Buying a TVR as an investment ????
Discussion
Or better to keep the cash on the bank ?
I should say :
1-Grantura's, Vixens, Tuscans v6&v8, Grif 200-400 are definiteley good investments.
2-M-series & Taimars will go up very soon.
3-Wedges, only the big V8's like 400SE & up I recon.
3-S-series need some time but will go up.
4-Griffs..oh yes. Chims..I don't think so.
5-New Tuscan...definiteley
6-Cerbera....very difficult.....I am afraid not.
7-T350 & Tamora....will take some time but in the end Yes !!
8-Sagaris....No doubt about that.
9-Tuscan racers....No doubt about that too.
I should say :
1-Grantura's, Vixens, Tuscans v6&v8, Grif 200-400 are definiteley good investments.
2-M-series & Taimars will go up very soon.
3-Wedges, only the big V8's like 400SE & up I recon.
3-S-series need some time but will go up.
4-Griffs..oh yes. Chims..I don't think so.
5-New Tuscan...definiteley
6-Cerbera....very difficult.....I am afraid not.
7-T350 & Tamora....will take some time but in the end Yes !!
8-Sagaris....No doubt about that.
9-Tuscan racers....No doubt about that too.
A car is never really a investment come on look at upkeep cost over the years unless you store it away off its wheels in a carcoon perfect environment for years even then it will do it no good they want to be used seals and so on dry up and will cost you money over the years of standing up.
If your in it for only money making keep your cash in the bank if you want fun motoring for a few years and the car will hold its value not to badly if looked after.
Make money on a TVR who knows, with the state of our economy i dont see a big rush of people having a impulse to go buy a expensive to run sports car to drive the prices and demand for these up and the goverment are trying to do away with and go green.
Would not be me who bought one to make a investment on.
If your in it for only money making keep your cash in the bank if you want fun motoring for a few years and the car will hold its value not to badly if looked after.
Make money on a TVR who knows, with the state of our economy i dont see a big rush of people having a impulse to go buy a expensive to run sports car to drive the prices and demand for these up and the goverment are trying to do away with and go green.
Would not be me who bought one to make a investment on.
Edited by scotty_d on Wednesday 6th January 15:50
Bassfiend said:
Better to sink a bit of money into property - over time that *ALWAYS* makes a good return. (Forget the current short term blip in the housing market - that won't last.)
Phil
This is true,where there have been cases where cars have proven to be an investment over time,i doubt many were perceived as that before the increase,basicly its hit or miss whether tvr's will become collectable and more importantly wanted enough in the future for people to be willing to pay increasing premiums to own one..... lack of numbers are in its favour though.Phil
Buy them,drive them,enjoy them........ if they turn out not to loose to much over time,or even increase resale value,thats a bonus.
Cars as investments is not really on, even with such low interest rates.
However, there are aspects of ownership of some cars which make their ownership cheap and even cost effective.
A friend has an MGBGT that he reckons pays for itself.
No tax, ultra cheap insurance, and whilst it is less reliable than modern cars, spares are cheap and he's handy enough with spanners to sort most problems himself. Depreciation is zero and, the most important aspect from his point of view, he enjoys driving it.
He says it allows him to own a much bigger car, a petrol Range Rover, and keep the mileage down. If he had just one car then he'd be stuck with a compromise.
For him, the maths add up. In one way, if you look at the on-costs of, say, Micra ownership over a period of five years say, his way is much cheaper.
So if you look at TVR ownership and buy when the prices are about as low as they will get then lack of depreciation alone can limit costs considerably. Whether this makes it an investment or not depends on your definition of the word.
However, there are aspects of ownership of some cars which make their ownership cheap and even cost effective.
A friend has an MGBGT that he reckons pays for itself.
No tax, ultra cheap insurance, and whilst it is less reliable than modern cars, spares are cheap and he's handy enough with spanners to sort most problems himself. Depreciation is zero and, the most important aspect from his point of view, he enjoys driving it.
He says it allows him to own a much bigger car, a petrol Range Rover, and keep the mileage down. If he had just one car then he'd be stuck with a compromise.
For him, the maths add up. In one way, if you look at the on-costs of, say, Micra ownership over a period of five years say, his way is much cheaper.
