Global warming just isn't working!!
Discussion
slowtypa said:
Global warming? Just look out side.
Ray
It's not global warming any more. It's Climate Change now. Did it look like this last year? No. Climate change see. Stop burning oil.Ray
It's the last leap of faith that bothers me. I'm happy to accept that storms etc are getting more frequent and a bit worse. But the jump to "Well it must be our fault, look at the weather"... Thats a tricky one they never quite explain in a way I can grasp.
If you want to confuse the unwashed masses then just pop on "An Inconvenient Truth" followed by "The Great Global Warming Swindle" and watch them try to work it out ... both are as biased as each other but in opposite directions.
My own opinion on it is that we (as a species) overestimate our own significance and are getting a bit "King Canute"ish in our bullish attitude to our own dominance over everything around us. It keeps the knuckle dragging Sun readership from actually realising that in the short term we have far more worrying things that we can do something about to worry about whilst the politicians (who won't be in power when the time comes that someone is held accountable for their actions) make it look like they're doing the caring thing. It's all complete tosh!
Sure - we're disposing of far too much and that is something that we should be addressing but to do that we'd actually have to get off our lazy arses and do something ourselves whereas it's much easier to bleat about some obscure concept that no-one understands which is labelled as "Carbon Footprint" and which no-one can actually really do that much in themselves to alter so it ends up being someone elses problem and we can sit back and smugly feel superior without actually doing anything more than buying new lightbulbs...
No-one seems to realise that as a species we're here for no more than a brief moment - a good (comic) example I was once told was of two Mayflies sitting on the branch of a huge oak tree ... one says to the other "I hear that these things grow from a tiny acorn." to which the other replies "Don't be so stupid - I've been sat here all my life and it hasn't grown at all"
Climate changes - fact - whether we have made any kind of appreciable difference to that is open to debate but if we have then I suspect it's to a much *MUCH* lesser degree than we would ever want to acknowledge. Personally I look forward to where I live becoming seafront property.
Phil
My own opinion on it is that we (as a species) overestimate our own significance and are getting a bit "King Canute"ish in our bullish attitude to our own dominance over everything around us. It keeps the knuckle dragging Sun readership from actually realising that in the short term we have far more worrying things that we can do something about to worry about whilst the politicians (who won't be in power when the time comes that someone is held accountable for their actions) make it look like they're doing the caring thing. It's all complete tosh!
Sure - we're disposing of far too much and that is something that we should be addressing but to do that we'd actually have to get off our lazy arses and do something ourselves whereas it's much easier to bleat about some obscure concept that no-one understands which is labelled as "Carbon Footprint" and which no-one can actually really do that much in themselves to alter so it ends up being someone elses problem and we can sit back and smugly feel superior without actually doing anything more than buying new lightbulbs...
No-one seems to realise that as a species we're here for no more than a brief moment - a good (comic) example I was once told was of two Mayflies sitting on the branch of a huge oak tree ... one says to the other "I hear that these things grow from a tiny acorn." to which the other replies "Don't be so stupid - I've been sat here all my life and it hasn't grown at all"
Climate changes - fact - whether we have made any kind of appreciable difference to that is open to debate but if we have then I suspect it's to a much *MUCH* lesser degree than we would ever want to acknowledge. Personally I look forward to where I live becoming seafront property.
Phil
Edited by Bassfiend on Wednesday 6th January 11:40
Bassfiend said:
Excellent post
I totally agree the arrogance of 'man' as a species is limitless.
When you consider that only 0.028% of the world's atmosphere is CO2 (the great polluter
) and we contribute just 0.28% of that 0.028% explain to me how that is effecting the massive machine that is our planet that could wipe us out in a couple of months if it needed to..... Link to graph showing composition of atmosphere is here
If you're interested in more facts then click on this link here
Is it not just the cycle of the planet this was happing 10 of thousands of years ago before use humans were on the scene so i doubt out industry and cars are making any little dent in this natural cycle and i bet the blamed those dinosaurs poo on the last "climate change" looks like its going to be a ice age soon not melt down 
Basically because we have a conscious grasp of life and death and of our own mortality within a timeframe I think "we" (as a species) need to feel that we're actually able to influence those things that happen around us when in reality we're just hanging onto the same piece of rock as everything else here is...
Phil
Phil
slowtypa said:
Global warming? Just look out side.
Ray
Technically, the overall heating of the planet is supposedly causing the ice caps to melt. The melt water will then cool the gulf stream, causing our climate to become more like that of the other countries that are on a similar latitude to the UK. Ray
Dunno if it's true, but that's what I saw on a Horizon programme once.
TVR653X said:
slowtypa said:
Global warming? Just look out side.
Ray
Technically, the overall heating of the planet is supposedly causing the ice caps to melt. The melt water will then cool the gulf stream, causing our climate to become more like that of the other countries that are on a similar latitude to the UK. Ray
Dunno if it's true, but that's what I saw on a Horizon programme once.
