Technique advice required
Discussion
Ahead of my USA road trip later this year, I bought myself a Canon SX200 recently - Its about as high up in the range as you can get without being a DSLR (12x optical zoom, wide angle lens, RAW)
I went to Autosport International today and am rather disappointed by my efforts. I know buying a good camera doesn't make you a good photographer but I could have done the same job with a disposable 35mm camera from Boots!
Here is a prime example
All I have done to that is re-size it in Photoshop but you can see it looks grainy and the colours are a bit odd.
The camera has the capacity to go into full manual mode but I went with "auto" and no flash.
The same camera produced this:
Which I'm much more pleased with but should point out that the lighting on the Porsche stand was a lot better than the previous shot.
I want to get as much practice in as possible before my holiday in May but could do with a few tips from the experts!
Any advice?
I went to Autosport International today and am rather disappointed by my efforts. I know buying a good camera doesn't make you a good photographer but I could have done the same job with a disposable 35mm camera from Boots!
Here is a prime example
All I have done to that is re-size it in Photoshop but you can see it looks grainy and the colours are a bit odd.
The camera has the capacity to go into full manual mode but I went with "auto" and no flash.
The same camera produced this:
Which I'm much more pleased with but should point out that the lighting on the Porsche stand was a lot better than the previous shot.
I want to get as much practice in as possible before my holiday in May but could do with a few tips from the experts!
Any advice?
Goochie said:
Ahead of my USA road trip later this year.....
Fantastic! Where to - I am envious already!Goochie said:
...lighting...
Ah! Well this might be partly down to the competing light sources (and colour temperatures) that your eyes can automatically cope with, but a computer cannot! Classic scenario under all those different lights at a show, and to some extent the best of kits will struggle unless you take over and stage the lighting that you need.Don't be tooooo hard on yourself while you're learning - and as you already realise, practice will build confidence in your own knowledge and skill as well as familiarity with the kit.
beano500 said:
Goochie said:
Ahead of my USA road trip later this year.....
Fantastic! Where to - I am envious already!Goochie said:
...lighting...
beano500 said:
Ah! Well this might be partly down to the competing light sources (and colour temperatures) that your eyes can automatically cope with, but a computer cannot! Classic scenario under all those different lights at a show, and to some extent the best of kits will struggle unless you take over and stage the lighting that you need.
Don't be tooooo hard on yourself while you're learning - and as you already realise, practice will build confidence in your own knowledge and skill as well as familiarity with the kit.
Thanks for the kind words!Don't be tooooo hard on yourself while you're learning - and as you already realise, practice will build confidence in your own knowledge and skill as well as familiarity with the kit.
Edited by Goochie on Saturday 16th January 23:04
Edited by Goochie on Saturday 16th January 23:05
If you're using a mac, in iphoto there is a white balance tool.
Select a section of the photo that you know to be white and it will colour correct the rest. Alternatively Windows Live Photo viewer can adjust the colour with a slider.
Neither are perfect, but should salvage a percentage of pictures in a few seconds.
If you have PSP or Photoshop the white balance tools are capable of much much more
Select a section of the photo that you know to be white and it will colour correct the rest. Alternatively Windows Live Photo viewer can adjust the colour with a slider.
Neither are perfect, but should salvage a percentage of pictures in a few seconds.
If you have PSP or Photoshop the white balance tools are capable of much much more
As you can see from the Porsche image your camera is capable of great results, the lighting in the first shot was a challenge.
The first image can be improved though.
The colours can be fixed with any photo software.
The grain is down to noise. There are several noise reduction programs available, most have a free trial.
Personnally I've found Noise Ninja one of the easiest to use.
The first image can be improved though.
The colours can be fixed with any photo software.
The grain is down to noise. There are several noise reduction programs available, most have a free trial.
Personnally I've found Noise Ninja one of the easiest to use.
Goochie said:
San Francisco, Yosemite, Lake Tahoe, Death Valley, Vegas, Grand Canyon, Lake Havasu, Palm Springs, LA
Well you can keep LA, but otherwise I am still very jealous - and I have done some of these.It's difficult to get a bad landscape shot of Yosemite, but, if you're not already familiar, have a look at some of Ansel Adams' fantastic work of the mid-20th century.
For daylight conditions, I think you'll find your camera does just fine.