So if you look at TVR ownership and buy when the prices are about as low as they will get then lack of depreciation alone can limit costs considerably. Whether this makes it an investment or not depends on your definition of the word.
Hmm, cars as investments... let me think....
Not all classic car investments work out as planned: in 1992, a Cardiff-based businessman bought a Jaguar XJ220 - which had a list price of £415,000 - and stored it away for safe-keeping.
Ten years later, the liquidators of Marlborough Carpets found the car behind a bricked-up staircase at the company's warehouse; it has just 11 miles on the clock. However, given that a low-mileage example of this limited-edition supercar fetched just £85,000 at auction in Geneva recently, this ultra-low-mileage car has been valued at just £100,000, according to The Times.
The XJ220 was the fastest production vehicle of its time, until the launch of the McLaren F1. It boasted a top speed of 218 mph and a 0-60 mph acceleration time of 3.8 seconds, thanks to a 3.5-litre twin-turbo V6 engine producing 542 bhp and 475 lb ft of torque.
It was intended to be Jaguar's answer to the all-dominant Italian supercars, but didn't really take off, and less than 280 were made. What a waste, however, to hide one in a carpet warehouse for ten years... and its owner didn't even get to drive it.
Not all classic car investments work out as planned: in 1992, a Cardiff-based businessman bought a Jaguar XJ220 - which had a list price of £415,000 - and stored it away for safe-keeping.
Ten years later, the liquidators of Marlborough Carpets found the car behind a bricked-up staircase at the company's warehouse; it has just 11 miles on the clock. However, given that a low-mileage example of this limited-edition supercar fetched just £85,000 at auction in Geneva recently, this ultra-low-mileage car has been valued at just £100,000, according to The Times.
The XJ220 was the fastest production vehicle of its time, until the launch of the McLaren F1. It boasted a top speed of 218 mph and a 0-60 mph acceleration time of 3.8 seconds, thanks to a 3.5-litre twin-turbo V6 engine producing 542 bhp and 475 lb ft of torque.
It was intended to be Jaguar's answer to the all-dominant Italian supercars, but didn't really take off, and less than 280 were made. What a waste, however, to hide one in a carpet warehouse for ten years... and its owner didn't even get to drive it.
Tough one. I've used this angle as justification both to myself and er in doors when buying cars although I think over short periods I've aimed at minimal depriciation rather than banking on gains, ( and just ended up enjoying driving the cars too much to worry too much about value anyhow ). Ultimately I think it comes down to timing. As previous posters have said, the cost of up keep will often equall or out weigh any increase in value, ( but even so a Tiv or any other toy used in this way is still better than any ISA! ). However if you can catch a car just before they rocket in value then you could get lucky. Look at 73' 2.7 Carrera RS, Ferrari Dino/Daytona, etc..These cars saw big hikes in value over relatively short periods of time, ( don't quote me here but in the porkers case I think at circa 40% in 2 years ). However they have in their favour several factors,
Age - Their predecessors, ( or other disireable models ), had in turn jumped in value. Of each brands line up these models were the next iconic models yet to come into vogue with collectors etc...( DB5's rocket, DB4's follow then DB6's ).
Model - Iconic,coveted,rare, models. If it was iconic and exclusive when new then chances are it will be heralded again at a later date.
Exotic - Lots of things in life will one day be worth more given the passing of time however like anything else in life, only the really desirable stuff is likely to become sought after enough to show substantial gains in value, i.e, an average picture by a crap artist ain't gonna pay off the mortgage even if it's the only one in the world.
I've heard people say that a good rule of thumb as to whats gonna be the next motor to rise in value are the cars that todays 40 year old, ( approx ), had on his bedroom wall when he was 15years old, ( approx ). Reason being when we're 15 we dream about owning a car and if we're lucky we can buy that dream when we start earning good money. Therefore todays 40 year old would have been 15 in 1985. If this formula were true, Countach, Testa Rossa, GTO, F40, Whale tail 911/959 etc..( SEAC? ), should all be due to start appreciating in the coming years, ( and the higher spec/most sough after will go first ). Looking at those models this seems to be on track as each cars iconic forebearer,( Muira,Daytona,2.7 RS), has seen a relitively recent increase in value therefore these models could be next in line .