What made me chuckle is NASA said last year that all the planets in the Solar system have increased by 1 degrees C. Now if that is the case is the fact our planet heating up us or the sun?
daveparry said:
Having watched both of the films/programs that Bassfiend is talking about i agree that they do in fact come from both ends of the spectrum and therefore ballance each other out they unfortunately didn't get the same "air time"
BTW I have copies of both if anyone is interested ...Phil
Bassfiend said:
If you want to confuse the unwashed masses then just pop on "An Inconvenient Truth" followed by "The Great Global Warming Swindle" and watch them try to work it out ... both are as biased as each other but in opposite directions.
My own opinion on it is that we (as a species) overestimate our own significance and are getting a bit "King Canute"ish in our bullish attitude to our own dominance over everything around us. It keeps the knuckle dragging Sun readership from actually realising that in the short term we have far more worrying things that we can do something about to worry about whilst the politicians (who won't be in power when the time comes that someone is held accountable for their actions) make it look like they're doing the caring thing. It's all complete tosh!
Sure - we're disposing of far too much and that is something that we should be addressing but to do that we'd actually have to get off our lazy arses and do something ourselves whereas it's much easier to bleat about some obscure concept that no-one understands which is labelled as "Carbon Footprint" and which no-one can actually really do that much in themselves to alter so it ends up being someone elses problem and we can sit back and smugly feel superior without actually doing anything more than buying new lightbulbs...
No-one seems to realise that as a species we're here for no more than a brief moment - a good (comic) example I was once told was of two Mayflies sitting on the branch of a huge oak tree ... one says to the other "I hear that these things grow from a tiny acorn." to which the other replies "Don't be so stupid - I've been sat here all my life and it hasn't grown at all"
Climate changes - fact - whether we have made any kind of appreciable difference to that is open to debate but if we have then I suspect it's to a much *MUCH* lesser degree than we would ever want to acknowledge. Personally I look forward to where I live becoming seafront property.
Phil
nicely put. My own opinion on it is that we (as a species) overestimate our own significance and are getting a bit "King Canute"ish in our bullish attitude to our own dominance over everything around us. It keeps the knuckle dragging Sun readership from actually realising that in the short term we have far more worrying things that we can do something about to worry about whilst the politicians (who won't be in power when the time comes that someone is held accountable for their actions) make it look like they're doing the caring thing. It's all complete tosh!
Sure - we're disposing of far too much and that is something that we should be addressing but to do that we'd actually have to get off our lazy arses and do something ourselves whereas it's much easier to bleat about some obscure concept that no-one understands which is labelled as "Carbon Footprint" and which no-one can actually really do that much in themselves to alter so it ends up being someone elses problem and we can sit back and smugly feel superior without actually doing anything more than buying new lightbulbs...
No-one seems to realise that as a species we're here for no more than a brief moment - a good (comic) example I was once told was of two Mayflies sitting on the branch of a huge oak tree ... one says to the other "I hear that these things grow from a tiny acorn." to which the other replies "Don't be so stupid - I've been sat here all my life and it hasn't grown at all"
Climate changes - fact - whether we have made any kind of appreciable difference to that is open to debate but if we have then I suspect it's to a much *MUCH* lesser degree than we would ever want to acknowledge. Personally I look forward to where I live becoming seafront property.
Phil
Edited by Bassfiend on Wednesday 6th January 11:40
When you start the argument of man made climate change - the first question asked must be..
1) Does the number of human beings increasing 3 fold in the last 70 years matter..
Answer must be yes - so the harsh reality must to reduce numbers ..
Famine is natural - let it take it's natural course. If we offer aid then it must be with ties to contraception and the snip etc..
1) Does the number of human beings increasing 3 fold in the last 70 years matter..
Answer must be yes - so the harsh reality must to reduce numbers ..
Famine is natural - let it take it's natural course. If we offer aid then it must be with ties to contraception and the snip etc..
rev-erend said:
When you start the argument of man made climate change - the first question asked must be..
1) Does the number of human beings increasing 3 fold in the last 70 years matter..
Answer must be yes - so the harsh reality must to reduce numbers ..
Famine is natural - let it take it's natural course. If we offer aid then it must be with ties to contraception and the snip etc..
There are 2 real options.1) Does the number of human beings increasing 3 fold in the last 70 years matter..
Answer must be yes - so the harsh reality must to reduce numbers ..
Famine is natural - let it take it's natural course. If we offer aid then it must be with ties to contraception and the snip etc..
1)Cut the population to a sustainable level. This is a naturally occurring feature of any population and will happen the hard way through food limitations (mass starvation), or the easy way, stop breeding so much (remember, flies spread disease, keep yours closed).
2)Go hell for leather with the space program and stop fighting among ourselves over insignificant bits of this small piece or rock we're currently on.
2 would be nice. But I suspect 1 will be the final solution.
rev-erend said:
When you start the argument of man made climate change - the first question asked must be..
1) Does the number of human beings increasing 3 fold in the last 70 years matter..
Answer must be yes - so the harsh reality must to reduce numbers ..
Famine is natural - let it take it's natural course. If we offer aid then it must be with ties to contraception and the snip etc..
I agree. It annoys me, slightly, when we send tons of aid to countries, so they they can breed and breed, and then end up in the same situation. 1) Does the number of human beings increasing 3 fold in the last 70 years matter..
Answer must be yes - so the harsh reality must to reduce numbers ..
Famine is natural - let it take it's natural course. If we offer aid then it must be with ties to contraception and the snip etc..
The one I really love is the concept of a company / country making a payment to offset their carbon emissions...
It's basically an emotive subject that is easy for the treehugginglentileatingsoapdodgingdoogooders to back up with "but if we don't then what about the children?" - disputing it appears to be automatically taken as meaning you don't give a sh*t. Personally I think we'd be far better off as a group of individuals doing something that actually affects the amount of waste that we produce (and therefore drop into landfills) which would have knock on effects that would ripple back through to reducing packaging and transportation which basically gets the same results but for a much better reason - the problem is that we are inherently lazy and "global warming" is this huge thing that individuals feel that they can't do anything about but they feel that the government - which is made up of people who are simply "the same as us" (eurgh!) - can.
Too much gets lumped under the "climate change" umbrella for my liking and if you don't agree with the unthinking "tit & football" crowd then you're regarded as being a heathen or heretic.
It was bad enough that the vehicle scrappage scheme was introduced to public announcements that it was to take old and "poluting" vehicles off the road, however, the vehicles to which it has been applied would appear to be mainly vehicles that are already equipped with catalytic convertors and therefore in theory should be "green". It does however appear to fit the demographic of allowing those people that would normally not consider buying a new car (because they can't quite afford one) and so would normally have an older secondhand car that they would replace with another not-so-old secondhand car to be able to look at being able to afford a new (albeit possibly smaller) car under the scrappage scheme rather than scrapping their old car and getting another seconhand one. Hmmm ... that sounds awfully like the government using our taxes to try to stimulate the economy rather than actually do something "green".
I was quite amused to be told by a friend a week or so ago of the new government scheme for the scrappage and upgrading of double glazing - yes, it seems that a well known double glazing company are offering a £2,000 "scrappage discount" if you remove your old inefficient double glazing and get their new super-duper units installed instead (* subject to minimum purchase value). Now, it seems odd that none of the other companies are doing this (if it's a government scheme), no? But lets think about it - double glazing is one of those "high profit" businesses and so other companies are able to do great deals - "50% off" or "Buy One - Get One Free" - this company are just doing a "£2,000 off our normal prices when you spend over a minimum value" ... so that would be just a promotion wrapped up to look to the brain-dead like an eco scheme then...
Phil
It's basically an emotive subject that is easy for the treehugginglentileatingsoapdodgingdoogooders to back up with "but if we don't then what about the children?" - disputing it appears to be automatically taken as meaning you don't give a sh*t. Personally I think we'd be far better off as a group of individuals doing something that actually affects the amount of waste that we produce (and therefore drop into landfills) which would have knock on effects that would ripple back through to reducing packaging and transportation which basically gets the same results but for a much better reason - the problem is that we are inherently lazy and "global warming" is this huge thing that individuals feel that they can't do anything about but they feel that the government - which is made up of people who are simply "the same as us" (eurgh!) - can.
Too much gets lumped under the "climate change" umbrella for my liking and if you don't agree with the unthinking "tit & football" crowd then you're regarded as being a heathen or heretic.
It was bad enough that the vehicle scrappage scheme was introduced to public announcements that it was to take old and "poluting" vehicles off the road, however, the vehicles to which it has been applied would appear to be mainly vehicles that are already equipped with catalytic convertors and therefore in theory should be "green". It does however appear to fit the demographic of allowing those people that would normally not consider buying a new car (because they can't quite afford one) and so would normally have an older secondhand car that they would replace with another not-so-old secondhand car to be able to look at being able to afford a new (albeit possibly smaller) car under the scrappage scheme rather than scrapping their old car and getting another seconhand one. Hmmm ... that sounds awfully like the government using our taxes to try to stimulate the economy rather than actually do something "green".
I was quite amused to be told by a friend a week or so ago of the new government scheme for the scrappage and upgrading of double glazing - yes, it seems that a well known double glazing company are offering a £2,000 "scrappage discount" if you remove your old inefficient double glazing and get their new super-duper units installed instead (* subject to minimum purchase value). Now, it seems odd that none of the other companies are doing this (if it's a government scheme), no? But lets think about it - double glazing is one of those "high profit" businesses and so other companies are able to do great deals - "50% off" or "Buy One - Get One Free" - this company are just doing a "£2,000 off our normal prices when you spend over a minimum value" ... so that would be just a promotion wrapped up to look to the brain-dead like an eco scheme then...
Phil
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