For low light conditions, compared to many dSLRs the sensor's photosites are very small and have trouble hoovering up enough photons to overcome the ever-present signal-to-noise ratio. For these times you might just resign yourself to getting Noise Ninja or Neat Image or something for noise reduction. You can take control by not letting the auto settings boost the ISO level too far, use a tripod - a small one or a Gorillpod - because this will help in a number of ways. Not least of these will be making you take time and consider your composition.
Goochie said:
I went to Autosport International today and am rather disappointed by my efforts. I know buying a good camera doesn't make you a good photographer but I could have done the same job with a disposable 35mm camera from Boots!
Don't beat yourself up over it!Autosport/PH/MPH shows are the most difficult places to get decent pictures. In my opinion you chose one of the worst places to practice with your camera so don't be disheartened. NEC is a dungeon at best for photography.
The problems at NEC are:
1. White balance. The halls use tungsten lights, stands use different fluorescent lights, some use small lamps supplied by NEC, etc. Trying to get the white balance right is a nightmare, and can change from stand to stand. No two stands have the same lighting. So however you manually balance your white settings, the next stand can be totally different.
2. The place is so dark. If you are shooting hand held and have auto ISO the camera will be digging deep, hence you getting noise. The place is darker than you realize.
3. Composition on show days can be tricky because they are busy. People walk in front of the camera, give you no room. Tripod is your friend, if only because people respect the tripod.
My lesson for 2010 is that when I'm not outside is to shoot in RAW so I can sort the white balance out later.
Edited by tinman0 on Sunday 17th January 01:42
It's grainy because the light is low and your pixels are very small. Physics and all that. However the white balance issue is easy to fix because you can shoot RAW. One of the most powerful reasons for shooting RAW is that it allows you to change white balance *as if it was done at the time of shooting*. However you can't expect perfect results straight out of the box every time, no matter what camera you have - some tweaking is invariably necessary for best results. So you camera was doing its best within its limitations, and as mentioned, in a difficult environment.
The NEC really is a difficult environment for photography.
I thought I'd run one image through Adobe Camera Raw, just to see the difference with a quick white balance tweek: -
Perhaps I've pushed the WB too far in the wrong direction, but it illustrates the change that is possible.
Pete
I thought I'd run one image through Adobe Camera Raw, just to see the difference with a quick white balance tweek: -
Perhaps I've pushed the WB too far in the wrong direction, but it illustrates the change that is possible.
Pete
Simpo Two said:
beano500 said:
I'm not sure you can on a Canon SX200? (As ever, "Puzzled of Puzzle Corner" here!)As others have said, lighting is key to these indoor photos, and to get consistent decent shots in this environment, you would need some damn decent kit.
The other aspect of the first shot that I think lets it down is the depth of field, ie only a little bit of the shot is in focus. This will probably be because the aperture is wide open to let in as much light as possible because it is so dark, and as such you get a narrow depth of field and poorer looking shots. In that situation you could overcome it by switching to manual and pushing the aperture closed a few notches - which would probably just end up with dark or even noisier shots if the ISO automatically compensates - or just stick with compositions that have a narrower depth of field. If you get a tripod you could also play with longer shutter speeds to let more light in too.
It might be worth you playing with the camera in manual so you understand where it's limits lie - but don't forget that outdoors shots with plenty of light will more easily result in some great shots.
Light is a photographers biggest challenge, and overcoming it is what turns kit from being cheap and cheerful to mega expensive.
Good luck, and have a great trip!
Andrew
The other aspect of the first shot that I think lets it down is the depth of field, ie only a little bit of the shot is in focus. This will probably be because the aperture is wide open to let in as much light as possible because it is so dark, and as such you get a narrow depth of field and poorer looking shots. In that situation you could overcome it by switching to manual and pushing the aperture closed a few notches - which would probably just end up with dark or even noisier shots if the ISO automatically compensates - or just stick with compositions that have a narrower depth of field. If you get a tripod you could also play with longer shutter speeds to let more light in too.
It might be worth you playing with the camera in manual so you understand where it's limits lie - but don't forget that outdoors shots with plenty of light will more easily result in some great shots.
Light is a photographers biggest challenge, and overcoming it is what turns kit from being cheap and cheerful to mega expensive.
Good luck, and have a great trip!