Re Tivs I think barring ultra rare models, Griffs, ( both 60's and 90's ), stand best chance due iconic status on launch, rarity, and purity, etc.. but all that's irrelevant because unlike the owners of the aforementioned exotica, Tiv owners will not be able to resist driving their cars thus negating the increase. If you own a TVR you are a petrol head and no doubt bought it because of how it makes you feel when your out in it - and most likely driving it as Blackpool intended! The other thing to consider is that a £15k Griff going up 20% in two years makes you £3k but you might spend that on the car. A £300k F40 going up 20% in two years makes you £60k, ( granted you could spend that on it but I'm sure you could, if you wanted, moth ball it and have an annual service + a few carefull runs out and get away with spending £10k? ).
Unfortunately for me it seems the old addage, money makes money, can be applied here given some carefull buying. However for me being able to own/experience a TVR has been imense and worth more than any financial gain I might have made. My biggest concern is that I recently sold my lovely Griff500 in order to go racing. I have promised myself I will buy another once funds and garage space allow - I just hope come the day I haven't missed the boat and they've become financially out of reach!
Age - Their predecessors, ( or other disireable models ), had in turn jumped in value. Of each brands line up these models were the next iconic models yet to come into vogue with collectors etc...( DB5's rocket, DB4's follow then DB6's ).
Model - Iconic,coveted,rare, models. If it was iconic and exclusive when new then chances are it will be heralded again at a later date.
Exotic - Lots of things in life will one day be worth more given the passing of time however like anything else in life, only the really desirable stuff is likely to become sought after enough to show substantial gains in value, i.e, an average picture by a crap artist ain't gonna pay off the mortgage even if it's the only one in the world.
I've heard people say that a good rule of thumb as to whats gonna be the next motor to rise in value are the cars that todays 40 year old, ( approx ), had on his bedroom wall when he was 15years old, ( approx ). Reason being when we're 15 we dream about owning a car and if we're lucky we can buy that dream when we start earning good money. Therefore todays 40 year old would have been 15 in 1985. If this formula were true, Countach, Testa Rossa, GTO, F40, Whale tail 911/959 etc..( SEAC? ), should all be due to start appreciating in the coming years, ( and the higher spec/most sough after will go first ). Looking at those models this seems to be on track as each cars iconic forebearer,( Muira,Daytona,2.7 RS), has seen a relitively recent increase in value therefore these models could be next in line .
Re Tivs I think barring ultra rare models, Griffs, ( both 60's and 90's ), stand best chance due iconic status on launch, rarity, and purity, etc.. but all that's irrelevant because unlike the owners of the aforementioned exotica, Tiv owners will not be able to resist driving their cars thus negating the increase. If you own a TVR you are a petrol head and no doubt bought it because of how it makes you feel when your out in it - and most likely driving it as Blackpool intended! The other thing to consider is that a £15k Griff going up 20% in two years makes you £3k but you might spend that on the car. A £300k F40 going up 20% in two years makes you £60k, ( granted you could spend that on it but I'm sure you could, if you wanted, moth ball it and have an annual service + a few carefull runs out and get away with spending £10k? ).
Unfortunately for me it seems the old addage, money makes money, can be applied here given some carefull buying. However for me being able to own/experience a TVR has been imense and worth more than any financial gain I might have made. My biggest concern is that I recently sold my lovely Griff500 in order to go racing. I have promised myself I will buy another once funds and garage space allow - I just hope come the day I haven't missed the boat and they've become financially out of reach!
At best, values have firmed up for nice TVR's. They are a pretty safe bet for not losing a ton of value.
As an investment, I reckon you're talking at least 10-15 years before the market reflects this on selected models.
The great thing about TVR's at the moment is that for many, they can buy a car of their dreams and apart from regular running costs (barring real misfortune), could run the car for a year or two and have great fun and then get your money back.
As an investment, I reckon you're talking at least 10-15 years before the market reflects this on selected models.
The great thing about TVR's at the moment is that for many, they can buy a car of their dreams and apart from regular running costs (barring real misfortune), could run the car for a year or two and have great fun and then get your money back.
cantus said:
Or better to keep the cash on the bank ?
I should say :
1-Grantura's, Vixens, Tuscans v6&v8, Grif 200-400 are definiteley good investments.
2-M-series & Taimars will go up very soon.
3-Wedges, only the big V8's like 400SE & up I recon.
3-S-series need some time but will go up.
4-Griffs..oh yes. Chims..I don't think so.
5-New Tuscan...definiteley
6-Cerbera....very difficult.....I am afraid not.
7-T350 & Tamora....will take some time but in the end Yes !!
8-Sagaris....No doubt about that.
9-Tuscan racers....No doubt about that too.
You own most of the list don't you Mr long Kenyan I should say :
1-Grantura's, Vixens, Tuscans v6&v8, Grif 200-400 are definiteley good investments.
2-M-series & Taimars will go up very soon.
3-Wedges, only the big V8's like 400SE & up I recon.
3-S-series need some time but will go up.
4-Griffs..oh yes. Chims..I don't think so.
5-New Tuscan...definiteley
6-Cerbera....very difficult.....I am afraid not.
7-T350 & Tamora....will take some time but in the end Yes !!
8-Sagaris....No doubt about that.
9-Tuscan racers....No doubt about that too.
N
Well this time last year i had the money sitting in a savings account... in september i got my anual intrest... and i was shocked at how little was there... So i thought that instead of keeping the money there i would spend the money on a TVR and enjoy the money! So i bought a 1996 Cerbera last September. Spend some money on it improving it sorting little problems out.
The only money i think i'll loose if i sell it is the money i've spent on it but if all the little problems and faults are solved then it will be worth at least a little bit more...
I just got one problem... i dont think i can sell it i love it so much!!!!!
The only money i think i'll loose if i sell it is the money i've spent on it but if all the little problems and faults are solved then it will be worth at least a little bit more...
I just got one problem... i dont think i can sell it i love it so much!!!!!
Griff values will always be tied to Chimaera ones - there's only so much extra people will pay for what's effectively the same car.
I think it won't be long before all good examples of 'modern' TVRs will go up in the UK as cars are leaving the island left, right and centre - eventually all proper cars left will pretty much remain in the same hands, which also means prices in mainland Europe will stabilise.
I think it won't be long before all good examples of 'modern' TVRs will go up in the UK as cars are leaving the island left, right and centre - eventually all proper cars left will pretty much remain in the same hands, which also means prices in mainland Europe will stabilise.
If you check out this Italian TVR website you will find an updated listing of current average British and European prices for the modern TVR's.
http://tvrblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/register-of-tv...
also http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Very interesting reading and great work by Mr Seno.
Some of the trends appear to be a bit shocking at first glance such as the Tuscan Spiders (convertibles) but when you consider that there are so few available for sale, it only takes one "bargain" to realy hit the average price. (I got my bargain last year).
It obviously doesnt give you the long term outlook but is still valuable information.
Read a recent flight magazine article about a German rare car dealer. He listed the 10 best investment cars, sorry no TVR's but then he deals with a lot of wealthy Americans.
Values would radically change if the US decided that, as no-longer produced cars, TVR's were acceptible for "collectors" import. ( I'm sure Mr Leno would want to add the odd Sag or Tuscan to his collection).
I have met a number of North American TVR Club members who have told me they would love to get their hands on my Mk2 Tuscan Convertible and cant believe the low prices in the UK.
http://tvrblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/register-of-tv...
also http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Very interesting reading and great work by Mr Seno.
Some of the trends appear to be a bit shocking at first glance such as the Tuscan Spiders (convertibles) but when you consider that there are so few available for sale, it only takes one "bargain" to realy hit the average price. (I got my bargain last year).
It obviously doesnt give you the long term outlook but is still valuable information.
Read a recent flight magazine article about a German rare car dealer. He listed the 10 best investment cars, sorry no TVR's but then he deals with a lot of wealthy Americans.
Values would radically change if the US decided that, as no-longer produced cars, TVR's were acceptible for "collectors" import. ( I'm sure Mr Leno would want to add the odd Sag or Tuscan to his collection).
I have met a number of North American TVR Club members who have told me they would love to get their hands on my Mk2 Tuscan Convertible and cant believe the low prices in the UK.
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