Letting agents right to viewings during notice period

[chr15b]

Those who've seen my other post re: fire wont be surprised i've told the current letting agents we want to give notice. i know in the contract it waffles on about right to viewings in last month and 24 hours notice to enter, but...

the current agents have annoyed me for long enough, yet they are still managing to do it, today i got a smug (seriously i could tell she was using a smug voice) call telling me that there was a problem with answering the reference request they had received, the problem is they want £15 for the privilege.

so, thinking back i vaugly remember a letting agent telling me (whilst he was asking nicely to book someone in to view) that they couldn't actually enforce the right to view.. is this true? if so what can / should i say to stop short notice viewings?

they have no keys or alarm code.

i know it may appear childish and tit-for-tat but they have for long enough taken the michael, i dont see why they should have it all their own way and i should be put out to assist them.

[Wings]

You have a right to receive both 24 hours notice by either the agents/landlord of an intending viewing, and to request the viewing is a time suitable to your good self. Should you find they enter the property without giving you prior notice of the same, then you have the right to change the cylinder to the lock/s of the main entrance doors, again advising the agents/landlord of doing the same.

My previous post was not intended to be harsh, and I apologies if it came over as such. I was attempting to say that where one has agents/landlords that are not prepared to carry out remedial works, then the tenant should bring the tenancy to an early conclusion.

The agents/landlord may seek to take repercussion against you, possibly through a monetary deduction in any deposit they retain against your Tenancy Agreement, therefore, and whilst it is not in keeping to the wording of your Tenancy Agreement, you might consider not paying your last month rental payment, using, allowing the agents/landlord to use the deposit as the payment of the same.

[martinalex]

You have right to quiet enjoyment of your property. Neither landlord or agent have any 'right' to do 'viewings' at any time during your tenancy - regardless of what is stated in your 'contract'. Check out Landlordzone website - this very question is tackled in great depth, quite ofte. Also see Shelter and Citizens Advice if in any doubt

[chr15b]

Wings said:

You have a right to receive both 24 hours notice by either the agents/landlord of an intending viewing, and to request the viewing is a time suitable to your good self. Should you find they enter the property without giving you prior notice of the same, then you have the right to change the cylinder to the lock/s of the main entrance doors, again advising the agents/landlord of doing the same.

My previous post was not intended to be harsh, and I apologies if it came over as such. I was attempting to say that where one has agents/landlords that are not prepared to carry out remedial works, then the tenant should bring the tenancy to an early conclusion.

The agents/landlord may seek to take repercussion against you, possibly through a monetary deduction in any deposit they retain against your Tenancy Agreement, therefore, and whilst it is not in keeping to the wording of your Tenancy Agreement, you might consider not paying your last month rental payment, using, allowing the agents/landlord to use the deposit as the payment of the same.

no worries, got what you were trying to get across, hence the smiley

unfortunately it's not as easy as Day1 fire breaks, day2 "you're not going to fix it, bye bye" for one thing moving is quite a challenge in it's self, plus i quite liked the house apart from the letting agents.

the only thing i've not done that maybe i could have is dealt with the house owners directly.

[Johnniem]

martinalex said:

You have right to quiet enjoyment of your property. Neither landlord or agent have any 'right' to do 'viewings' at any time during your tenancy - regardless of what is stated in your 'contract'. Check out Landlordzone website - this very question is tackled in great depth, quite ofte. Also see Shelter and Citizens Advice if in any doubt

You are right that most landlords covenants include the right to quiet enjoyment. I am not sure that if someone has signed a contract (tenancy, licence, or otherwise) that states that he shall allow the landlord or his agents access subject to reasonable (or a specific) notice period, that he can refuse entry. In commercial property leases there are such covenants and they are enforceable. There is no benefit in advising someone to do something like refusing entry if it just compounds the problem that currently exists between the two parties. Most people sign leases without really reading them properly or even remembering what is in them. It is a sad fact, but true.

[chr15b]

Johnniem said:

martinalex said:

You have right to quiet enjoyment of your property. Neither landlord or agent have any 'right' to do 'viewings' at any time during your tenancy - regardless of what is stated in your 'contract'. Check out Landlordzone website - this very question is tackled in great depth, quite ofte. Also see Shelter and Citizens Advice if in any doubt

You are right that most landlords covenants include the right to quiet enjoyment. I am not sure that if someone has signed a contract (tenancy, licence, or otherwise) that states that he shall allow the landlord or his agents access subject to reasonable (or a specific) notice period, that he can refuse entry. In commercial property leases there are such covenants and they are enforceable. There is no benefit in advising someone to do something like refusing entry if it just compounds the problem that currently exists between the two parties. Most people sign leases without really reading them properly or even remembering what is in them. It is a sad fact, but true.

i fully read the lease, and mostly understand it, my understanding in a lot of cases differs from theirs.

ie, i understand that it's in the lease that the rent must be paid calendar monthly by cleared funds on a specific date. i understand this is important because it is listed as an item to set expectations of what will happen during the term of the tennancy.

i also understand that there is a clause in there allowing access to the landlords or their agents at 24 hours notice. the agents read this as they can use this to do regular (every three months) internal inspections of the property.

now this is where our expectations of the lease differ, i'd expect that something that happens in a fixed cycle (such as the rent payment) would be listed as an item on the agreement. they believe they can invoke the 24 hour notice to do this.

i'd like to say this cat and mouse game has been great fun, infact it's been a bloody tiring two year battle, all i want is to pay my rent and live in peace.

[Piglet]

I'd just be difficult about it! We managed to get our LL to stop doing viewings by accident!

Firstly make the place untidy - we had pulled all the stuff out of the garage and the dining room to sort out and then OH was off looking after my Dad so it all looked really cluttered and awful.