Andrew
Simpo Two said:
beano500 said:
I'm not sure you can on a Canon SX200?http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
NEC AARRRRRHHHHHHH. I hate doing any jobs there. You never get good pictures.
But that doesn't help you.
So Here Goes.
The NEC has a mis of Sodium, Tungsten, Florescent and Day light, all of which have different colour balances/temperatures. The lighting is also very top lit.
You have two ways of approaching this:
1) Custom White balance and adjust your exposure (By over exposing) to help compensate for the shadow areas. The results of which are still never perfect due to the mix of lighting sources and the lack of fill light.
2) Use flash. This is not as easy as it sounds, because it adds yet another olour balance/temperature to the mix. You have two ways of applying this:
a) Single flash.. You need to expose for the flash and under expose everything else. The up side is that you get the correct colour balance/temperature. The down side is that everything else goes dark. This does not give you very good results with good background detail
b) Multiple flashes... This is the method I used where ever possible. I have been known to set up, upto 4x flashguns wirelessly on stands & brackets (Best done on Press Day) This way I am dealing with one colour balance/temperature and controlling the lighting. Always ensuring there is good fill light. It still needs some work with Photoshop 'replace colour' tool for the small areas of background where I don't have lighting control.
Hope that helps and don't be too disappointed with pictures at the NEC. I am always struggling there as a pro. Often at exhibitions there is a lot of Tungsten light and I set my colour balance/temperature to Tungsten and use a Lee (Flash to Tungsten) colour balance Gel filter on my flashgun. I have often had very good results. But the NEC has two many different light balance to use this method successfully in its simple form.
But that doesn't help you.
So Here Goes.
The NEC has a mis of Sodium, Tungsten, Florescent and Day light, all of which have different colour balances/temperatures. The lighting is also very top lit.
You have two ways of approaching this:
1) Custom White balance and adjust your exposure (By over exposing) to help compensate for the shadow areas. The results of which are still never perfect due to the mix of lighting sources and the lack of fill light.
2) Use flash. This is not as easy as it sounds, because it adds yet another olour balance/temperature to the mix. You have two ways of applying this:
a) Single flash.. You need to expose for the flash and under expose everything else. The up side is that you get the correct colour balance/temperature. The down side is that everything else goes dark. This does not give you very good results with good background detail
b) Multiple flashes... This is the method I used where ever possible. I have been known to set up, upto 4x flashguns wirelessly on stands & brackets (Best done on Press Day) This way I am dealing with one colour balance/temperature and controlling the lighting. Always ensuring there is good fill light. It still needs some work with Photoshop 'replace colour' tool for the small areas of background where I don't have lighting control.
Hope that helps and don't be too disappointed with pictures at the NEC. I am always struggling there as a pro. Often at exhibitions there is a lot of Tungsten light and I set my colour balance/temperature to Tungsten and use a Lee (Flash to Tungsten) colour balance Gel filter on my flashgun. I have often had very good results. But the NEC has two many different light balance to use this method successfully in its simple form.
You could argue that by correcting all the various colour temperatures back to one, then in a way you're not recording the scene as it was 
depends what you're trying to achieve I suppose.
My simple idea (I've never had to photograph cars professionally), is to take one RAW image as well exposed as possible, then make multiple derivatives with different WBs for the various areas and blend them together in PS. Not as good as Snapper7's answer, but much easier and needing less kit, so a better solution for the hobbyist I think.
depends what you're trying to achieve I suppose.My simple idea (I've never had to photograph cars professionally), is to take one RAW image as well exposed as possible, then make multiple derivatives with different WBs for the various areas and blend them together in PS. Not as good as Snapper7's answer, but much easier and needing less kit, so a better solution for the hobbyist I think.
Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 18th January 10:19
Although it may only offer limited help in situations with many different lighting temperatures involved; don't forget the humble grey card. I have a small, convenient WhiBal card that hangs on a lanyard around my neck. Always have it with me and try to remember to take "reference" shots for all lighting scenarios.
Ed_P said:
Although it may only offer limited help in situations with many different lighting temperatures involved; don't forget the humble grey card. I have a small, convenient WhiBal card that hangs on a lanyard around my neck. Always have it with me and try to remember to take "reference" shots for all lighting scenarios.
Do you mind explaining that further? I have no idea what you're talking about (other than a grey card hanging around your neck)Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff