Discussion
I've decided to scrap (temporarily) my plans for a TVR and I am sick of Trains, so I am going to trade my Scooter in for a 'real' bike, but I don't know the first and last thing about them.
I was thinking of around 600cc and I will be doing about 80 miles round trip (M25, A2) into the smoke.
It seems 2-3 year old Sports and Supersports cost peanuts, any reason why I shouldn't buy a used one from a dealer??
Obviously I have to complete my DA first, but I should be doing this in the next 2 months.
cheers
Mags
I was thinking of around 600cc and I will be doing about 80 miles round trip (M25, A2) into the smoke.
It seems 2-3 year old Sports and Supersports cost peanuts, any reason why I shouldn't buy a used one from a dealer??
Obviously I have to complete my DA first, but I should be doing this in the next 2 months.
cheers
Mags
Damn!
A week ago you could have bid for my R6!
Very personal things, choice of bike. But consider Yamaha Thundercat (almost as good as the R6, less extreme, less insurance, just as quick!) or BMW F650 (well screwed together now) for economy, in the 600 bracket.
Mind you you can't go wrong with some of those mid-range machines. Tons of choice too!
A week ago you could have bid for my R6!
Very personal things, choice of bike. But consider Yamaha Thundercat (almost as good as the R6, less extreme, less insurance, just as quick!) or BMW F650 (well screwed together now) for economy, in the 600 bracket.
Mind you you can't go wrong with some of those mid-range machines. Tons of choice too!
Good solid reliable Honda CBR600 bomb proof but you will need to keep lubing the chain, they look half decent, can scratch at the weekends and have a bit of plastic to keep you vaguely dry !!! failing that a VFR 750 bit more money but a honda again and a bit more comfort (basically depends how lardy you are) or you could go the whole hog and get a courier special GP550 thingie looks like shite but takes the heated muffs, crappy fairing and is a shaft drive so just goes and goes 100,000 miles plus no worries.
Cheers guy's, The R6 was my fave, but I wasn't really sure about any others.
I have tried a few others for size and had some greif as I have long legs but the R6 was comfy.
I am going to take a look at a nearby used Bike place on the weekend, they seem to have sh1tloads of bikes including CBR600's, Thundercats and R6's. Some are only around 3K for a 3 year old bike which seems a bargain.
The MZ looks pretty good value as well, I will have to look for a local dealer.
Any idea's on insurance? I only have 1.5 years NCB on a 125cc scooter, I'm 30 and live in a quiet area outside M25. I pay £110 for the Scoot TPF+T
Mags
I have tried a few others for size and had some greif as I have long legs but the R6 was comfy.
I am going to take a look at a nearby used Bike place on the weekend, they seem to have sh1tloads of bikes including CBR600's, Thundercats and R6's. Some are only around 3K for a 3 year old bike which seems a bargain.
The MZ looks pretty good value as well, I will have to look for a local dealer.
Any idea's on insurance? I only have 1.5 years NCB on a 125cc scooter, I'm 30 and live in a quiet area outside M25. I pay £110 for the Scoot TPF+T
Mags
Did my DA and jumped straight on a Blackbird ! Not as stupid an idea as it first sounds, it is a damn sight easier to ride than the Kwak I did my DA on. Also - being a Honda it is utterly reliable, etc. etc.
I picked up mine new 3 years ago as a parallel import for under 6K, so there ought to be some corking bargains around. Not all bikes make sense as a parallel, but Blackbirds certainly do.
I'm still in one piece despite warnings to the contrary; one reason for this is that the bike deserves such utter and complete respect at all times that I've generally ridden in a fairly restrained manner.
Insurance isn't too bad, interestingly, the fact I have full NCB on my car counted for a lot with some insurers. Expect huge variations in quotations.
I picked up mine new 3 years ago as a parallel import for under 6K, so there ought to be some corking bargains around. Not all bikes make sense as a parallel, but Blackbirds certainly do.
I'm still in one piece despite warnings to the contrary; one reason for this is that the bike deserves such utter and complete respect at all times that I've generally ridden in a fairly restrained manner.
Insurance isn't too bad, interestingly, the fact I have full NCB on my car counted for a lot with some insurers. Expect huge variations in quotations.
I've got an R6 and although I don't use it everyday, my commute to work is a 60 mile round trip using motorways and it's fine !
My insurance is about £300 third party fire & theft and I'm 26 with three years no claims bonus and no convictions (yet !).
It's worth looking at the other 600's if you're going to be doing high mileages and want a bit more comfort, but for sheer enjoyment (or fear - depending on your viewpoint) the R6 can't be beaten (IMHO).
If you can wait for a couple of weeks it's possible I might be selling mine. Drop me an email if you would like any more details.
Happy hunting !
Paul
>> Edited by pdavison on Tuesday 26th March 11:33
My insurance is about £300 third party fire & theft and I'm 26 with three years no claims bonus and no convictions (yet !).
It's worth looking at the other 600's if you're going to be doing high mileages and want a bit more comfort, but for sheer enjoyment (or fear - depending on your viewpoint) the R6 can't be beaten (IMHO).
If you can wait for a couple of weeks it's possible I might be selling mine. Drop me an email if you would like any more details.
Happy hunting !
Paul
>> Edited by pdavison on Tuesday 26th March 11:33
With respect to more than one vehicle on insurance, my li'l bro has had two cars on the same policy for a while: previously a mk1 MR2 and a 1970 Land Rover, now the MR2 and a 300ZX. Not sure what he is paying now, but the MR2 & LR were less than 200 quid combined: cheaper than the MR2 on its own.
BTW he is 22, 6'4", single and owns his own house if anyone has a sister...
Jon
BTW he is 22, 6'4", single and owns his own house if anyone has a sister...
Jon
no offence like but all the recommendations for a first time big bike are rubbish!
sure they're all fine bikes - but to start 'proper' riding on an r6 or a blackbird is just stupid.
firstly, you'll never have the ability or bottle to ride the bikes hard after gently getting used to them. vastly experienced riders with a lot of learned skills on smaller, easier to thrash machinery have to spend time adjusting to this sort of bike.
secondly, if the insurance doesn't get you on these bikes the thieves will. all the 'supersports' bikes are totally nickable, and that also takes a bit of practice always remembering that some b*stard will nick it if you don't nail it down.
thirdly, you will have an off at some point in the next two years - it's pure statistics - do you really want to buy now that pristine r6 knowing (in all probability) you're going to wreck it next year?
If it was me I'd be a boring sensible twat and buy something intermediate - maybe a thundercat isn't too bad a choice but I'm thinking more a non balls out sports bike just to find your feet/arse - smash it up and buy the bike of your dreams next year, with all the credits a year on a big bike gives under your belt.
Of course I didn't do it like that but I spent alot of money learning that this would have been a better idea...
Just an opinion
ps I've owned a KR1, 5 gsxrs, and one r11gs in the last 14 years.
sure they're all fine bikes - but to start 'proper' riding on an r6 or a blackbird is just stupid.
firstly, you'll never have the ability or bottle to ride the bikes hard after gently getting used to them. vastly experienced riders with a lot of learned skills on smaller, easier to thrash machinery have to spend time adjusting to this sort of bike.
secondly, if the insurance doesn't get you on these bikes the thieves will. all the 'supersports' bikes are totally nickable, and that also takes a bit of practice always remembering that some b*stard will nick it if you don't nail it down.
thirdly, you will have an off at some point in the next two years - it's pure statistics - do you really want to buy now that pristine r6 knowing (in all probability) you're going to wreck it next year?
If it was me I'd be a boring sensible twat and buy something intermediate - maybe a thundercat isn't too bad a choice but I'm thinking more a non balls out sports bike just to find your feet/arse - smash it up and buy the bike of your dreams next year, with all the credits a year on a big bike gives under your belt.
Of course I didn't do it like that but I spent alot of money learning that this would have been a better idea...
Just an opinion
ps I've owned a KR1, 5 gsxrs, and one r11gs in the last 14 years.
Completely agree - I bought a 600 Bandit after passing my test. The good things about that were:
a) nicely segregated powerbands (a la Honda VTEC, 1-4000rpm = nice and easy, 4-8000 = nice for out of town and embarassing numpties, 8-12000 = goodbye 328).
b) adjustable rear pre-load: softer rear end inspires confidence for a newbie (settles into bends), stiffen up when you want some precision.
c) comfy seat and easy to balance.
Jon
PS couldn't keep the front wheel down, though.
a) nicely segregated powerbands (a la Honda VTEC, 1-4000rpm = nice and easy, 4-8000 = nice for out of town and embarassing numpties, 8-12000 = goodbye 328).
b) adjustable rear pre-load: softer rear end inspires confidence for a newbie (settles into bends), stiffen up when you want some precision.
c) comfy seat and easy to balance.
Jon
PS couldn't keep the front wheel down, though.
Tell that to the R1 I caught last Summer. He was getting his knee down a lot and was dead impressive to watch (titaniun sliders). Every straight he took off like a dingbat doing stupid speeds, I followed on the first straight and decided I couldn't be bothered. In total, I caught him up five times before he pulled over into a layby to look at the view.
I've ridden 'sensible' bikes and the brakes / handling just weren't up to the way I was trying to ride. Pretty scary stuff. Ever watch kids caning their scooter (especially in traffic) and you will know what I mean - accidents waiting to happen !
On a big bike (or in a TVR) I believe I learn by exploring my limits rather than those of the machine. As I improve, so the boundaries of the way I ride increase. It's nice to know there's always a big margin before I get to the ragged edge of the chassis or tyres and the machine spits me off the road.
I've ridden 'sensible' bikes and the brakes / handling just weren't up to the way I was trying to ride. Pretty scary stuff. Ever watch kids caning their scooter (especially in traffic) and you will know what I mean - accidents waiting to happen !
On a big bike (or in a TVR) I believe I learn by exploring my limits rather than those of the machine. As I improve, so the boundaries of the way I ride increase. It's nice to know there's always a big margin before I get to the ragged edge of the chassis or tyres and the machine spits me off the road.
quote:
no offence like but all the recommendations for a first time big bike are rubbish!
firstly, you'll never have the ability or bottle to ride the bikes hard after gently getting used to them.
quote:
It's nice to know there's always a big margin before I get to the ragged edge of the chassis or tyres and the machine spits me off the road.
I'm sorry but 99% of modern bikes have 'limits' way beyond 99% of riders, whether they have tuned motors or not. If you are saying that nothing but the ultimate sports bikes are suitable to 'learn' on then you're in a world of your own, imo.
The guy on the r1 would have been better off with a year on a 'sensible' bike, then perhaps he would have learnt something about his and the bike's limits.
Extreme geometry, power delivery and position makes these bikes fantastic to ride, but the worst to 'learn' on.
Before the original poster buys anything I recommend he reads Keith Code's 'A twist of the Wrist 2'. He writes some interesting things about 'limits', and what to do when you think you've reached one.
Element - totally agree.
'99% of modern bikes', all sportsbikes - definitely. But if you aren't on a sportsbike please be careful. I'm not just talking Harleys here, the all-rounders can be very scary if pushed and you don't have to push them that hard.
'The guy on the R1', although he was getting his knee down, the way he was overtaking into blind corners and across farm exits either indicates he was athletic but inexperienced or just didn't care. I prefer to believe he could have done with a bit more experience.
'Read Keith Code', top bloke. The technique features that the Bike mags ocsasionally run are also excellent. Read bike mags, lots of them, full-stop.
Plus - I guess my suggestion may be seen as irresponsible by many. They've got a valid point. The only defense I have is that we all learn in different ways and at different speeds. What I have done has worked for me and even with hindsight I still think I would be happy to do it this way again. It's the same approach to driving cars that I've been practicing for more years than I would care to admit and I trust myself not to go too far too fast.
Bottom Line - Mags, The other guys have a really good point and I support nearly all of what they have said.
'99% of modern bikes', all sportsbikes - definitely. But if you aren't on a sportsbike please be careful. I'm not just talking Harleys here, the all-rounders can be very scary if pushed and you don't have to push them that hard.
'The guy on the R1', although he was getting his knee down, the way he was overtaking into blind corners and across farm exits either indicates he was athletic but inexperienced or just didn't care. I prefer to believe he could have done with a bit more experience.
'Read Keith Code', top bloke. The technique features that the Bike mags ocsasionally run are also excellent. Read bike mags, lots of them, full-stop.
Plus - I guess my suggestion may be seen as irresponsible by many. They've got a valid point. The only defense I have is that we all learn in different ways and at different speeds. What I have done has worked for me and even with hindsight I still think I would be happy to do it this way again. It's the same approach to driving cars that I've been practicing for more years than I would care to admit and I trust myself not to go too far too fast.
Bottom Line - Mags, The other guys have a really good point and I support nearly all of what they have said.
quote:
How about a 400 (VFR/RVF etc)? Should keep the insurance down & as element says you'll probably turn into a better rider in less time.
Lurvly bike. Razor sharp handling and a great engine. Quite thirsty though....
If the battery goes flat on one of these then it will be trashed. Not sure if this is a general problem or something specific to the VFR 400. Might be best to budget for a new battery and a battery conditioner to look after it.
All interesting advice folks, thanks a lot.
I wasn't very keen on buying a new bike for the exact reason you mention, falling off. I dropped my scooter within 2 months of ownership, at less than 5mph on ice in my street. The thought of dropping (or much worse ) an R6 would make me cry;o)
I have been riding the scooter for 18 months and it too often leaves me a bit fearfull, its too unstable on corners/bumps/wet/wind, thats why I looked at a 600 first off. Also, As I mentioned earlier, seeing the price of 2nd hand bikes I would be stupid not to look at a 3 year old bike for 3 grand, my scoot must be worth at the very least a grand so I only need to fund 2 grand, not too difficult.
The reason I was looking at Supersports is purely the amount of M'way mileage, I assumed these would be better suited? am I wrong?
As for the book, I will be checking out Amazon, cheers for the tip.
Mags
I wasn't very keen on buying a new bike for the exact reason you mention, falling off. I dropped my scooter within 2 months of ownership, at less than 5mph on ice in my street. The thought of dropping (or much worse ) an R6 would make me cry;o)
I have been riding the scooter for 18 months and it too often leaves me a bit fearfull, its too unstable on corners/bumps/wet/wind, thats why I looked at a 600 first off. Also, As I mentioned earlier, seeing the price of 2nd hand bikes I would be stupid not to look at a 3 year old bike for 3 grand, my scoot must be worth at the very least a grand so I only need to fund 2 grand, not too difficult.
The reason I was looking at Supersports is purely the amount of M'way mileage, I assumed these would be better suited? am I wrong?
As for the book, I will be checking out Amazon, cheers for the tip.
Mags
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