Then I had a hissy fit about the agents inability to lock the front door. We had three locks - the yale, that was easy, a 3 lever mortice deadlock that had been on there when we moved in and a 5 lever mortice deadlock that our insurers had insisted was fitted and used at all times (we fitted the new lock ourselves with the LL's consent and they/the agent had keys).

We stressed to the LL that we didn't care what else they did or didn't do but the agents must relock the 5 lever mortice deadlock or our insurance was invalid, our LL was very good and I know that she told the agents this and I had the same conversation with the LL when they arranged the first viewing.

After the first viewing I returned to the house to discover that the agent hadn't set the alarm properly as they left (armed it but not shut the downstairs doors as they had been told) so the alarm flasher outside was going off and they and hadn't managed to lock either of the mortice locks.

I had such a hissy fit about it that the LL decided it was better to wait until we were gone.

As LL I've never tried to let with a tenant in situ. I don't think it allows you to show the property at it's best and you are at risk of your tenant living in squalor and being difficult.

[Wings]

Piglet said:

I'd just be difficult about it! We managed to get our LL to stop doing viewings by accident!

Firstly make the place untidy - we had pulled all the stuff out of the garage and the dining room to sort out and then OH was off looking after my Dad so it all looked really cluttered and awful.

Then I had a hissy fit about the agents inability to lock the front door. We had three locks - the yale, that was easy, a 3 lever mortice deadlock that had been on there when we moved in and a 5 lever mortice deadlock that our insurers had insisted was fitted and used at all times (we fitted the new lock ourselves with the LL's consent and they/the agent had keys).

We stressed to the LL that we didn't care what else they did or didn't do but the agents must relock the 5 lever mortice deadlock or our insurance was invalid, our LL was very good and I know that she told the agents this and I had the same conversation with the LL when they arranged the first viewing.

After the first viewing I returned to the house to discover that the agent hadn't set the alarm properly as they left (armed it but not shut the downstairs doors as they had been told) so the alarm flasher outside was going off and they and hadn't managed to lock either of the mortice locks.

I had such a hissy fit about it that the LL decided it was better to wait until we were gone.

As LL I've never tried to let with a tenant in situ. I don't think it allows you to show the property at it's best and you are at risk of your tenant living in squalor and being difficult.

I do remember your situation with the LA and your hissy fit that followed, squalor and other reasons best not put on a public forum (did i ever tell you about your once local LA using my flat one lunch time, filth) why one should wait before showing potential tenants around a property.

[charliedaker]

I think its great if my tenants can oblige and show let ppl view but i totally understand if they dont and just factor it in to the costs of letting a flat out. I dont see why any Lanlord should feel differently about it but i know some of them are bloody interfering. I NEVER go round and bother the tenatns about anything unless they request me to do this. IMO its common decency and has resulted in some long term lets. AFAIK i cant legally ask them to do this anyway.

[Wings]

charliedaker said:

I think its great if my tenants can oblige and show let ppl view but i totally understand if they dont and just factor it in to the costs of letting a flat out. I dont see why any Lanlord should feel differently about it but i know some of them are bloody interfering. I NEVER go round and bother the tenatns about anything unless they request me to do this. IMO its common decency and has resulted in some long term lets. AFAIK i cant legally ask them to do this anyway.

Absolutely agree with you. I do have some tenants who have no problem with me letting myself into their flat/house when they are out, which I do, although I do not like doing the same. My wife is more than capable in carrying out plumbing repairs, replacement tap washers, toilet, shower and bath repairs etc. etc., the same being a considerable help when female tenants are in residence.

Over 15 years of being a LL, I have only entered one property/flat without giving the tenant the necessary 24 hours notice, which was due to an emergency, leaking washing machine, water running into the flat below. I believe most LLs know their tenants, know which tenant will be awkward towards a lack of notice entry, and what tenant’s flat/house needs attention prior to showing a potential tenant the premises.

[martinalex]

Johnniem said:

martinalex said:

You have right to quiet enjoyment of your property. Neither landlord or agent have any 'right' to do 'viewings' at any time during your tenancy - regardless of what is stated in your 'contract'. Check out Landlordzone website - this very question is tackled in great depth, quite ofte. Also see Shelter and Citizens Advice if in any doubt

You are right that most landlords covenants include the right to quiet enjoyment. I am not sure that if someone has signed a contract (tenancy, licence, or otherwise) that states that he shall allow the landlord or his agents access subject to reasonable (or a specific) notice period, that he can refuse entry. In commercial property leases there are such covenants and they are enforceable. There is no benefit in advising someone to do something like refusing entry if it just compounds the problem that currently exists between the two parties. Most people sign leases without really reading them properly or even remembering what is in them. It is a sad fact, but true.

My understanding is that this is not an agreement for commercial property. There is statute law enacted which applies to this situation. No 'contract' can take precedence over statute law. If a party signs a contract with unfair terms there is a remedy in law for this. The party does not simply have to put up with it. There is also statutory law protecting the landlord's position in terms of inspecting and maintaining the property. There is no legal obligation to allow the landlord to conduct viewings during your tenancy - no matter what it says in the tenancy agreement. A tenancy agreement cannot override the force of statutory law.
Of course, you have to weigh up whether you are willing to instruct a solicitor/ use CAB and so on and all the hassle that this involves. If not, then you may find it less painful to reach an amicable agreement over when viewings are allowed eg. only on Saturday afternoons, only with 24 hours notice (so that you don't have to wait in on Saturday afternoons for no reason), only when you are present - does their insurance cover you if a viewer steals your property? And so on...

Edited by martinalex on Wednesday 13th January 12:31

[Piglet]

[quote=
(did i ever tell you about your once local LA using my flat one lunch time, filth)
[/quote]

Yes, IIRC you found the agent erm... "entertaining" their partner in your property