed the type of car so yes it is banger territory.
First things first until it is fixed everytime you plan a trip fill her up, then when you arrive check the level. See how much it is loosing.
it could simply be the Cap which has failed or a small hole in the rad or clearly HGF. Having had the Dire 1.4 Rover 214i Bubble shape with HGF & knowing that this is a saldly very very common fault if it sounds like a spade and looks like a spade it probably is a spade.
First things first until it is fixed everytime you plan a trip fill her up, then when you arrive check the level. See how much it is loosing.
it could simply be the Cap which has failed or a small hole in the rad or clearly HGF. Having had the Dire 1.4 Rover 214i Bubble shape with HGF & knowing that this is a saldly very very common fault if it sounds like a spade and looks like a spade it probably is a spade.
Welshbeef said:
Firstly how much £ was it & as you say it was bought for a couple of years so this is true banger territory - sorry noticed the type of car so yes it is banger territory.
First things first until it is fixed everytime you plan a trip fill her up, then when you arrive check the level. See how much it is loosing.
it could simply be the Cap which has failed or a small hole in the rad or clearly HGF. Having had the Dire 1.4 Rover 214i Bubble shape with HGF & knowing that this is a saldly very very common fault if it sounds like a spade and looks like a spade it probably is a spade.
Ok, thanks.First things first until it is fixed everytime you plan a trip fill her up, then when you arrive check the level. See how much it is loosing.
it could simply be the Cap which has failed or a small hole in the rad or clearly HGF. Having had the Dire 1.4 Rover 214i Bubble shape with HGF & knowing that this is a saldly very very common fault if it sounds like a spade and looks like a spade it probably is a spade.
Could you be so kind as to let me know what to fill the coolant tank with? I know it has to be proper coolant (not just tap water), but which is the best stuff? And, how do you mix it properly?
I did notice the other night a sort of hight pressure/whistling noise when I popped the bonnet after my journey home. I tightened the coolant tank lid more and it seemed to stop. There is also a slight whistling sound from the engine at low rev ranges (which rises and falls in pitch with the revs). So maybe there is a small hole or faulty tank cap.
Oh well, we'll see what the experts say!
Gad-Westy said:
Could be one of a few things.
A leak down/compression test would be a simple way of dismissing head gasket failure.
More likely causes (given what you said) are a cracked/split header tank or malfunctioning header tank cap. Both would be a very cheap fix.
A leak down/compression test would be a simple way of dismissing head gasket failure.
More likely causes (given what you said) are a cracked/split header tank or malfunctioning header tank cap. Both would be a very cheap fix.
That would be my 50p of advice too. You don't want to be risking the car overheating or since you don't know where the leak is coming from or how bad it is, if you suffer a sudden coolant loss, you could overheat the engine and then it's into dead car territory (in relation to its value)If you're a member of the AA with homestart, ring them saying the car has suddenly lost cooland and they'll do a simple test by the roadside.
Fire99 said:
Gad-Westy said:
Could be one of a few things.
A leak down/compression test would be a simple way of dismissing head gasket failure.
More likely causes (given what you said) are a cracked/split header tank or malfunctioning header tank cap. Both would be a very cheap fix.
A leak down/compression test would be a simple way of dismissing head gasket failure.
More likely causes (given what you said) are a cracked/split header tank or malfunctioning header tank cap. Both would be a very cheap fix.
That would be my 50p of advice too. You don't want to be risking the car overheating or since you don't know where the leak is coming from or how bad it is, if you suffer a sudden coolant loss, you could overheat the engine and then it's into dead car territory (in relation to its value)If you're a member of the AA with homestart, ring them saying the car has suddenly lost cooland and they'll do a simple test by the roadside.
I'll run it home tonight steadily and keep my eye on the temp gauge.
Well first & foremost make sure you have water in the engine so tap water is better than nothing + you already have coolant in it so some antifreeze already there.
So thats not an Ideal fix but its one that will certainly stop you overheating. You DO need to add antifreeze (halfords/Partco) otherwise in cold conditions water will freeze and crack your block.
A new cap is simple to change and it sounds like its the fault - the cap is there to increase the pressure so that boiling point is far higher less pressure/atmospheric pressure means it will boil over thus losing coolant.
Of course it could be a leak elsewhere however easy to replace parts & cheap to replace parts first.
So thats not an Ideal fix but its one that will certainly stop you overheating. You DO need to add antifreeze (halfords/Partco) otherwise in cold conditions water will freeze and crack your block.
A new cap is simple to change and it sounds like its the fault - the cap is there to increase the pressure so that boiling point is far higher less pressure/atmospheric pressure means it will boil over thus losing coolant.
Of course it could be a leak elsewhere however easy to replace parts & cheap to replace parts first.
Welshbeef said:
Well first & foremost make sure you have water in the engine so tap water is better than nothing + you already have coolant in it so some antifreeze already there.
So thats not an Ideal fix but its one that will certainly stop you overheating. You DO need to add antifreeze (halfords/Partco) otherwise in cold conditions water will freeze and crack your block.
A new cap is simple to change and it sounds like its the fault - the cap is there to increase the pressure so that boiling point is far higher less pressure/atmospheric pressure means it will boil over thus losing coolant.
Of course it could be a leak elsewhere however easy to replace parts & cheap to replace parts first.
Thanks Welsh.So thats not an Ideal fix but its one that will certainly stop you overheating. You DO need to add antifreeze (halfords/Partco) otherwise in cold conditions water will freeze and crack your block.
A new cap is simple to change and it sounds like its the fault - the cap is there to increase the pressure so that boiling point is far higher less pressure/atmospheric pressure means it will boil over thus losing coolant.
Of course it could be a leak elsewhere however easy to replace parts & cheap to replace parts first.
I'll top the tank up with tap water before leaving work tonight.
Your logic is very sound!
after you tightened the expansion bottle lid to stop it hissing have you run the car again?
now that the lid is done up tight run the engine for a brief period and feel the rubber hoses. if the hoses are rock solid and cant be squished then the system is pressurised which is a sign that exhuast gasses are escaping into the coolant system - HG failure.
A common trick with cars that have a dying headgasket is to leave the expansion lid undone slightly so that it vents the exhaust gasses an prevents the system getting overly pressurised. I have done this in the past an been able to run a engine with a dead gasket for couple of weeks whilst using 3-4L of coolant for a 5m journey - it is not recommended!!!
dave
now that the lid is done up tight run the engine for a brief period and feel the rubber hoses. if the hoses are rock solid and cant be squished then the system is pressurised which is a sign that exhuast gasses are escaping into the coolant system - HG failure.
A common trick with cars that have a dying headgasket is to leave the expansion lid undone slightly so that it vents the exhaust gasses an prevents the system getting overly pressurised. I have done this in the past an been able to run a engine with a dead gasket for couple of weeks whilst using 3-4L of coolant for a 5m journey - it is not recommended!!!
dave
aka_kerrly said:
after you tightened the expansion bottle lid to stop it hissing have you run the car again?
now that the lid is done up tight run the engine for a brief period and feel the rubber hoses. if the hoses are rock solid and cant be squished then the system is pressurised which is a sign that exhuast gasses are escaping into the coolant system - HG failure.
A common trick with cars that have a dying headgasket is to leave the expansion lid undone slightly so that it vents the exhaust gasses an prevents the system getting overly pressurised. I have done this in the past an been able to run a engine with a dead gasket for couple of weeks whilst using 3-4L of coolant for a 5m journey - it is not recommended!!!
dave
Yes, I tightened the lid on Monday evening and have been running it since then. When I originally bought the car the lid was on tight because this was one of the first things I checked when I got home.now that the lid is done up tight run the engine for a brief period and feel the rubber hoses. if the hoses are rock solid and cant be squished then the system is pressurised which is a sign that exhuast gasses are escaping into the coolant system - HG failure.
A common trick with cars that have a dying headgasket is to leave the expansion lid undone slightly so that it vents the exhaust gasses an prevents the system getting overly pressurised. I have done this in the past an been able to run a engine with a dead gasket for couple of weeks whilst using 3-4L of coolant for a 5m journey - it is not recommended!!!
dave
I'll check the hoses when I run the car home later. If the main one to check the one that runs straight out of the bottom of the coolant tank?
Thanks.
funkyrobot said:
aka_kerrly said:
after you tightened the expansion bottle lid to stop it hissing have you run the car again?
now that the lid is done up tight run the engine for a brief period and feel the rubber hoses. if the hoses are rock solid and cant be squished then the system is pressurised which is a sign that exhuast gasses are escaping into the coolant system - HG failure.
A common trick with cars that have a dying headgasket is to leave the expansion lid undone slightly so that it vents the exhaust gasses an prevents the system getting overly pressurised. I have done this in the past an been able to run a engine with a dead gasket for couple of weeks whilst using 3-4L of coolant for a 5m journey - it is not recommended!!!
dave
Yes, I tightened the lid on Monday evening and have been running it since then. When I originally bought the car the lid was on tight because this was one of the first things I checked when I got home.now that the lid is done up tight run the engine for a brief period and feel the rubber hoses. if the hoses are rock solid and cant be squished then the system is pressurised which is a sign that exhuast gasses are escaping into the coolant system - HG failure.
A common trick with cars that have a dying headgasket is to leave the expansion lid undone slightly so that it vents the exhaust gasses an prevents the system getting overly pressurised. I have done this in the past an been able to run a engine with a dead gasket for couple of weeks whilst using 3-4L of coolant for a 5m journey - it is not recommended!!!
dave
I'll check the hoses when I run the car home later. If the main one to check the one that runs straight out of the bottom of the coolant tank?
Thanks.
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